Ryoken's Guide to Rust Treatment and Bodywork 101

[Chief Brody]

in addition to the questions above, what type of primer should I be using at this point...the self etching or the high build or some other primer....I was scared to use the zinc chromate because you said the duraglas doesn't like it.

what should the consistency of the filler be as I am spreading it? It seem too dry to me...but I am afraid to put less hardener in it becase the last time it never dried...

and what grit paper should I be blocking and cutting the filler with? Can I use the random orbit or do I need to block sand it?

 

[ryoken]

well, I'm not even sure where your at, where you putting glazing putty right on the duraglass?

it sounds to me like your expecting to apply it, and barely sand it... thats not bodywork bud, ya gotta work..

raw steel, duraglass, and yes you do the whole thing, and yes it should be high, get it all covered roughly, then lightly drag the spreader back and forth a few times till it's relatively smooth.. but yes, you may have a spreader edge here and there... you shouldn't have big voids.. just lightly drag the spreader back and forth over the area till it fills itself in...

then your ripping with 36 on a block... cross block till it's flat.... blow out to show any voids or pinholes.... then take your gold and do the same thing... mix it, hit the small void stuff, hard cross-dragged.. then put a very thin coat over the whole thing.. again, block with 36.. at this point you should be pretty perfect.. if no lows, pinholes, etc.. final sand with 80... blow off... prime..... once dry, squeegie thin glaze on sand scratches, etc.. wetsand with 180 to 220... reprime...

 

[ryoken]

in addition to the questions above, what type of primer should I be using at this point...the self etching or the high build or some other primer....I was scared to use the zinc chromate because you said the duraglas doesn't like it.

what should the consistency of the filler be as I am spreading it? It seem too dry to me...but I am afraid to put less hardener in it becase the last time it never dried...

and what grit paper should I be blocking and cutting the filler with? Can I use the random orbit or do I need to block sand it?

zinc on surrounding bare steel... fill primer on the bodywork/whole thing...

again.. you need to work fast with filler.. mix the can.. dole out some... add hardener... stir thoroughly in.. it should be say, the consistency of peanut butter.. the second it starts changing from that consistency it's too late... the whole process should under 5 minutes, a minute to mix and a couple minutes to apply... it should not be any "drier" when your smoothing it out, then when you mixed it...


you can rough cut it down close with the machine, then final crossblock the whole thing with a block and 36... you should see your high and low spots by the crosscut of the block sanding...

 

[ryoken]

see, this is why I have a killer compressor and multiple inline sanders...

time/muscle savers... but i've had plenty of hand block sanding over the yrs...

 

[Chief Brody]

well, I'm not even sure where your at, where you putting glazing putty right on the duraglass?

Yes..the two stage glazing on top of the duraglas

it sounds to me like your expecting to apply it, and barely sand it... thats not bodywork bud, ya gotta work..

It's not a "I don't want to work hard" issue, it is that I thought the idea was to put the filler only as necessary, as thin as possible...and to never, never "build" with filler. So that when I sand it off I am looking at mostly bare metal and only spots of filler....however, the top of the bedrail is not flat by any means, so when I sand it there are small "dimples" where the rust holes are. If it is ok to lay a thick layer of filler across the top and create a flat surface on that, then I just need to know that it is ok to do that and that becomes my plan.

raw steel, duraglass, and yes you do the whole thing, and yes it should be high, get it all covered roughly, then lightly drag the spreader back and forth a few times till it's relatively smooth.. but yes, you may have a spreader edge here and there... you shouldn't have big voids.. just lightly drag the spreader back and forth over the area till it fills itself in......

So far, by the time I get to a second swipe, it is getting "tacky" and sticky and causes more imperfections.

then your ripping with 36 on a block... cross block till it's flat.... blow out to show any voids or pinholes.... then take your gold and do the same thing... mix it, hit the small void stuff, hard cross-dragged.. then put a very thin coat over the whole thing.. again, block with 36.. at this point you should be pretty perfect.. if no lows, pinholes, etc.. final sand with 80... blow off... prime..... once dry, squeegie thin glaze on sand scratches, etc.. wetsand with 180 to 220... reprime...

I am not sure how to handle the corner where the top of the rail and the inside edge of the rail meet. Am I to fill both of these at the same time or only do one at a time? It's pretty hard so far to get a perfect edge along the inside top corner of the rail.

 

[ryoken]

Yes..the two stage glazing on top of the duraglas



It's not a "I don't want to work hard" issue, it is that I thought the idea was to put the filler only as necessary, as thin as possible...and to never, never "build" with filler. So that when I sand it off I am looking at mostly bare metal and only spots of filler....however, the top of the bedrail is not flat by any means, so when I sand it there are small "dimples" where the rust holes are. If it is ok to lay a thick layer of filler across the top and create a flat surface on that, then I just need to know that it is ok to do that and that becomes my plan.


So far, by the time I get to a second swipe, it is getting "tacky" and sticky and causes more imperfections.



I am not sure how to handle the corner where the top of the rail and the inside edge of the rail meet. Am I to fill both of these at the same time or only do one at a time? It's pretty hard so far to get a perfect edge along the inside top corner of the rail.

semi start over. rip it enough with the 36 or grinder to get the majority of glazing putty out and recoat.. your not building.. it will end up with what it needs when your done blocking it... get to bare metal in a spot, move, that area is where it needs to be... it sounds like your trying to drag it hard or something... a skim coat dude, I'm not sure how else to tell you.. you shouldn't have any low spots where the rust dimples are.. it's duraglass, sh*ts plenty thick.... one application should be plenty thick...

yes, you can do the top then inside edge, or vice versa.. the metal corners should be hit last when sanding, as thats your guide.... in all reality, you should be able to have a perfect right angle at the corner when do with your filler, then at the very end, round it off with the block...

gotta go dude, i'm late as he!! now....

 

[ryoken]

alright running out the door, just wanted to say it sounds like you've gone from one extreme to the other with the hardener... if it's rock hard in 15 minutes, and grapping the spreader right after putting it on, it's too much... happy medium between the 2...

luck, i'll check in tonight...

 

[Chief Brody]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Duraglas does not like me. I mixed up a batch the size of a baseball and ran a ribbon of hardener from one side to the other...must have been 4 inches long....
There it is sitting on my bedrail one hour later and it is not dry...it is still mushy

 

[ryoken]

take a heat gun/hair drier to it, warm it up a bunch, then let it cool... remember too, a fan blowing across it will help drying immensely....

dry time for duraglass will usually be an hr to 10 hr's depending on percentage of hardener.... I usually like to see it dry in an hr to 4 hrs.... overnight is kinda borderline low mekp...

 

[Chief Brody]

I didn't have enough duraglas to finish, so I scraped it off and went and bought a gallon of Rage Gold...I love the way it spreads.
I guess I'll see how I like it when I go to sand it

It's ok to criticize...just don't laugh:

 

[ryoken]

remember the smoother, thinner, FINER the filler, the creamier and easier it spreads, levels out... at the trade-off of strength...

that's fine.... shoulda done a couple long light drags along the length, but it'll work, just a bit more sanding...

now do you understand WHY someone may cheesegrate filler? which, btw, i never mentioned, MUST be done PRIOR to it fully hardening.. I can explain the test for it to anyone who's curious..

yeah, just machine some of that out, then go at it with the block... it must ALL have crosscut sand scratches from the block when done. if your seeing shiney, or machine sanding, the area either needs more sanding, or is a low spot....

now, another i may not have mentioned, not knowing how involved i was gonna have to get here was when/if you have a void or low spot that needs to be refilled, it's best the nip it out with a grinder to remove the shine.. give the next coat something to bite to...

 

[ryoken]

also.... don't sand the curve to the qrter initially... crossblock the top till it's flat.... the final thing you do is crosscut sand the curve.....

 

[Chief Brody]

Here's what I ended up with after hand block sanding....I think I have some high spots in the middle near the rear:

 

[ryoken]

take a ballpeen hammer, tho I'd be using a body hammer, and tap down those center high spots, just a bit... rough them up with a grinder for skim...

you can try to tap down those spots by the rail edge, but they may not move much... but tap em, then hit the metal a bit with the grinder... they will be a good guide indicator when you sand the second coat...... as soon as you see them getting bare, move on...

them skim it.. i would suggest hitting the majority again, predrag the reworked spots, then hit most if it with a smoother, thinner coat then the first.... you'll find it easier to sand if the whole thing is coated, as opposed to spots here and there... that can be done, but it tends to be tough for beginners..

you'll see where your cutting thru into the older filler.. there'll be a color difference, due to different hardener amounts.. so a good portion of the second coat will be removed.. but as you get thru to the old filler here and there, thats your indicator to move on...

remember to save a bit of removal for 80 grit.. just enough to get the majority of 36 scratches out.... I would say you'll be right in the area you are now depth-wise... oh, in addition to regrinding those high spots, you may wanna open those ones up front on the curve a bit... a nasty 24/36 grit disc should open those up a bit to accept filler on the skim coat better...

 

[ryoken]

btw, good job, you're getting there...... ya certainly worked harder than me today.. i gave the weedwacker a 1/2 dozen pulls, didn't start and ate 84 sausage, onion and peppers sammich's.....

 

[Chief Brody]

How do you get a longer smooth application? When I load the spreader it only goes so far then I have to reload again, leaving a dent where I start the 2nd stroke...

and trying to feather that paint on the outside...man that paint is tough...doesn't want to feather, just wants to give way to the primer underneath...cant seem to get a smooth edge anywhere with the paint still on...doesn't look like I am going to be able to sand the paint and prime over it...

 

[Chief Brody]

remember the smoother, thinner, FINER the filler, the creamier and easier it spreads, levels out... at the trade-off of strength...

I'm not so sure that the Duraglas they gave me wasn't real old...and had set on their shelf for years...they said they didn't think they had ever sold a can of it before...or maybe I just couldn't get the mix right on the hardener...

Those two big holes have All Metal as their base, and Duraglas almost to the top and now Rage Gold skimmed on the outside...

 

[Chief Brody]

How should I handle those "pits" that are on the curve...I think they filled, they look bad but I think they are smooth to the touch.
Do I just prime those and then fill them with glaze if there are any that show?
Also, did I ask you when or if I use a high build primer?

And those HF "rolok" disks work great...I can absolutely take my bed down to bare metal in no time with one of those if I want to...I did it to the laft rear bed where there is something that I saw that I won't bring up on this thread...I'll put it in another...although it might be related to this...it's one of those things I don't want to be anal about about and may just leave it as it is depending on how difficult it is to fix.

 

[ryoken]

I'm not so sure that the Duraglas they gave me wasn't real old...and had set on their shelf for years...they said they didn't think they had ever sold a can of it before...or maybe I just couldn't get the mix right on the hardener...

..

could be... it does dry out, especially once the cans be opened...

 

[ryoken]

How do you get a longer smooth application? When I load the spreader it only goes so far then I have to reload again, leaving a dent where I start the 2nd stroke...

and trying to feather that paint on the outside...man that paint is tough...doesn't want to feather, just wants to give way to the primer underneath...cant seem to get a smooth edge anywhere with the paint still on...doesn't look like I am going to be able to sand the paint and prime over it...

like i said, once you've coated the whole thing, lightly drag the spreader from one end to the other, over all applications to get it covered.. it's not like you put it on a 6 inch section, move on, and never hit that again... get the majority of it covered quickly and lightly drag the spreader over the whole thing, it should smooth out...

as to the feather, hit it with an orbital with some 180 or 220.... down into the paint a bit... you'll end up with fill primer 4 to 6" down onto the qrter... with a good prime coat, the featheredge should fill.. once you prime, look for scratches, the bad feather, etc do a thin glaze.. wet 220. reprime...