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Saying Good-bye to the 90 and Hello to the 72 Build. NEW:Hidden Exhaust

While trying to figure out the new mounts for the shocks. I discovered I have very little flex in the front.

It got me thinking that maybe I went the wrong direction on the build. :doah:

I used Tuff Countys 2" HD springs up front. The reason I went HD's is because of the Cad 500, Heavy winch bumper and winch.

I used the hillbilly garage method to check my flex. I hooked the cherry picker to the front frame horn and lifted it until the tire was off the ground. I measured from the top of the spring plate to the frame and it went down a ½”.

My original plan was not lift at all but I thought I would gain a little flex with the TC lift.

So I have spent the last 3 days reading every post on the 52” springs. I’m not sure I want go this route either.

My main reason are:

Body roll on the road through the corners. ( I drive it to the wheeling/racing locations)
And side hilling.

I want some front flex with little (2”) or no lift and a stable ride.

What about running 73-87 2” front TC lift springs? They are 47” long and have the same spring rate 495 as the 69-72 EZ rides 42”.
I could order Kerts B52 kit and move the rear spring hanger. They would be 5” shorter.

Or should I call dever or alcan and get a custom set?. But I would still prob have to move the mounts.
 
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I wouldn't expect you to get much flex by lifting the vehicle in that manner, you've left the lifted side of the axle hanging. If it were on an obstacle, the weight of the vehicle would be affecting both springs and changing the amount of flex. Here, you have no force working on the tire hanging in the air.
 
90k5blaze said:
While trying to figure out the new mounts for the shocks. I discovered I have very little flex in the front.

It got me thinking that maybe I went the wrong direction on the build. :doah:

I used Tuff Countys 2" HD springs up front. The reason I went HD's is because of the Cad 500, Heavy winch bumper and winch.

I used the hillbilly garage method to check my flex. I hooked the cherry picker to the front frame horn and lifted it until the tire was off the ground. I measured from the top of the spring plate to the frame and it went down a ½”.

My original plan was not lift at all but I thought I would gain a little flex with the TC lift.

So I have spent the last 3 days reading every post on the 52” springs. I’m not sure I want go this route either.

My main reason are:

Body roll on the road through the corners. ( I drive it to the wheeling/racing locations)
And side hilling.

I want some front flex with little (2”) or no lift and a stable ride.

What about running 73-87 2” front TC lift springs? They are 47” long and have the same spring rate 495 as the 69-72 EZ rides 42”.
I could order Kerts B52 kit and move the rear spring hanger. They would be 5” shorter.

Or should I call dever or alcan and get a custom set?. But I would still prob have to move the mounts.
Click to expand...

I'd run Kert's BY52 kit, without relocating the shackle hanger and using the closer holes. Then use a stock 47 or 52" spring. I used a set of 52" springs, without relocating the shackle.

Problem is, this is still 4" of lift, but a heck of allot more capable.
 
I would like to see a guy take a set of 2.5" lift 47" springs, and swap the main leaf with that of a stock set of 52's. I thikn that would work out fine myself.
 
y5mgisi said:
I would like to see a guy take a set of 2.5" lift 47" springs, and swap the main leaf with that of a stock set of 52's. I thikn that would work out fine myself.
Click to expand...

So you would still be running a 52" pack, right? But the rest of the 47" pack would give it more stabilty (Less flex) since the springs would be shorter. :dunno:

As much as I think I went the wrong way on the suspension. I think I'm going to run it as built and see how it does. I can always take some springs out of the packs and if that don't work get the brackets from Kert and try the 47" 2" lift springs
 
Don't know if I missed it, you said in another thread you found a sweet deal on brake lines and parts? Did you post this elsewhere?
 
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No, the main leaf would be 52", the rest would be what came with the 2.5" lift springs. Giving you 2.5" lift but the basic characteristics of a 52" pack because of the long main leaf. I think the same thing could be accomplished by using a set of 2" LOWERING 52"s. If a stock set of 52's gives about 4"lift, then a set of 2" lowering 52's should net about 2" lift, with good flex.
 
Oh how i wish i could! When i do it im going to use the DIY B-52 front brackets so that i can leave the rear shackle in the stock location and have the axle in the stock location and still hopefully have a shackle angle kinda like /.
 
Been a little slow in here so I though I would add a little reading material and maybe start some discussion on my selection for Fuel Injection.

My build is also at a slow crawl. I’m waiting on my painter to free up some time. I don’t want to push him as he always gives me a great paint job and a sweet deal.

Here’s my motor specs. It is currently at the machine shop getting prepped. I asked Marty at MTS to help me put a motor package together. I wanted a good idle and some HP/Torque to sand drag with. This is what we came up with.

500 CI Caddy motor bored 30 over
9.3 -1 compression ratio,
Ported polished 76cc heads 2.19/1.84 valves
Cam specs are
.315 lobe .535 valve lift 112 LSA Cam is ground 4* advance so intake centerline is 108 and exhaust is 116
Duration @ .050 is 220 in and 226 ex
1.70 ratio rockers
MTS is estimating that I will have approx 450 HP and 550 TQ.
Peak torque RPM about 2800 (No more winding up the 350)
MSD stand alone dist with external coil.
Heads.jpg

manifold.JPG

rockers.JPG



Transmission is at the tranny shop getting built. I will do a separate write up on it when I pick it up. Lot’s of goodies in it…

Fuel system:

I will be running a Edelbrock performer manifold. Dual-plane design

I still haven’t decided on the fuel injection yet.

I put these in order how I have ranked them so far.

1. Retrotek/Professional Products http://www.professional-products.com/EFI_3.php or http://www.retrotekspeed.com/products/powerjection-iii/

Powerjection III (Claims to support up to 650 HP)
I am really leaning towards this setup. I like the plug and play features plus the abilty to also fine tune the parameters if desired. Less wiring and a Wideband O2 Sensor. The only thing I don’t like is the ECM is internal to the unit and replacement parts for the trail.
Cost Around $1600

2. Affordable Fuel Injection http://www.affordable-fuel-injection.com/

Builds a nice kit with all stock parts and ECM. Would be using a 454 TBI unit bored out for more CFM.. Pros: Easily attainable parts Cons: More wiring less management, I would have to burn a new chip for any changes,

Cost is around $1200

3. FAST/Fuel Air Spark http://www.fuelairspark.com/ezefi/default.asp
Almost like the Powerjection but not as programmable. Costs a little bit more as well.

Cost $1900

I know there a lot more options out there and some are cheaper. I don’t want to mess with JY pulls or making my own harness and piecing parts together. Megasquirt and others have there place, But not on my build. I want something plug and go. I haven’t wheeled in over a year and it’s time to get going.

Heads.jpg

manifold.JPG

rockers.JPG
 
Don't forget the Holley Commander 950 system.....around $1600.

It's a bit more capable than the FAST system (you can't do electronic timing maps with FAST on the EZ-EFI solution).

There is another system coming from Holley in the next couple of months that will be more like the EZ-EFI and RetroTek systems. It will do the whole "learning" thing so you don't need to program any of the normal maps.

I'd avoid anything that needs a chip burned unless you plan to buy a chip burner yourself. I've seen too many stories about people who didn't get the chip "quite right" and had to keep going back for more changes, send new logs to the vendor, etc. etc. That defeats the whole purpose IMHO if you want a user-programmable and flexible system.

ALSO: Take a look at some of the discussion forums (non-CK5) about Retrotek Speed. I was really stoked about using their kit, but there is quite a bit of negative stuff out there from people who have used the system on hotrods, etc. Maybe a lot of that was "early adopter" issues, but there seemed to be some issues that weren't trivial, so just make sure you know what you're getting into BEFORE you send them (or any vendor) almost $2000 of your hard-earned money. :thinking:

:usaflag:
 
Greg72 said:
Don't forget the Holley Commander 950 system.....around $1600.

There is another system coming from Holley in the next couple of months that will be more like the EZ-EFI and RetroTek systems. It will do the whole "learning" thing so you don't need to program any of the normal maps.

ALSO: Take a look at some of the discussion forums (non-CK5) about Retrotek Speed. I was really stoked about using their kit, but there is quite a bit of negative stuff out there from people who have used the system on hotrods, etc. Maybe a lot of that was "early adopter" issues, but there seemed to be some issues that weren't trivial, so just make sure you know what you're getting into BEFORE you send them (or any vendor) almost $2000 of your hard-earned money. :thinking:

:usaflag:
Click to expand...

I stayed away from the Holley because I read a lot of bad stuff on their setups. More was related to their Projection. So maybe they warrant a closer look.
Their Commander kit comes with a narrow-band O2 sensor. Not sure if you can upgrade to a Wideband one. You can get the Holley Commander 900cfm model with 4 85Lb injectors for the 450-600 HP range or 4 75LB injectors for the 375 -525 HP Range. Both flowing in the 900 CFM range The Retrotek has 4 62Lb injectors. :thinking: Time to find some injector charts to see what I will need based on the heads/cam I'm running and the Cubic Inches..

Not much out there yet pertaining to the new Holley Avenger EFI. Don't want to be one of the first one to run it.

Most of the complaints I found on the retrotek were from pre 2007. I did stumble onto some corvette and camaro sites that had some very positive posts and they were all in the 2009 to current range. :dunno:

I still have a few weeks to decide.

In case any one asks why I'm not considering MPFI.
Two reasons.
1. There is no MPFI manifold yet for the Cad 500, I could weld in bungs on mine. No. $$$
2. I read that TBI actually produces more lower end TQ than MPFI, something about the injectors being further away and being able mix with the air better.
 
Wideband is available on the Commander system.

Personally, the idea of a computer doing the initial setup is nice but the engineer in me always wants the option to get into the maps to see what's going on and make changes if I choose to...

From what I've read the Commander is a bit wonky to set up, but it's been around forever so it's "unusual" setup quirks are well understood. I'm with you, I'd rather use an older, well-sorted solution than be the guinea pig for some brand new system that nobody has seen before.

:usaflag:
 
I'll take a fresh look at that manual.... I did like the concept when I first saw it.

Do they still do a "return-less" fuel system? I know that some people were suspicious about that method and preferred a more conventional fuel return system like all other EFI solution have/require. :thinking:


:usaflag:


EDIT: WOW! The software screenshots look a LOT nicer than last time I saw them.... is there a provision for doing a timing map for the distributor timing? I scanned quickly but didn't see anything there...
 
Greg72 said:
I'll take a fresh look at that manual.... I did like the concept when I first saw it.

Do they still do a "return-less" fuel system? I know that some people were suspicious about that method and preferred a more conventional fuel return system like all other EFI solution have/require. :thinking:


:usaflag:
Click to expand...

I did read something on it. But a quick look on thier site is just a video for the SEMA debut of the Fuel on Demand package which is needed.

I updated my tank already so I have the vents and return already done.
 
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