School me on lockers please...

[Russell]

So, just finished watching a video of my truck and myself in an offroad competition this last fall, and found a few glaring problems with my truck that need to be fixed for the next season.

First and by far the worst problem was with my steering. Man that push pull was terrible My tires were aimed different directions half the time That's been fixed with a crossover / hi steer setup now

Second major problem is that I can't get any wheel speed with the NV3500. I can't shift it fast enough that I don't loose boost when catching another gear, which results in a boggy / black smoke belching 6.2L which midaswell be N/A. I am going to install a 4L80e to fix this problem.

Third problem, which you guys can help me decide on, is my lockers. My rear is a gov-lok. I'd say it works about 85% of the time, and when it does slip, it doesn't let go entirely, but ratchets a bit. The front, however, is totally useless. It has a powerlok or something similar up there, and any time I have a tire with some traction, it slips so bad that I'd midaswell be running an open diff.

So, I am planning to re-gear to 5.13s here right quick, and I want to replace my lockers while I am at it. The options for the front Chevy D60 (35 spline) include a Detroit or a spool. The options for the rear include either a detroit, sticking with a gov-lok, or installing an ARB. The truck has OBA already, so supplying air for the locker is no trouble at all.

So, what are the advantages of running a detroit over a spool up front? How about the rear? I do run the truck in the winter on pavement, and I do drive it on the pavement very frequently during the summer, which is the justification behind running a selectable locker in the rear.

 

[BoondocK5]

Sounds like you allready know the answers to your questions.

On that note, I am willing to accept all the quirkiness(is that a word?) of running a spool in both front and rear axles, on and off pavement.
So I'm probably not helping you any.

 

[76zimmer]

If your considering an ARB in the back I say go for it up front too, with the street driving it will be a welcome option to unlock.

 

[K5dreamer]

i say keep the NV3500, i absolutely hate my TH400 for its shift points and lack of driveability. and the 4L80 is just a TH400 with an overdrive gear. Are you familar with powershifting? you can keep your foot in the throttle and depress the clutch to change gears, let the cluch back out, all while never having let off the gas. keeps the rpms up, and the engine in boost.

 

[Stomis]

ARB in the back, detroit in the front. If your feeling spendy go ARBs front and rear...

Budget minded option would be Detroit rear and lockrite front.

And btw your power issue is the 6.2. I hate to say it. Its a great motor but not for racing.

 

[Russell]

No sir! Not good for racing at all

I've tried powershifting the NV3500 before, but all I get is a wonderful grinding noise, haha! She just won't do it. I suspect my clutch doesn't fully disengage, but there is nothing I can do about it with it being a fully bled hydro clutch.

Does a spool really affect steering that badly? How do people here feel about the reliablity of an ARB? I've heard plenty of complaints about them failing at the least opportune times due to air leaks or whatnot

 

[sweetk30]

fyi on the traction device in the front now.

trac-loc is a light duty unit. not the best for our big trucks. pic #1 and look behind the side gears for clutches. other wise looks like a open carrier. no middle spring like a aburn or eaton posi.

power-loc is a heavy duty unit. works real good for our big tucks. pic #2 and is a 2 peice carrier . also its 50x50 power untill needed then ramps up to 75-80% bias of power as needed. you cant see the spiders like normal with the middle window not being in the carrier like open o trac-loc.

thay doth can be rebuilt for around 150. but the power-loc i have been told you can set them up tight with a extra clutch or 2 for almost full lock/spool type use.

if me and street drivin/snow drivin/comp use. i would go full selectable like arb air lockers as you have oba now. and you can then lock them in as needed. and also if you did a lockout setup for the switches then mabye you could run diffrent classes if you want and NOT beable to run the lockers and compete in the open diff classes if you can prove thay will be locked out. i dont know this for sure but a idea for you.

most arb air leaks i have read about are faulty install of the orings . thay say YOU GOT TO BE SUPER EASY AND CHECK THE INSTALL or thay will leak air. thay are a x ring realy not a std style oring. if you go to arb's web site you can read up on the install directions. or pirate has a nice 14ff install write up on the arb unit.


hope this info helps.

 

[jms]

... How do people here feel about the reliablity of an ARB? I've heard plenty of complaints about them failing at the least opportune times due to air leaks or whatnot

People here... I wouldn't know. With all the Rah Rah Detroit / Spool white noise, who can know?

I've had dual ARBs in the K5 since summer '03 (rear since '98). Zero regrets. Problems: fuses blown in the harness for no apparent reason, air leak at the compressor O-ring (not the O-rings in the diff). A few melted air lines over the years; one recently as my new exhaust is now in the way where the air line used to live, and the air line insisted to recapture that space... not. A blown compressor after 11 years of service (replaced with a new mini, on the trail, since I had a hunch this might happen). On the 10b front, I've broken a tooth of a spider gear (my ARB was the early 2-spider version. Didn't notice it until 4 months later; ARB was very helpful, and I got a rebuild kit for free. The current front D60 has an ARB.

The FJ40 has dual ARBs as well; installed by the PO about 6 months after they were introduced in the US. One blown fuse in 5 years of ownership, otherwise no issues - although that compressor sounds as if it's on it's last psi. But it's vintage 1989... and so are both lockers.

I can't recall having any one of those four ARBs not lock when called upon (the ARB harness fuse in my truck, and in the FJ40 would conveniently blow in parking lots ). My new axle build will get an ARB, too.

Differential O-ring problems seem to be very application-specific. A buddy of mine couldn't believe I drive my truck for 500 highway miles - he hangs with the Nissan crowd, and in those rear axles, street driving appears to be hard on diff O-rings... no such problems in a GM10b rear, my current D60 rear, or in the FJ40.

As for locker function: on one occasion, I had the lines crossed (after the on-trail compressor switch...), and ended up driving with the front locked for a while. That taught me never to put a spool in the front...

 

[blazinzuk]

As for locker function: on one occasion, I had the lines crossed (after the on-trail compressor switch...), and ended up driving with the front locked for a while. That taught me never to put a spool in the front...

This! Full hydro sure but you still lose steering ability, pure mud sure spools front and rear.

In a multipurpose rig a selectable is the way to go, in a multi facetted comp a front spool could only do harm unless your rig is set up to run it, I am talking buggy type of rigs

 

[yellowK20]

I vote Lockrite up front there pretty stout for the money, and they dont't self destruct when you break a hub or stub shaft like a detroit will.

if money wasn't a concern I'd say ARB front AND rear . think real hard about the 4L80E there about 1500-2000.00 to rebulid .

 

[folkenheath]

So, what are the advantages of running a detroit over a spool up front? How about the rear? I do run the truck in the winter on pavement, and I do drive it on the pavement very frequently during the summer, which is the justification behind running a selectable locker in the rear.

I am all about detroits, I love detroits, have one in front and back, but I would not run one in the front of a vehicle you are driving on icy roads. With that said, I don't have a problem with that at all with a detroit in the rear. So I say you will be happiest with a Detroit in the back (or keep the govloc if it still works) and a selectable up front. If I drive in 4WD on pavement with my detroit in the front, it wants to go every way but straight it seems. You can keep it straight but it's a constant chore. If you weren't using it in the winter on the road, I would say detroits front and back, I'd do it to mine again in a heartbeat. The detroit works awesome, you barely know it's there driving around, until you start to spin a tire and they both spin, always.

 

[72blazerguy]

I've run a detroit in the rear, truetrac in the front of my blazer for years. I would think seriously about putting a detroit in the front of anything that saw any icy highway use. I think the detroit is great off-road, but it always pulls to a side as soon as you start losing traction. Don't know about the front, but seems like it would be the same. If my only options for the front were spool or detroit, I would definitely take the detroit.

Why would you run the rear open and the front fully locked?

Have you considered an OX locker?

 

[Russell]

I figured locked up front as I can just unlock the hubs for steering, but didn't consider the thought of keeping it straight when I do pull it into 4x4 on the street.

I refuse to use an eaton e-locker, seen way too many people have trouble with them on the trail. How are the ox lockers for strength in a set of 1 tons? I've seen a few of them break in newer JKs

 

[4X4HIGH]

I would install a detroit in the rear and the ARB up front.

 

[DrkZide]

I'll probably end up going with ARB front and rear

 

[yellowK20]

I would install a detroit in the rear and the ARB up front.

I have this combo, but I haven't got to try them yet........axles are still sitting on the shop floor waiting to be installed in something

 

[gotblazers]

I would install a detroit in the rear and the ARB up front.

I read a while ago the opposite is actually more efficient for turning in tight offroad situations? When you disengage the rear the front detroit will pull the vehicle wherever the tires are pointed with minimal resistance from the rear in theory anyways. Thoughts?

 

[folkenheath]

I read a while ago the opposite is actually more efficient for turning in tight offroad situations? When you disengage the rear the front detroit will pull the vehicle wherever the tires are pointed with minimal resistance from the rear in theory anyways. Thoughts?

I disagree with this, I have ZERO issues with a detroit in the back, regardless of the situation. And if you get a twin stick it's more much more effective for tight turning than disengaging a differential. The detroit disengages itself in such a situation.

Also, running the opposite in the snow (on road) will be much worse, because the only time I have an issue with a detroit at all, is in the front in 4WD on the road, such as winter road driving.

I agree with 4x4HIGH as I mentioned above, detroit in the back, selectable up front for winter driving, OX or ARB, or whatever you choose. You could also run a truetrac in the front, but this will sacrifice traction in the rocks.

Now, if 4WD winter road driving is not an issue, then detroits front and back rule, easier turning offroad, maximum traction, and no tinkering with selectable switches or levers or buttons.

 

[blazin' j]

When you disengage the rear the front detroit will pull the vehicle wherever the tires are pointed with minimal resistance from the rear in theory anyways. Thoughts?

that theory goes out the window if ur in a low traction situation as ull have alot of torque steer up front and the front end tends to go where it wants...unless u have upgraded steering then its a lil easier...front detroit doesnt help turnin radius when in 4wd...

 

[bp71k5]

Does a spool really affect steering that badly?

Yes it does. Im using an elocker in front (ABR rear) and it's nearly impossible to turn the truck with it locked and on dirt road. If I'm on pavement, the steering pump just screams at me. You'de need hydro assist if you want to turn with the hubs locked.

How do people here feel about the reliablity of an ARB? I've heard plenty of complaints about them failing at the least opportune times due to air leaks or whatnot

I'm pretty happy with mine on the rear. It always locks when I've switched it on and it has been fine before and after my 1000 mile highway trip to Moab and back. Was a bit more predictable than the elocker. Still works great, no leaks.