Well, thanks for your input guys! I get paid tonight and will be placing an order for ARB lockers for both axles along with a set of 5.13 gears. That's gonna hurt the pocket book a bit haha
CK5
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School me on lockers please...
- Thread starter Russell
- Start date
i'm with Scott.. detroit out back, ARB up front... i'll run the front open till i can afford an ARB...
K5dreamer
1/2 ton status
will the G80 gov bomb from a 14bff fit in a D70HD?
Gonna add a vote for Detroit rear and ARB front. i went pretty much wherever I wanted in the snow with just the Detroit rear. The only advantage I see with a rear ARB is in a very icy sidehill. In that situation it's a crapshoot whether or not the truck will not slide sideways no matter what's inside the diff though.
Why not build a 700R-4? Better gearing and can easily be built to hold up behind the powerhouse the turbo'd 6.2 is. Plus you don't need a stand alone controller, and they eat less power than the TH400 or 4L80e.
Rene
Why not build a 700R-4? Better gearing and can easily be built to hold up behind the powerhouse the turbo'd 6.2 is. Plus you don't need a stand alone controller, and they eat less power than the TH400 or 4L80e.
Rene
One of the reasons I want an ARB rear is for cutting brakes to work, not really in the rocks in the dunes.
ARBS front and rear in the dunes would work very very well IMHO
I think you will be happy with your order.
On my Jimmy I want to run an ARB rear and some sort of limited slip up front
ARBS front and rear in the dunes would work very very well IMHO
I think you will be happy with your order.
On my Jimmy I want to run an ARB rear and some sort of limited slip up front
Eric the cutting brakes should work fine with a detroit if I am not mistaken, the outer wheel would disengage and turn faster, allowing the inner tire to remain stationary with the ring gear.
Were you thinking a truetrac for the front of your jimmy, or a clutch type posi like an eaton?
DrkZide
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So are most people liking the Detroits because they're automatic? From what I understand it's locked on throttle and open off throttle. So what if you're turning and accelerating?
K5dreamer
1/2 ton status
i believe detroits are locked all the time, unless you start to turn, and one wheel is forced faster than the other, at which point the diff unlocks to allow the wheels to turn at different speeds. once you start going strait again, it locks back up.
for me, its the most attractive option because its invisible. you lock it in and forget it. you dont have to remember to lock it, unlock it, lock it, unlock it, or route any cables, wiring, or air hose, no exposed bits to snag or break, it just does its thing. simple, bolt in, fire and forget.
for me, its the most attractive option because its invisible. you lock it in and forget it. you dont have to remember to lock it, unlock it, lock it, unlock it, or route any cables, wiring, or air hose, no exposed bits to snag or break, it just does its thing. simple, bolt in, fire and forget.
The detroit works like K5dreamer said, it's a matter of torque direction, not throttle position. Think of it like a ratchet with a cam as the flip lever. The ratchet is always on, it can only switch directions. The ratchet will never allow either tire to go in the opposite direction of the torque applied. The torque operates the cam to initiate which way the ratchet works. So under acceleration either tire can spin faster than the ring gear(not both, or the cam switches directions), but none of the tires can spin slower. So you have full power to both wheels, yet can turn around corners when you want without binding.
Under engine braking it will allow either tire to spin slower(not both), but none faster, because the torque is reversed (not wheel direction, but wheel torque is what "flips the ratchet lever").
So under power around a corner, you are driving the inside tire, the outside tire is freespinning faster. But the moment you apply too much power, the inside tire will spin, and once it catches up to the outside tire (very quick), it will lock together because it cannot let either tire spin slower than the ring gear. Under engine braking it's the opposite.
Make sense?
True to a point because I am almost always foot to the floor when trying said stupid fast turns, it works with a detroit but works better open, going to be a while though, ihave plenty of other crap to buy.
This from what I have seen I don't have cutting brakes yet
Not sure on the front 10 bolt LS yet
DrkZide
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Makes perfect sense once I read that a few times over (I'm a visual/hands on leaner). So why do you want to stay away from a Detroit in the front on Icy roads?
K5dreamer
1/2 ton status
well... i wont hazard a technical description of what happens because i havent a strong understanding...
but the general concensus is that on icy roads, detroits like to move sideways like a crab.. making it very difficult to control, in already hazardous conditions.
DrkZide
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Would the same be said for the rear then? I live in Denver so driving on icy roads in inevitable.
K5dreamer
1/2 ton status
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Two comments:
1. Ice has a low traction coefficient, but it's not zero. Yet, you can loose traction in a heartbeat. That's why on ice every little bit matters - very much contrary to your statement above.
2. It' great to see your enthusiasm for auto lockers, and for detroit lockers in particular. I'd say go for it if you want to, absolutely, but until you've driven with a Detroit (or any other locker, for that matter) in your own truck, maybe tone it down a bit?
K5dreamer
1/2 ton status
didnt realize i was typing in caps
like ive stated repeatedly, im no expert, thats why I ask you guys. Due in no small part to your advice, ive come to the realization that i neither need, nor want a detroit locked front diff. and a selectible diff is preferred due to the options it presents. However, i am a fan of simple, and youd be hard pressed to convince me that a selectable locker is a simpler, neater, easier install than an auto locker.
I was merely pointing out that several members in this thread, rene in particular, live in snowy conditions and commented that the detroit worked fine for them, that they could get "wherever [he] wanted with just the detroit rear", which i interpret as detroit rear, open front. And rene certainly lives in a colder, snowier, icyer place than i do.
Drkzide asked the same question i did in my other thread, i gave him the information you guys gave me, that the detroit front makes the truck "squirrely" and can make it crab to one side. He then asked about a detroit in the rear, to which i answered per Rene's comment. not speaking from my own limited experience at any point.
for the ice traction coefficient, i guess yes, i was generalizing, with black ice being the mental picture i had. which wouldnt apply to 100% of icy road conditions. my bad.
So i guess im confused if your offended by anything ive typed, but certainly apologize if i did so.
bp71k5
3/4 ton status
It's not that a Detroit is any better or worse than other lockers on ice. The point is that an open diff provides less opportunities for traction loss that causes loss of control. Open diffs actually help you in icy conditions by taking away power to a wheel when it looses traction.
The reason a selectable locker is better in this case is that it can be turn on or off depending on the conditions.
Here's a less technical example: When I was a kid, my friend had a 60-something mustang with a posi and it was a blast to drive because when you hammered down on the gas, both rear tires would break loose and create a pair of long black skid marks and piles of smoke as we slid down the street fishtailing all over the place. Good fun!
Now when I tried the same thing in my 78 station wagon, I could only get one tire to spin and only create a single (much shorter) skid mark. The thing also refused to do any kind of fishtailing and just went straight. No fun at all because it had an open differential!
Now change that example by adding in an icy road instead of dry pavement and imagine the possibilities. It's certainly not impossible to drive on ice with a locked axle, it's just somewhat easier to keep the vehicles movement under control at speeds that most people drive.
blazin' j
1/2 ton status
K5dreamer, I think he was referring to driving style...
I have no problem driving on ice with a detroit in the rear. It's very predictable and you know if you give it too much power or turn too fast the rear will start to slide out, but that can happen anyway, and in the rear it's very predictable and it's easy to drive straight, no problems.
The problem is in the front when in 4WD on the road(offroad it's no issue). By design the detroit has some backlash in it for the "cam" to work. And since the front is a steering axle, when you get on and off the gas and the detroit flips directions, it can cause it to pull to one side if the wheels aren't PERFECTLY straight, which they hardly ever are. Also, when you turn at all in the front, it causes one side to be released, which causes torque steer, which can turn it back and cause the other side to be released, it's a funny cycle. Now granted, this is controllable, you can keep the vehicle going straight in 4WD without issue, easily if traction is good, just keep forcing the wheel to stay straight when it wants to pull you around, but it's a constant chore, and if you pile a slippery road in there it can be the little difference of getting many people out of control in a skid.
I love the detroit in the front, because it unlocks for every turn, it's easier to turn than with a spool, and easier to turn when a selectable is in the locked position(it then becomes a spool, not a locker). So I am willing to put up with the small issue of 4WD street driving (rarely for me since I have a different DD) for the awesome traction and turning ability of a Detroit.
Its all about what you can put up with.
My first rig that had a locker in the rear was a sammi on 32s. Once you have driven that for several years a detroit in the rear of something with some wheelbase is barely noticeable.
If you have a hard time driving on icy roads with a detroit you probably should not be driving on icy roads.
My first rig that had a locker in the rear was a sammi on 32s. Once you have driven that for several years a detroit in the rear of something with some wheelbase is barely noticeable.
If you have a hard time driving on icy roads with a detroit you probably should not be driving on icy roads.
