Serpantine belt conversion

[Blue85]

Most steering control valves will act as a pump to give you at least some control of the steering in the even of belt loss.

Um, no.

Passenger cars/trucks don't use full hydro steering - they use hydraulic assist. That means you have a mechanical connection all the way from the steering wheel to the knuckle. The valve ties the input and output together with a torsion bar, so your steering input effort twists the valve and allows oil to flow for assist. When the oil pressure goes away, you twist the T-bar all the way to the "limit teeth", which is maybe 5-10 degrees (would have to look it up), at which point you are turning the steering gear worm directly, just like a manual steering gear.

Back to the OP: Try to get all the hardware that originally bolted the serpentine brackets to the block. Buying replacements can be a hassle, can really add to the swap cost and may not have the factory look.

Also, be prepared to drill a hole in your head. (or at least in the cylinder head ). The older heads didn't have all of the holes, but when you get the new brackets it's easy to mark the spot. Look up the proper depth so you don't drill into the water jacket. Of course you will need the proper tap for it as well. With aluminum brackets, I don't recommend skipping any of the factory bolts and/or braces. There are stories of them cracking/breaking.

 

[cyclic]

I'm doing it with the 96-2000 brackets. On my particular truck (88 Suburban) it even gives me the correct sides for the a/c and alternator, so wiring will even be easy. Biggest thing I love about the vortec brackets is you can easily change the water pump by pulling the fan and belt. As nothing is attached over the water pump bolts.

 

[Blue85]

It's personal preference, but I like having the A/C compressor on the PS. That's where the all of the other A/C parts are, so why run the lines all the way over the engine? The only reason is to re-use your existing A/C hoses and make wiring easier.

 

[cyclic]

Alternator is closer to battery. A/C is 134 already and I prefer the later style compressor.

 

[twoslo4five0]

did yall see the link I posted on the last page? Is that a good deal or no?

 

[cyclic]

Looks good, just remember, the water pump needs to be new. Don't shoot yourself in the foot from the start with a used water pump. As always offer less and try and get it cheaper. But $150 with the accessories is decent. Make sure to get the belts measurement, part number, what the engine is actually from, for future replacement stuff.

 

[Larry]

did yall see the link I posted on the last page? Is that a good deal or no?

Ya, that stuff is alright. The price is on par with the usual. Something looks funky with that tensioner though. Seems big for that bracket design. Could be the pictures or that guy has a mix match of components bolted together. I agree in that it would be wise to start with a fresh water pump if you go this route.

 

[AR_K5]

Um, no.

Passenger cars/trucks don't use full hydro steering - they use hydraulic assist. That means you have a mechanical connection all the way from the steering wheel to the knuckle. The valve ties the input and output together with a torsion bar, so your steering input effort twists the valve and allows oil to flow for assist. When the oil pressure goes away, you twist the T-bar all the way to the "limit teeth", which is maybe 5-10 degrees (would have to look it up), at which point you are turning the steering gear worm directly, just like a manual steering gear.

Back to the OP: Try to get all the hardware that originally bolted the serpentine brackets to the block. Buying replacements can be a hassle, can really add to the swap cost and may not have the factory look.

Also, be prepared to drill a hole in your head. (or at least in the cylinder head ). The older heads didn't have all of the holes, but when you get the new brackets it's easy to mark the spot. Look up the proper depth so you don't drill into the water jacket. Of course you will need the proper tap for it as well. With aluminum brackets, I don't recommend skipping any of the factory bolts and/or braces. There are stories of them cracking/breaking.

I know this is off-topic but I had to respond.

Um Yes
I was not talking about hydraulic assist, I was talking about the other gentleman's reference to full hydraulic steering. Go ahead and look up steering control valves (more commonly known as "orbital valves"). So long as the system remains closed and no fluid is lost the orbital valve will push fluid even if the pump is not spinning.

 

[wasted wages]

Guess I'm lost in space..... I'll stick with my v belts.

Was at the drags one night in my chevelle....having too much fun and staying way too late , I threw my only v belt on the big end of the strip and the fan ate it up.

As I idled back thru the pits,I asked everyone for a spare belt.....no one had one.
It was 2am. I was getting desperate as this was my ride home.

A guy with a VW had a spare belt he ran on his bug.... I crossed my fingers and popped the hood, the belt was a perfect fit around the crank and water pump pulley only on the BBC....

We rolled the engine over with a wrench as I fed the belt on the crank.....it was all I needed as the battery was hot and it made the trip home just fine without the alternator...

I think about that every time I see a serpent setup.... Since then I have gotten others and myself off trails with rope, strips of leather belts,,shoestrings and wire,,, all on V belt pulleys.

Not gonna do that with a serp setup......

 

[Larry]

Guess I'm lost in space..... I'll stick with my v belts.

Was at the drags one night in my chevelle....having too much fun and staying way too late , I threw my only v belt on the big end of the strip and the fan ate it up.

As I idled back thru the pits,I asked everyone for a spare belt.....no one had one.
It was 2am. I was getting desperate as this was my ride home.

A guy with a VW had a spare belt he ran on his bug.... I crossed my fingers and popped the hood, the belt was a perfect fit around the crank and water pump pulley only on the BBC....

We rolled the engine over with a wrench as I fed the belt on the crank.....it was all I needed as the battery was hot and it made the trip home just fine without the alternator...

I think about that every time I see a serpent setup.... Since then I have gotten others and myself off trails with rope, strips of leather belts,,shoestrings and wire,,, all on V belt pulleys.

Not gonna do that with a serp setup......

So, do you run a caburator and breaker point ignition too?

 

[AR_K5]

Have you ever considered that you might not have thrown a belt at all had you been using the tighter, much more reliable serpentine belt and that's exactly why nobody else had spare v-belts?

Don't get me wrong I still have V-belts on my 5, but that's only because I have other upgrades that rank higher on my list of priorities at the moment. Should the right setup come along at the right price, I'm on it.

I doubt you'll ever hear of anyone buying a new car and upgrading it to run multiple v-belts either.

 

[4xcrazy]

The problems I had with the serpentine were that the power steering pump front bearing broke, couldn't run it, obviously couldn't remove the belt, the other couple were on my Burb with the little idler pulley bearings dieing, had a spare luckily, had two alternators fail, one locked up right as I shut the engine down in front of my house, got lucky on that one, the other caught fire on the freeway due to a bad rear bearing... again, couldn't just drive it the 5 miles home because of the water pump.

Again, I like the design, they're quiet, reliable belts, apparently they are more reliable than the components they are turning now though.

NEVER had an actual belt failure though.

 

[AR_K5]

Again, I like the design, they're quiet, reliable belts, apparently they are more reliable than the components they are turning now though.

NEVER had an actual belt failure though.

Nail hit squarely on the head.
With a good serpentine belt, the belt is no longer the weak link.

 

[77 casa grande]

Serpentine belts were designed so engineers could shoehorn motors into smaller and smaller engine compartments, period. It's certainly a cleaner look, but there are no significant advantages to a serp system over a v belt.

 

[Larry]

Serpentine belts were designed so engineers could shoehorn motors into smaller and smaller engine compartments, period. It's certainly a cleaner look, but there are no significant advantages to a serp system over a v belt.

I agree serpentine allows for better packaging of engines in tighter places but I disagree there are no significant advantages to serpentine. I remember reading an SAE document on serpentine systems years ago in college that discussed how it was more efficient with less drag on the engine than standard V-belts just like how the wide super-single tires are on a semi vs. standard dual wheels. Manufacturers are always looking at ways to reduce fuel consumption. I’ll see if I can fish out that old document someday. That document alone is what sparked my interest in swapping to serpentine on my truck way back in 1996. Call me crazy, but I swear the tired little 350 did gain a little power after I swapped on serpentine too.

Besides that, it looks cool, you can run a more efficient A/C compressor (over an old 60’s, 70’s and early 80’s bigass A6 compressor) and you can more easily run a higher amperage alternator. A run of the mill TBI 5.7L serpentine system has a minimum of 105 amp alternator. Most old GM trucks prior to 1988 will have a measly 55 to 63 amp alternator.

 

[77 casa grande]

The OP's question was: Does he need this? implying is it worth the cost to convert. I was just pointing out that one system had no big advantage over the other.

 

[82355]

It does have an advantage though.....

Martin

 

[77 casa grande]

It does have an advantage though.....

Martin

Yes agreed, there is SOME HP gain. But is it enough to cover the cost of a conversion?
I'm not an opponent of the serp belt, I have 3 other cars with them,and not looking to change them
Just hate to see someone go through the time and expense and not get the results they were looking for.
If I were building a new motor, I' d run a serp belt.

 

[twoslo4five0]

The OP's question was: Does he need this? implying is it worth the cost to convert. I was just pointing out that one system had no big advantage over the other.

This was the question.

My worn out ass tbi 350 isn't a horsepower monster and I'm not looking to make it one, I'm just a crawler. I really could care less about HP

 

[82355]

Slight (unnoticeable) horsepower gains are just an added benefit.

Martin