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Sm465 clutch recommendations

wetoolowdingbangow

wetoolowdingbangow

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Hey guys. So I just swooped up a 465 that im going to convert to hydraulic....I have a few questions.

Whats a decent clutch that wont run me more than $200? The centerforces are cool but almost 400 bucks!

11 inch or 12 inch?

Would a hydraulic clutch be different than cable?

I have to change out my flywheel of course too... im wondering what direction I should be looking in for that...from what I read it would be 168 tooth? Does anyone run heavier flywheels to keep the low speed bucking down?

Last but not least...can manual pedals be modified for hydro? I'm seeing a lot of yeah, no and maybes. Seems like the hydraulic ones bring the money on ebay. ill make my own before I pay 250 bucks for a rusty set.
 
I'm running a Sachs clutch in mine. For the last ~15 years. Flywheel is torn up, and it's been smoked a couple of time (whoops, wrong gear! lol) but even with that, in present config (33's, 3.42's) it didn't slip flat towing a ~6000lb truck yesterday. Not that I think that is special or anything, but I'm pretty surprised with that much age and abuse, not to mention tire/gear combo, that it didn't. Not real high speed or anything, but the engine was working hard up the hills and the clutch held. It was not a high dollar piece, just what the place had when I needed it.

I never did spend the time to figure out the 11 or 12" deal. Not even going to pretend I know whether they really mean the 10.whatever small clutch GM used, or if it's just what they started making to save an 1" worth of clutch material instead of a 12" piece. Go with the 12", I'd not even think twice if both are offered. Also, stay away from the 3 finger setups, go with diaphragm.

168 tooth is pretty much standard on these. Maybe with the light duty manuals in the trucks they used a smaller clutch? Don't know why you'd need heavier, they aren't lightweights by any means. I've never had it chatter or had any problems making the truck move. Make sure you get the appropriate flywheel for your engine...one piece or two piece rear main motors use different flywheels as the back of the crank is different.

Hydraulic works like your brakes...a master cylinder then the slave at the bellhousing. Never dealt with a cable anything, but hydraulics tend to have better feel than the mechanicals as they age...these flimsy frames aren't easy on the mechanical setups, and they tend to oblong holes and what not.

Can't help on the pedals. I'm sure they can be modified, but I've been able to track down sets as I kept my eyes open. But I was in no hurry either.
 
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Ive got a LUK clutch in my 83, was new roughly 20 years ago :haha:

Its been filled with mud, well abused, never really smoked. Had it apart to swap motors couple years ago and it had hardly wear and very little on the flywheel. Id def. buy one.

That being said, I also run a dual friction C/F on my Beaumont, it is way to much clutch for the car. It sees all street time. It basically is on/off with very little in between. But boy does it grab......

Another buddy of mine had run a couple Fenco clutches and didnt have much luck, ended up putting a center force in and not looking back.
 
don't do a 3 finger pressure plate .

it is taller and hits the hydro fork as its bent different than mech fork .

I found this out the hard way years ago :doah:
 
168 tooth is the standard truck flywheel.
153 tooth is found in cars.

I have had good luck with LUK clutches.

Martin
 
Ditto on the LUK clutches and stay away from the 3 finger pressure plates--they suck!..I had 3 of them fail in less than a month just street use too--maybe they were just poorly rebuilt Borg-Warner parts,but several garages and customers who bought them where I was working had the same issues with them..the pedal effort on a 12" 3 finger Borg & Beck pressure plate is very high,your left leg will feel like your using a universal gym weight lifter after awhile...(my leg couldn't take one now,it was bad enough 20 years ago!)..

Also I don't see a 12" one being any "better" than an 11",some bellhousings wont allow a 12" to fit,and the surface area on the disc isn't all that much larger really...in fact,I have read the 10.5" "6 cylinder clutch" used on many GM cars and light duty 1/2 tons has almost as much surface area as the 11 and 12" ones..GM uses three different height throwout bearings too,depending on whether it is a "raised diaphram" or "flat diaphram",or a 3 fingered variety,its important to get the right one the FIRST time!..
 
dyeager535 said:
I'm running a Sachs clutch in mine. For the last ~15 years. Flywheel is torn up, and it's been smoked a couple of time (whoops, wrong gear! lol) but even with that, in present config (33's, 3.42's) it didn't slip flat towing a ~6000lb truck yesterday. Not that I think that is special or anything, but I'm pretty surprised with that much age and abuse, not to mention tire/gear combo, that it didn't. Not real high speed or anything, but the engine was working hard up the hills and the clutch held. It was not a high dollar piece, just what the place had when I needed it.

I never did spend the time to figure out the 11 or 12" deal. Not even going to pretend I know whether they really mean the 10.whatever small clutch GM used, or if it's just what they started making to save an 1" worth of clutch material instead of a 12" piece. Go with the 12", I'd not even think twice if both are offered. Also, stay away from the 3 finger setups, go with diaphragm.

168 tooth is pretty much standard on these. Maybe with the light duty manuals in the trucks they used a smaller clutch? Don't know why you'd need heavier, they aren't lightweights by any means. I've never had it chatter or had any problems making the truck move. Make sure you get the appropriate clutch for your engine...one piece or two piece rear main motors use different flywheels as the back of the crank is different.

Hydraulic works like your brakes...a master cylinder then the slave at the bellhousing. Never dealt with a cable anything, but hydraulics tend to have better feel than the mechanicals as they age...these flimsy frames aren't easy on the mechanical setups, and they tend to oblong holes and what not.

Can't help on the pedals. I'm sure they can be modified, but I've been able to track down sets as I kept my eyes open. But I was in no hurry either.
Click to expand...

Good stuff! Thanks for all the knowledge. I saw you worked on a wiki for the sm465 a few weeks ago right? I recognize the name lol. I definitely want to go with the hydraulic. Seems like you can bind up a mechanical one with the wheeling im doing.

Bowtie85 said:
Ive got a LUK clutch in my 83, was new roughly 20 years ago :haha:

Its been filled with mud, well abused, never really smoked. Had it apart to swap motors couple years ago and it had hardly wear and very little on the flywheel. Id def. buy one.

That being said, I also run a dual friction C/F on my Beaumont, it is way to much clutch for the car. It sees all street time. It basically is on/off with very little in between. But boy does it grab......

Another buddy of mine had run a couple Fenco clutches and didnt have much luck, ended up putting a center force in and not looking back.
Click to expand...

Ive heard the luk name dropped before. I think thats the route im going! Sounds like they can take a beating.

sweetk30 said:
don't do a 3 finger pressure plate .

it is taller and hits the hydro fork as its bent different than mech fork .

I found this out the hard way years ago :doah:
Click to expand...

Ok good to know! Its equally important to know what not to do!

82355 said:
168 tooth is the standard truck flywheel.
153 tooth is found in cars.

I have had good luck with LUK clutches.

Martin
Click to expand...

Ok. Ill have to get a 168 toother then. Luk it is!

diesel4me said:
Ditto on the LUK clutches and stay away from the 3 finger pressure plates--they suck!..I had 3 of them fail in less than a month just street use too--maybe they were just poorly rebuilt Borg-Warner parts,but several garages and customers who bought them where I was working had the same issues with them..the pedal effort on a 12" 3 finger Borg & Beck pressure plate is very high,your left leg will feel like your using a universal gym weight lifter after awhile...(my leg couldn't take one now,it was bad enough 20 years ago!)..

Also I don't see a 12" one being any "better" than an 11",some bellhousings wont allow a 12" to fit,and the surface area on the disc isn't all that much larger really...in fact,I have read the 10.5" "6 cylinder clutch" used on many GM cars and light duty 1/2 tons has almost as much surface area as the 11 and 12" ones..GM uses three different height throwout bearings too,depending on whether it is a "raised diaphram" or "flat diaphram",or a 3 fingered variety,its important to get the right one the FIRST time!..
Click to expand...

Lol definitely dont want to be the guy with one huge leg from clutch working! Ok cool so ill just grab a regular luk clutch. They come with a multi finger flex plate so thats good and there damn cheap!


Looks like this includes the throwout...

http://www.partsgeek.com/gbproducts...+Google+Base&gclid=CP_HuaLa08cCFUWRfgodQZUGkQ
 
Centerforce stuff is made by Luk. At least they used to be. My old rig had a Centerforce clutch that was given to me...Under the orange paint I found a Luk logo stamped in.
 
Zeus33rd said:
Centerforce stuff is made by Luk. At least they used to be. My old rig had a Centerforce clutch that was given to me...Under the orange paint I found a Luk logo stamped in.
Click to expand...

Interesting how many brands mingle or are sister companies...

dyeager535 said:
Not a few weeks ago, months, but just clarified. The 465 wiki article is a mess now. :(
Click to expand...



Yeah it needs some work. In time.

So the hydraulic bellhousing i need is passenger side like this one?

http://www.justchevytrucks.com/images/300_T16L.jpg

I see theres a driver side one too?
 
No, you need drivers side slave. Going to be fairly difficult to find depending on where you are and how lucky you get. Passenger side will most likely interfere with the front driveshaft.
 
Unfortunately anymore that seems to be an average to good price, at least the opening bid. :(
 
82355 said:
Yeah, that second one is the one you are looking for.

Martin
Click to expand...

Ok cool thanks! I suppose i can get the clutch and flywheel while i wait....opinions on steel vs ductile iron flywheels? Steel is $20 more

dyeager535 said:
Unfortunately anymore that seems to be an average to good price, at least the opening bid. :(
Click to expand...

Yeah. I have a hard time with the price. especially knowing its just a chunk of aluminum but it is what it is.
 
Ok luk clutch ordered!

Last question...i think. Has anyone messed around with the hydraulic setups that incorporate the release bearing?

This would allow me to use the current bellhousing...i think. Ive heard that they may not last as long and obviously there a PIA to change but if it went bad your screwed either way...

Maybe its a bad idea but i just want to see if anyones doing it or if its a no no.

burnout
 
sweetk30 said:
never used them . but lots of people have .

http://www.novak-adapt.com/catalog/clutch/kit-hcr3/
Click to expand...

interesting. The chevy one costs $208, which isnt bad. They list the bellhousing that it will work with so when i go home ill check if mines listed. I think the fork hole is on the passenger side...may cause an issue because im passenger drop?

Id probably save money if i can get a passenger side BH and get this kit...
 
No idea if it's an issue in practice or not, but the "internal" bearings, if they fail, can apparently contaminate your clutch. I've not messed with them, they don't seem real popular for some reason.

If you can get the right bellhousing for $125, you can probably get the rest of the stock hydraulic parts for $75. Of course, you've got the clutch fork and throwout bearing to consider, along with the master and slave cylinders, the reservoir and hose.
 
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