Here's my high side
CK5
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specific make/model recommendations for AC components
- Thread starter clutch2k3
- Start date
Your low side is at 20F, so it may be icing, but that will also happen when you're undercharged. Did you adjust the screw in the cycling switch? Another way to charge is to slowly add until the outlet of the evap (and really the line heading to the compressor) gets frosty. It will be cooling nearly evenly across the coil when the refrigerant is metering properly.
How much oil did you get out and how much did you put in?
Here's mine, stock evaporator, stock condensor, R-4 compressor. I can't remember ambient.
Currently, I'm running the scroll compressor that is shaped just like the R-4 and I can't recommend it (GPD 6511357). It's super quiet, but I just can't get the thing to cool right. I think it's a Sanden TRS090 clone, which should be 90cc = 5.5in^3. The smaller pulley doesn't make up for the loss of displacement. That's what the real R-4 has going for it - 10 in^3.
How much oil did you get out and how much did you put in?
Here's mine, stock evaporator, stock condensor, R-4 compressor. I can't remember ambient.
Currently, I'm running the scroll compressor that is shaped just like the R-4 and I can't recommend it (GPD 6511357). It's super quiet, but I just can't get the thing to cool right. I think it's a Sanden TRS090 clone, which should be 90cc = 5.5in^3. The smaller pulley doesn't make up for the loss of displacement. That's what the real R-4 has going for it - 10 in^3.
I finally got the high side coupler to work by filing off .04" from the top of the R12 fitting connected to the hot line. I polished where the O Ring seats with 400 & 800 grit sandpaper and replaced the valve core. I plan on posting pics later. I determined the amount it was too high by measuring the low side r134a conversion adapter which was working fine.
@Wes Harden @6872xtc @Blue85
36° F!!! Now you're just showing off and making me jealous!
Do y'all think the amount of time it took to get the freon in there and that the compressor doesn't cycle at idle are signs that the compressor should be replaced?
Yes, you're correct, its an r4 compressor. I'm a newb so I'm looking at RockAuto, Summit, Partshawk, eBay & Amazon for parts and I haven't seen a "sanden" compressor for my 89 blazer. I'm not sure how to buy one that will work for my application (89, passenger side, serpentine, 5.7L Mr. GoodWrench)
While I did replace the cycling switch, I didn't adjust it since its not cycling and it blows kinda warm right from the start. I'm assuming I don't want it to cycle in this scenario.
Moving forward I'll go by pressures instead of weighing.
I added etser oil w/dye, 1 oz to the condenser, 3 oz to the evaporator and 2 oz to the accumulator.
I didn't measure the oil that came out. I flushed the evaporator and hot line into a bucket. I still have the old accumulator and hoses so I guess I could try measuring what comes out of those 2 things but a lot of oil already leaked onto the floor from the hoses.
I'm not sure how to test if its icing or not.
I spent 2 hours trying to get 3 cans into it and it stopped at 30 oz so I don't see how I could put more refridgerant in there to get things frosty. Maybe the bowl-of-hot-water trick?
36° F!!! Now you're just showing off and making me jealous!
Do y'all think the amount of time it took to get the freon in there and that the compressor doesn't cycle at idle are signs that the compressor should be replaced?
Yes, you're correct, its an r4 compressor. I'm a newb so I'm looking at RockAuto, Summit, Partshawk, eBay & Amazon for parts and I haven't seen a "sanden" compressor for my 89 blazer. I'm not sure how to buy one that will work for my application (89, passenger side, serpentine, 5.7L Mr. GoodWrench)
While I did replace the cycling switch, I didn't adjust it since its not cycling and it blows kinda warm right from the start. I'm assuming I don't want it to cycle in this scenario.
Moving forward I'll go by pressures instead of weighing.
I added etser oil w/dye, 1 oz to the condenser, 3 oz to the evaporator and 2 oz to the accumulator.
I didn't measure the oil that came out. I flushed the evaporator and hot line into a bucket. I still have the old accumulator and hoses so I guess I could try measuring what comes out of those 2 things but a lot of oil already leaked onto the floor from the hoses.
I'm not sure how to test if its icing or not.
I spent 2 hours trying to get 3 cans into it and it stopped at 30 oz so I don't see how I could put more refridgerant in there to get things frosty. Maybe the bowl-of-hot-water trick?
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The oil you added to those parts is about what you want. In the bucket is there any shinny debris ?
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The oil you added to those parts is about what you want. In the bucket is there any shinny debris ?
My bad, you already recommended that kit. I called them and their lead time didn't fit into my schedule and tbh, the person I got in the phone wasn't very helpful. Maybe it was my lack of experience, but at the time I didn't get a warm and fuzzy.
No metal anywhere, not in the flush and not on the orifice either. I checked with a magnet.
I'm going to replace with a cheapo R4 for now and install that saden kit you recommended later this year or early next year, hopefully before the cheapo R4 eats itself.
Well I have not use this outfit, if they can't deliver and don't want maybe I will stop. I did hear from some peps at VW bus show, they do retrofit ac for air cooled busses, that Sanden was not making that compressor any more. Maybe this has put a crimp in the kits.
When I put a Sanden style compressor onto my '90, I used an adapter kit and a more generic compressor, which required custom hoses. This probably isn't something that you want to dive into without knowing where to get custom hoses, so I suggest letting that go to the back burner for now.
I haven't tried any other method of swapping.
DUMB QUESTION! Sorry that I didn't ask sooner, but did you try raising the engine rpm to 1500 to 2000 while watching the gauges? If so, did it pull any more freon in then?
My thought is that there isn't enough evidence to condemn the compressor yet, beyond it not pulling enough freon in, so far.
I haven't tried any other method of swapping.
DUMB QUESTION! Sorry that I didn't ask sooner, but did you try raising the engine rpm to 1500 to 2000 while watching the gauges? If so, did it pull any more freon in then?
My thought is that there isn't enough evidence to condemn the compressor yet, beyond it not pulling enough freon in, so far.
I agree, even though I dislike r4 compressors. No metal evident in the system. What color was orifice tube ?
@Wes Harden
No, I didn't try raising the engine RPM to pull more freon.
The YouTube vids I watched didn't rev up the engine or use a bowl of hot water to pull freon in and these sound like simple awesome ideas to me. In the videos I learned from, the freon "just went in". I'm going try both of of those ideas tomorow before I make the compressor non-returnable.
For any AC newbs reading this, here are the issues I experienced that weren't covered in the YT videos I watched:
- The high side r134a conversion adapters I bought didn't work out-of-the-box,
- The white replacement orifice tube was extremely difficult to put in,
- The can tap that came with my gauge set is a puncture style tap but the freon cans I bought had self-sealing schrader valves (had to buy the proper tap from advanced auto, the puncture-tap adpater did not work), and
- the system took an extremely long time to suck freon in.
And yes, I put a bunch of oil on the orifice tube and inserted it the correct way - large filter side towards the compressor, small filter side towards the evaporator, extractor nubs facing out. I watched about 6 different videos making 110% sure I wasn't trying to install it backwards.
The cheapo replacement R4 compressor I just bought was only $184 and going by it's reviews it should last 1-2 years which would give me enough time to figure out this sanden pump thing. But I plan on installing an orifice tube repair kit the next time the system is opened up and if I were to do that, I think I'll have to replace the accumulator again since the system will be open to FL humidity while I install the repair kit and the compressor.
I didn't consider and forgot about the can tap. I did have difficulty with mine the last time I used it.
I have had this style for years
last time I used it it wouldn't open the can.
I use this one now
It could be possible the tap is restricting gas from entering
I have had this style for years
last time I used it it wouldn't open the can.
I use this one now
It could be possible the tap is restricting gas from entering
I tried the bowl of hot water with the 4 oz that were left in a can and things are really off now. Maybe the water was too hot?
While on max AC, The high side keeps climbing towards 350 psi and the low side is staying at like 40. I've been shutting it down cus I think that's too high. Maybe something iced up?
With the system off the pressures are different now, 75 on the low side and 100 on the high side.
With the system off, the low side is 90 and the high side is 95.
I'm not sure if the gauges are messed up or the system is messed up.
While on max AC, The high side keeps climbing towards 350 psi and the low side is staying at like 40. I've been shutting it down cus I think that's too high. Maybe something iced up?
With the system off, the low side is 90 and the high side is 95.
I'm not sure if the gauges are messed up or the system is messed up.
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If you can't get 24 oz of freon ( 2 little cans) to go into your system in under 15 minutes, something is seriously wrong.
The system on me Wifey's 2003 ferd escape took 24 Oz, 2 cans, in under 5 minutes.
Once I had the PAG oil in, fired up the engine with the AC on high, got the 1st canin about a minute and a half, then the compressor started cycling on and off, half way through the second can, it came on and stayed on for about 2 minutes, then cycled off for about 30 seconds, then came back on for about 4 minutes, by then the second can was sucked dry.
Back side of the oriface tube hose was hot, othe side of the oriface tube hose was ice cold.
Air in cab was very cold, and getting colder.
So, if it won't take freon, something is wrong. Time to investigate.
The system on me Wifey's 2003 ferd escape took 24 Oz, 2 cans, in under 5 minutes.
Once I had the PAG oil in, fired up the engine with the AC on high, got the 1st canin about a minute and a half, then the compressor started cycling on and off, half way through the second can, it came on and stayed on for about 2 minutes, then cycled off for about 30 seconds, then came back on for about 4 minutes, by then the second can was sucked dry.
Back side of the oriface tube hose was hot, othe side of the oriface tube hose was ice cold.
Air in cab was very cold, and getting colder.
So, if it won't take freon, something is wrong. Time to investigate.
Well, if the gauges are correct, the compressor is capable of building pressure, obviously.
Did it ever get colder during this?
Hopefully you didn't shoot past what charge amount would work.
But, it's still progress, even though it can add to confusion sometimes.
With that kind of high side pressure, I would have been looking for a sign of icing on a line. If the orifice tube is the only restriction, it should show frost right past it. I have seen a partial restriction elsewhere freeze up. This would show a blockage.
Did it ever get colder during this?
Hopefully you didn't shoot past what charge amount would work.
But, it's still progress, even though it can add to confusion sometimes.
With that kind of high side pressure, I would have been looking for a sign of icing on a line. If the orifice tube is the only restriction, it should show frost right past it. I have seen a partial restriction elsewhere freeze up. This would show a blockage.
Don't be afraid to drop back 10 and start over.
I buy orifice tubes in pairs, that way, when you break one during reassembly, you can just press on with another one.
Only way to be sure is start from scratch.
Compressor makes pressure?
If yes, move on, if not, replace it.
Replace condensor(hot coil) accumulator/reciever-dryer, orifice tube/expansion valve(restriction)
Blow out the evaporator(cold coil) with non-chloronated brake clean and shop air until all the goo comes out, nothing but clean liquid break cleaner should come out. After that, blow it out with shop air till no more liquid comes out at all. Has to be dry.
Same with all AC hoses. Brake cleaner and shop air, until clean and dry.
Reassemble with known good seals, I use PB blaster to lube seals, as it doesn't swell them.
You should use PAG oil, just to say you did.
Absolutely need a good vacuum source. I used a new harbor freight shop air powered vacuum pump.
The sealed AC system should hold 20+ inches of vacuum, for more than an hour( I go for 2 hours just to be sure)
This will assure you have no leaks.
Then add your PAG oil, same way you add freon.
Then, start the engine, turn AC to high, and add freon. It should take the full amount, whatever that amount is, without having to force it in there.
As soon as the pressure sensor senses pressurized freon it should start cycling, by the end of the second small can the compressor should be running fairly consistently. You need to add as close to the required amount as possible. Without overfilling.
Where the orifice tube is, the compressor side of the hose should be hot to the touch, the other(back side) should be very cold. With cold air in the cab.
I buy orifice tubes in pairs, that way, when you break one during reassembly, you can just press on with another one.
Only way to be sure is start from scratch.
Compressor makes pressure?
If yes, move on, if not, replace it.
Replace condensor(hot coil) accumulator/reciever-dryer, orifice tube/expansion valve(restriction)
Blow out the evaporator(cold coil) with non-chloronated brake clean and shop air until all the goo comes out, nothing but clean liquid break cleaner should come out. After that, blow it out with shop air till no more liquid comes out at all. Has to be dry.
Same with all AC hoses. Brake cleaner and shop air, until clean and dry.
Reassemble with known good seals, I use PB blaster to lube seals, as it doesn't swell them.
You should use PAG oil, just to say you did.
Absolutely need a good vacuum source. I used a new harbor freight shop air powered vacuum pump.
The sealed AC system should hold 20+ inches of vacuum, for more than an hour( I go for 2 hours just to be sure)
This will assure you have no leaks.
Then add your PAG oil, same way you add freon.
Then, start the engine, turn AC to high, and add freon. It should take the full amount, whatever that amount is, without having to force it in there.
As soon as the pressure sensor senses pressurized freon it should start cycling, by the end of the second small can the compressor should be running fairly consistently. You need to add as close to the required amount as possible. Without overfilling.
Where the orifice tube is, the compressor side of the hose should be hot to the touch, the other(back side) should be very cold. With cold air in the cab.
I usually will shake the can upside down while squeezing the trigger. Works everytime.
Guilty! To be fair, I don't think I ever got it that cold on R-134.
I can't remember charging one of these without touching the lines a lot. An IR gun would be more scientific, if you have one. These temperatures can help you figure out if there's a restriction. Right after the orifice tube, the inlet to the evap should be cold-to-frozen. If not, you're just not flowing refrigerant and there's a real problem. The outlet of the compressor will be very hot, so be careful touching that. There should be a large temperature drop between the condenser inlet and outlet. If the system is working right, the evap outlet should be almost as cold as the evap inlet. This is one way to judge the charge level, as I mentioned earlier. These temperatures can help you figure out if there's a restriction.
It's possible the slow charging is due to a slow can tap or test port fitting. Your gauge shows the low side pressure as plenty low, so the can pressure should be plenty to push the gas in. I remember struggling once with high side readings that were impossible/nonsense, but fortunately before I tore everything apart, I realized the high side fitting hadn't fully depressed the schrader valve.
Temperature is pressure, so you need to set the pressure high enough that ice doesn't form on the evaporator. Yours is showing 20F, which is below freezing. That's also why it isn't cycling - it just can't draw the pressure down that low.
350psi is too high. Rule of thumb is that high pressure is from a restriction, overcharge or poor air flow. You haven't talked about fans. Have you cleaned the coils? I've seen evaps black with dirt where fan on high barely moves any air. You can get a peek by removing the blower resistor. Remember there is no cabin filter, so the evap and heater core ARE the filters.
Having the kind of problems he's having, is what prompted me, with my somewhat limited diagnostic skills on AC. To just start fresh with new parts, where you can. Clean the ones you can't get out until you know it's not restricted. Then, run with common sense. Compressor either makes pressure or it doesn't. All the other parts are clean, Dry, and/or brand new(not that new = good)
Electric fans working yes or no?
A lack of freon can keep thing from working also, you need to know how much you have in there.
Electric fans working yes or no?
A lack of freon can keep thing from working also, you need to know how much you have in there.
New condenser, hoses, orifice, and accumulator and oiled.
Flushed and blew out evap til nothing but clear liquid/air came out, no metal.
Blower fan is working, no electric fan on condenser, using water on condenser to cool it while idling
Before last night had 30oz r134a in it
BTW All of this was posted earlier in the thread
