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Stock type steering correction. You probably should not use what you think.

Stephen

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There are a few basics to get wrapped around first:
1: when there is a positive arch in the leaf spring, the axle will move back when it moves up. This is just basic leaf geometry, they get longer when they get flatter.

2: Bumpsteer is observed when you hit a 2 wheel bump like a square on speedbump and as the suspension moves through it's travel, the steering wheel whips side to side. Or if you hold the wheel still, the tires will turn and try to steer the truck. This is often seen most dramatically on bad highways with big dips that can cycle the suspension through it's full travel. I've driven trucks with such bad bumpsteer that I would just let go of the wheel so that the thing would stay on the road.
A repeatable way to see bumpsteer is with hard braking. You can often create enough suspension compression with hard braking to see the wheel move if you have bumpsteer. This can bring in other effects like frame and bushing deflection because the frame is essential trying to over run the springs and axle and sometimes spring wrap can change the angle of the axle compared to the chassis and induce some steering input. But it's also a situation where you want to brake confidently so making it all work well here is important.

3: Rollsteer is a different animal. You'll feel rollsteer in twisty asphalt driving when you are constantly having to adjust the steering angle as the roll angle of the body changes through a corner. The extreme end of roll steer is when you're articulating the axle offroad and the tires and steering wheel just don't match up. You can easily get into situations where the steering box is maxed out one way or the other but the tires are pointed straight.

The factory front to back steering system is pretty good at matching the axle's motion in 2 wheel bumps so it's possible for it to be pretty good for bumpsteer. It doesn't really ever work that good for roll steer. And some of this is lift height dependent, there is a huge difference in making the factory steering work with a 3-4" lift vs. 8"+.

So here's the meat of the matter: you need to have some downward angle on the draglink. This goes against the common knowledge idea that the draglink needs to be level but it works and here's why. If your draglink is level at ride height, as the axle compresses the end of the draglink will move forward. We established above that the axle is moving backward as it compresses (assuming some arch in the spring) so something in the steering has to move to keep everything bolted up. The axle is moving back and the end of the draglink is moving forward so either the steering wheel or tires will have to move to keep up. If the draglink has a downward angle, it's axle end will move backward as it compresses so it's going the same direction as the axle. Ideally we'd make the arcs of movement match exactly but there are enough variations that most of the time just keeping the parts from going different directions will let it drive good enough.

What this boils down to in parts selection is that we run the factory steering up to 2" of lift and typically start using a drop pitman arm for 2.5" - 4" of lift. Then at 6" of lift we use the raised steering arm on the knuckle. At 8" of lift you need to start thinking about crossover even for a mostly on-road truck but using the raised arm with the drop pitman will work about as good as possible. Past that, the factory system doesn't do what most guys would call an acceptable job and you really need to convert to crossover.

There are a lot of details involved in how well this works out since things like tire size, wheel backspacing, truck weight, swaybar correction, frame flex and a bunch more start factoring in, but in general, don't think about a flat draglink, think about making it match up closer to what the axle is actually doing.
 
Great info!
Is there a big difference with the use of a drop pitman arm vs. raised steering arm?

I have a 2.5" lift and a raised arm to make my draglink pretty level. Best to remove raised arm and install factory arm? Guess I'm on the line 2" or 2.5".
 
Great info!
Is there a big difference with the use of a drop pitman arm vs. raised steering arm?

I have a 2.5" lift and a raised arm to make my draglink pretty level. Best to remove raised arm and install factory arm? Guess I'm on the line 2" or 2.5".

There's a good chance you're draglink is actually running uphill. I bet it would drive better with no correction or with the 2" pitman arm. The sucky part about this for a lot of guys is the factory steering arms bit the dust pretty often when removed for a raised arm and aren't available new any more. But if you have it, I'd try it out.
 
This is a pretty interesting topic. I am experiencing pretty good amount of bumpsteer with a shitty 6" kit. I'll try to pay more attention to rollsteer. In addition to the factory style drag link, the shackle/spring bushings have gone bad. I am seeing shifting in the leaf packs. I definitely get a little bit of a pull when braking hard...and didn't consider it might be due to steering/suspension vs braking system.

I plan to go crossover and have some of the parts. Still need the 2wd sector shaft, pitman arm, and drag link. it sounds like I need to speed up the suspension rework and get the crossover done with the quickness.

Thanks for the knowledge.
 
Great info!
Is there a big difference with the use of a drop pitman arm vs. raised steering arm?

I have a 2.5" lift and a raised arm to make my draglink pretty level. Best to remove raised arm and install factory arm? Guess I'm on the line 2" or 2.5".
So this has me thinking that there may be a situation where it would be beneficial to use the 1" steering arm spacer from ORD along with the stock arm. Maybe that would give just enough correction for a small lift?
 
So this has me thinking that there may be a situation where it would be beneficial to use the 1" steering arm spacer from ORD along with the stock arm. Maybe that would give just enough correction for a small lift?

I wonder a bit about this too. My thought is that we might be able to split the hairs finer but would we notice? I'm afraid the variables could make it to where we think we can hit a 2" target but in reality we can only hit a 5" target no matter how hard we try. One big one that keeps coming to mind for me is bushing and frame flex under braking vs. free wheeling conditions. When you're hard on the brakes the frame is trying hard to leave the axle behind so the axle is being pulled back hard. When you hit a bump you have a bit of that effect on the initial impact but that's all. They're going to create different axle paths by some amount. Is it .100"? .200"? Different brand lift springs get their lift by different methods too. Our ORD 4" lift spring rides with less arch than a 3 leaf Tuff Country spring of the same height so ours will move back less on a bump. But will probably show a little spring wrap on braking compared to a stiffer spring.

One thing I can tell you for sure is that the swaybar is part of this equation. Ideally I think you would run disconnects so that the swaybar isn't doing anything to locate the axle. I've driven a system where the steering correction was WAY different from the swaybar geometry with a soft spring and it was terrible. This was on Wally years ago and is the system I mention above that made me just let go of the wheel. I was driving I-70 from Grand Junction home to Carbondale and those that know the Parachute area know there are spots on that highway that will send you airborne if you don't check your speed. Vicious isn't too strong a word for the bumpsteer I built into it with the swaybar bolted up solid in the stock position plus a raised steering arm and drop pitman arm. Without the swaybar it wasn't too bad, with the bar controlling the axle path, it was bad. Run correction/disconnects, it tends to work better. Hence the "correction" part of the name.
 
@Stephen

my new plow truck build is a 85ish k30 with 3"hd tuff country front and whole truck poly bushing greasable from you guys . also stock sway bar with disconnects for correction of lift but will not be disconnecting them . just a extra pair of bolts . my plan is stock push/pull with stock pitman arm @ box and stock drag link setup and dodge dana 60 arm flipped and tapper insert set in for the flip to top mount . 454/4l80/203/205 combo and 850-950lb snow plow on the front at times. but correct ballest in the rear when plow on truck .

do you see anything I should do different ?

p.s. I might toss in a zero rate up front or 4"hd springs . . no final details yet . in mock up stage.
 
@Stephen

my new plow truck build is a 85ish k30 with 3"hd tuff country front and whole truck poly bushing greasable from you guys . also stock sway bar with disconnects for correction of lift but will not be disconnecting them . just a extra pair of bolts . my plan is stock push/pull with stock pitman arm @ box and stock drag link setup and dodge dana 60 arm flipped and tapper insert set in for the flip to top mount . 454/4l80/203/205 combo and 850-950lb snow plow on the front at times. but correct ballest in the rear when plow on truck .

do you see anything I should do different ?

p.s. I might toss in a zero rate up front or 4"hd springs . . no final details yet . in mock up stage.



We have parts of that whole plan scattered through our fleet. Our plow truck is a '85-ish with 2" TCI HDs and a 454 and they work well. We've used the dodge steering arm but rather than drilling it for an insert we just reversed the taper and were able to get it deep enough to hold a GM draglink end's bigger taper with no trouble. Only thing is, Chris has a similar height spring from our custom line and recently switched from the dodge arm to a stock arm with the drop pitman and likes how it drives better. We're starting to like keeping the steering as close to the axle as possible so that spring wrap doesn't change the geometry under braking. It's probably pretty cheap to try the dodge arm so you might give it a shot but if we were selling you the parts we'd send a pitman arm and not the steering arm.
We run a detroit in the back of the plow truck and it just acts like a detroit but we had to pull the locker out of the front to save on plow cylinders. It was too easy to bend them and it also drove crappy enough to make it easy to justify pulling it out. And when it's chained up all around it's not like it has trouble getting around anyway.
 
ya I have the dodge arm now. wasn't sure if I could ream it and still be good . I have a 1.5"-1ft reamer so I will try . worst is punch it and bush it .

I wanted a drop arm but there so much darn money I figured try the dodge arm first as I got it in trade for a extra gm unit I had .

mine will be 5.13 geared axles with arb's front and rear . . left overs from a parted out project . figure use them or loose my arss on them in resale . all new stuff just never run yet.

thanks for the reply back ! :biggrin:
 
@Stephen I really liked crossover when I had it on my '81 Jimmy. I'm wondering how small a lift you can have and run cross over? I'm mulling over a 2.5-3" lift...and would love to go cross over.
 
Nice explanation. Good guide.

I have read that dropped pitman arms cause more stress on the sector shaft, and possibley cause failure? ...any thoughts?
I have seen sector shafts break on lifted solid axle Fords, but they apparently have a smaller diameter sector shaft.
 
Great info
Thanks Stephen
And perfect timing for me. Years ago my first lift was 3in and I installed the 3in steering block that came with the kit.
then I moved up to a 4in lift (perfect for how I use my rig). I was in a hurry to go wheelin so I left the 3in block on which made the back of the drag link
slightly lower in the rear. My truck steers great, no bumpsteer or roll steer (I don't drive it at high speeds). I never put the 4in arm on. Planning to rebuild my front axle next month
and was going to put the 4in arm on to get the draglink "as parallel to the ground" like we all have heard for years.
Now I will leave the 3in block. And I don't have to deal with those crummy cone washers! Yes!

IMG_20170407_174621788.jpg
 
@Recon 78 now is the time to lube / soak them nuts and cones so just in case you need to service that area they have been soaking for a long time already .
 
Thanks for the tip SweetK30, after next weekends trail ride i'll start soaking every nut and bolt on the axle so next months rebuild goes a little easier
 
Nice explanation. Good guide.

I have read that dropped pitman arms cause more stress on the sector shaft, and possibley cause failure? ...any thoughts?
I have seen sector shafts break on lifted solid axle Fords, but they apparently have a smaller diameter sector shaft.

Drop pitman arms are harder on the box, raised steering arms are harder on the knuckle and studs. Bigger tires and offroad use are harder on stuff too.
 
I have read that dropped pitman arms cause more stress on the sector shaft...

Drop pitman arms are harder on the box ...

I'm experiencing this right now. I had a stock pitman and a raised steering arm on my 10-bolt (with 3.5" springs and a Zero-rate). When I switched to a D60 I got rid of the Zero rate, and used the stock D60 steering arm and switched to a drop pitman arm. All of the sudden I had all kinds of slop in the steering box which led to death-steer. I was able to adjust it out with the sector shaft adjustment, but that slop never showed up with the stock pitman arm.

I'm getting some pull under braking now too, which is new, so I appreciate this thread. I'll need to reread it a few times and try to wrap my mind around it. :)
 
Not sure I've seen a broken 4wd pitman arm or sector shaft. I've heard of splines stripping but that's about it. And keep in mind that this type of steering is generally good for mild offroad use and shorter lifts and those 2 factors generally involve shorter tires too. When you get serious about using the truck hard you go to crossover and probably hydro assist.
3" of lift is generally the minimum for crossover but it can probably work a little lower with some tweaking for specifics. In general 3"+ is nice to have when you're using the truck offroad anyway so doing crossover on really short lifts is generally not a problem because it just doesn't happen much.
 
Not sure I've seen a broken 4wd pitman arm or sector shaft. I've heard of splines stripping but that's about it. And keep in mind that this type of steering is generally good for mild offroad use and shorter lifts and those 2 factors generally involve shorter tires too. When you get serious about using the truck hard you go to crossover and probably hydro assist.
3" of lift is generally the minimum for crossover but it can probably work a little lower with some tweaking for specifics. In general 3"+ is nice to have when you're using the truck offroad anyway so doing crossover on really short lifts is generally not a problem because it just doesn't happen much.
And when running 6" of lift with soft springs and 37" tires, budget for hydro assist. Lest you get the boss pissed of at you.
 

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