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Stock type steering correction. You probably should not use what you think.

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by Stephen, Apr 6, 2017.

  1. Blue85

    Blue85 Troll Premium Member

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    So if the spring has negative arch, the draglink should slope uphill? The more the front half of the springs slopes, the more angle you should have in the draglink?
     
  2. blazer74

    blazer74 Member Premium Member

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    I'm running the raised steering arm with approx 5" of lift and 35s
    My drag link is at approx 8 deg down and I have no issues with bump steer.
     
  3. Mastiff

    Mastiff 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    I've got ORD springs and crossover and the bumpsteer is very noticeable. It's not real bad most of the time, but a section of road near here has several "whoops" in it and it's a little disconcerting as it tries to drive off the side of the road. I run no sway bar. It seems like it's just the nature of the beast with soft leaf springs.
     
  4. Blue85

    Blue85 Troll Premium Member

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    Yes, several of us have mentioned this, possibly all with ORD springs. If the PS side travels upward, it changes the distance between the knuckle and the steering box, so how can it not bumpsteer? A panhard bar could help this, but creates other issues. If you have Rough Country springs and crossover, you won't notice bumpsteer because the suspension doesn't move much. After some time you can learn to "let" the steering wheeling move on a bump, but it's still a little weird during turns. Crossover reduces roll-steer a lot, which is the big advantage on the street. Overall more steering control. And we all understand why crossover is better off-road.
     
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  5. Chevy305

    Chevy305 6 Lug 14bsf Status Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    I've been debating in my head for a while if crossover is worth it for my truck. I'm running a 4" Tuff Country EZ Ride lift springs with no sway bar and Bilstein 5100s. It rides decent but could be improved. I have a raised steering arm so the drag link is parallel to the ground. Bump steer in general isn't a problem but I guess that I have roll steer and it definitely veers to the right while braking hard. This truck is definitely more of a street queen now so Would crossover make it more street friendly or should I try a shorter steering arm? Or is this just the nature of the beast? I also don't want to trade one set of problems for another with cross over given the cost of it.
     
  6. Mastiff

    Mastiff 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    In my case, street driving got noticeably worse with crossover. I did it because it was hugely impacting suspension travel of my suspension, and I could see how under certain off road conditions I would barely be able to steer. Based on my experience, I would not go to crossover for a mostly street rig, or even for one with limited suspension travel where you aren't seeing a problem.
     
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  7. ktmoutfront

    ktmoutfront Stuck going nowhere fast Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    @Chevy305 your pulling during braking is bump steer. As long as it's not in the brakes or tire pressures being way off.
     
  8. CrpMag122

    CrpMag122 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    For what it's worth, I concur. I went crossover for mine and it has caused all sorts of steering issues. Granted, I am running 37's with a 6" lift and the springs are super soft (ORD springs). The problem with mine is because of the larger sized tires and soft springs, the whole front suspension moves side to side while steering. It's just the nature of the beast when you are running that type of set up. If you planned on doing any off-road driving with it I would suggest going to crossover but for a vehicle that will not be doing much if any off road, I don't really think it will be worth the money and potential other issues that would need to be addressed.
     
  9. Chevy305

    Chevy305 6 Lug 14bsf Status Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    Wow for as much people around here praise cross over, I'm kinda surprised/relieved by the responses. I say relieved because now I don't need to spend $1k on parts that I don't need.

    @ktmoutfront I do definitely have bump steer, it is pretty evident on an RTI ramp. Driving on the street, barely noticeable in most normal driving situations.
     
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  10. CrpMag122

    CrpMag122 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    @Blue85 and @Mastiff , have either of you tried hydro assist to see if that helps? I have a redneck ram coming hoping that will help with the side to side movements a bit.
     
  11. Blue85

    Blue85 Troll Premium Member

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    I'm trying to think what happens if you have "stiff" hydro assist and crossover and stuff a tire. Seems like if the wheels continue to point straight the steering wheel would turn in your hands, but I have no idea how to estimate the effect of the hydraulics in that case. Seems like full hydro would completely solve this problem, although it comes with other issues.

    Let's let ORD chime in with experience, or somebody else who has converted many trucks.
     
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  12. ktmoutfront

    ktmoutfront Stuck going nowhere fast Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    All steering geometry on a straight axle will have some bump steer, except full hydro. On a tall lift or with long travel, crossover will have less than push/pull geometry.

    If spring shift is a big issue, need for checking bushings and such is necessary. A pan hard bar can help some of the shift also.
     
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  13. CrpMag122

    CrpMag122 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    I checked the bushings on mine and the only bushing that has a little bit of flex to it is the top bushing in the FUSH kit I installed. I called ORD and they said this is normal to see with soft springs and big tires. I believe I spoke with @Stephen. He said hydro assist was the best bet as the panhard bar option creates other issues. I know there was another thread I found where Stephen went into detail about said issues.

    Here is that thread.
    https://ck5.com/forums/threads/crossover-and-bumpsteer.324522/page-2
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2017
  14. ktmoutfront

    ktmoutfront Stuck going nowhere fast Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    I can't follow along anymore. That's the thread I thought we were in.

    The thing we all have to remember is, we are not driving Porsches. I bet I had $2k in custom suspension on my lowered 2wd lb road race truck. And I built it all. Still would not beat a 911 at RIR. It would beat most Corvettes back then.

    I straight axle has it limits.
     
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  15. Blue85

    Blue85 Troll Premium Member

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    How is there more torque with crossover? Is the pitman arm shorter or the steering arm longer? Some claim to have a better turning radius with crossover, which implies the opposite. Are you just saying that with articulation crossover maintains better leverage on the steering arm? When the DS tire is drooped and the push-pull drag link is at 45 degrees to the frame, it's trying to lift/lower the truck as much as it's trying to steer.
     
  16. skunked

    skunked in the garage Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    yeah me either, it's really a terrible improvement offroad. I'm going back to push pull.
     
  17. skunked

    skunked in the garage Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    that's because you don't wheel it. If you did, you would understand the need for crossover.
     
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  18. H20 Toie

    H20 Toie 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    Now you guys got me scared
    Haven't even got the axles in yet but have all the parts including cross over.
    will really suck if it ends up being worse than stock :(
     
  19. skunked

    skunked in the garage Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    Aren't you linking the front? You need and want crossover, there is no debate there. I was being sarcastic about removing my crossover, I wouldn't make it 100 yards before I was stuck and couldn't steer on the trail without it.

    However for some that are on leafs, mostly street drive their trucks with an occasional trail cruise the push pull is fine.
     
  20. H20 Toie

    H20 Toie 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    good i would hate to spend that kind of money on it an not like it
     
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