Sounds Awesome Dave..
CK5
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Story of two '72 K5's build
- Thread starter scottishdave
- Start date
Page 5!
Man...Have I learned a ton about Hose today. Spent some time on the phone with Gates, Spent an hour or so in a Parker hose store.
Such a relief too, I am sick of every autoparts store person swearing to me that heater hose will work
You just cant win with these people.
The hose that i had on there which failed was a Fuel hose. I used it because it was the only hose in the store with an actual SAE rating. Unfortunatly it was SAE J30R7 which is only about 50psi or so.
So...Gates makes a hose specificaly for Oil and Tranny cooler lines, It is called GTH, which has a SAE 100R6 rating. This is the stuff that was on the truck when i bought it...go figureGates tells me that Car Quest and/or Orielly's should have it. Well they dont...Orielly's looks at me like an idiot, recommends heater hose and I slam the door on my way out. Car Quest, having a machine shop and a hose making room knew what I was talking about but just didnt have it and was not willing to order the 6 ft I wanted as it comes in 550' spool's. They recommend "Push-Lock" hose, which is fire resistant and rated to 300psi, But has no SAE rating. I bought some since it sounded pretty good. I called Gates Hose and they tell my Push Lock will fail because of the engine vibration
I learn about a Parker Hydraulic store in town and I go there to see if they can help. They have nothing rated in SAE 100r6, They have 100R5, but that has wire mesh, cant be hose clamped and i would need to have permanent fitting attached to work properly. I actually liked that idea, but with moving in two weeks I didnt want to re-engineer my oil cooling system.
We get to talking about Push-Lock and I tell them what Gates said. They say, "Bull****" Parker Hose actually came up with Push-Lock hose, branded it and Gates copied it, calling theirs LOLPLUS....lol
He tells me that it will stand vibration no problem, that it is meant for oils and lubricants, etc...and that the only issue it has is big surges in preassure. But he said that even if the engine was running 80psi, that a surge from 0-80psi was not what he meant by "surge"
Then we talk about fittings....The old settup had Barbed Fittings, SAE100R6 and hose clamps. I learn that Push-lock hose, usees "Push-Lock" fittings, which look like barbed fittings, but they only have 2 large barbs. He told me in preassure testing he has burst hose, but never a push-lock fitting. Push-lock hose will work with barbed fittings, but a hose clamp is needed. If push-lock hose is used with push-lock fitting, no hose clamp is needed.
There were many other neat things that i learned today in regards to Hose, but there you go.
Remember this when you are out shopping for hose to run your oil cooler and fighting an epic battle of wits against the autozone emplyee about why heater hose is not the answer to world hunger.
Oh yeah...I fixed the leak, lol.
Such a relief too, I am sick of every autoparts store person swearing to me that heater hose will work
You just cant win with these people.The hose that i had on there which failed was a Fuel hose. I used it because it was the only hose in the store with an actual SAE rating. Unfortunatly it was SAE J30R7 which is only about 50psi or so.
So...Gates makes a hose specificaly for Oil and Tranny cooler lines, It is called GTH, which has a SAE 100R6 rating. This is the stuff that was on the truck when i bought it...go figure
Gates tells me that Car Quest and/or Orielly's should have it. Well they dont...Orielly's looks at me like an idiot, recommends heater hose and I slam the door on my way out. Car Quest, having a machine shop and a hose making room knew what I was talking about but just didnt have it and was not willing to order the 6 ft I wanted as it comes in 550' spool's. They recommend "Push-Lock" hose, which is fire resistant and rated to 300psi, But has no SAE rating. I bought some since it sounded pretty good. I called Gates Hose and they tell my Push Lock will fail because of the engine vibrationI learn about a Parker Hydraulic store in town and I go there to see if they can help. They have nothing rated in SAE 100r6, They have 100R5, but that has wire mesh, cant be hose clamped and i would need to have permanent fitting attached to work properly. I actually liked that idea, but with moving in two weeks I didnt want to re-engineer my oil cooling system.
We get to talking about Push-Lock and I tell them what Gates said. They say, "Bull****" Parker Hose actually came up with Push-Lock hose, branded it and Gates copied it, calling theirs LOLPLUS....lol
He tells me that it will stand vibration no problem, that it is meant for oils and lubricants, etc...and that the only issue it has is big surges in preassure. But he said that even if the engine was running 80psi, that a surge from 0-80psi was not what he meant by "surge" Then we talk about fittings....The old settup had Barbed Fittings, SAE100R6 and hose clamps. I learn that Push-lock hose, usees "Push-Lock" fittings, which look like barbed fittings, but they only have 2 large barbs. He told me in preassure testing he has burst hose, but never a push-lock fitting. Push-lock hose will work with barbed fittings, but a hose clamp is needed. If push-lock hose is used with push-lock fitting, no hose clamp is needed.
There were many other neat things that i learned today in regards to Hose, but there you go.
Remember this when you are out shopping for hose to run your oil cooler and fighting an epic battle of wits against the autozone emplyee about why heater hose is not the answer to world hunger.
Oh yeah...I fixed the leak, lol.
I hate long days like that, getting contradictory info at every turn. grrrr
at least you got to the bottom of it and posted the info here for the rest of us.
...oh, and gratz on fixing the leak.
at least you got to the bottom of it and posted the info here for the rest of us.
...oh, and gratz on fixing the leak.
What part of Cali are you going to move to?
Thanks for the little write up. Being pretty dumb on these things, I had really no clue. So, hopefully someday all this will come back to me and I'll get the right hose. 
I'm glad I check this thread regularly Dave, now I know where to look when mine gets the bew motor
nice work fixing a leak with incompetent parts stores!
nice work fixing a leak with incompetent parts stores!
Getting sent to Camp Pendelton, I am almost 90% that I will end up living in Temecula or Murietta.
looks and sound beautiful!!!!!!!!!!
That hose story reminds me of my struggles with the ARP bolt kit for my engine. Gawd, I spent waaaay too much time measuring every bolt and figuring out the thread engagement for each hole to understand why the "kit" seemed to be completely wrong.
There are definitely days like that in a custom build. I remember reading a really good article in HotRod or Chevy High Perfromance mag about hoses a while back. There are a lot of considerations for fuel hose too... The new fuel formulations wreak havoc with traditional butyl rubber hoses, so as a restorer you have to be knowledgeable about this stuff now to avoid problems.
I'll post up the exact reference material for you if I can find it again.
-G
There are definitely days like that in a custom build. I remember reading a really good article in HotRod or Chevy High Perfromance mag about hoses a while back. There are a lot of considerations for fuel hose too... The new fuel formulations wreak havoc with traditional butyl rubber hoses, so as a restorer you have to be knowledgeable about this stuff now to avoid problems.
I'll post up the exact reference material for you if I can find it again.
-G
You have a great group of CK5ers in the area. I haven't met one that I didn't like yet. I'll be about an hour south of you so we should be able to hit the trails when you get settled in.
Cant get my electric fans to turn on nowAnd the truck will over heat in a hurry now.
They worked great before the motor swap...Going to look at it some more tommorow, But every wire is accounted for already. Checked the inline fuses for the flexalite system....Not very keen on electrical at all. And by that I mean I know next to nothing so this should be fun.
And the truck will over heat in a hurry now.They worked great before the motor swap...Going to look at it some more tommorow, But every wire is accounted for already. Checked the inline fuses for the flexalite system....Not very keen on electrical at all. And by that I mean I know next to nothing so this should be fun.
Do they work if you jumper the temp switch? I just was going through the no fans thing last week
SuperDave,
Make sure that you are using a relay to switch the power on the fans.
Back in the old days before I knew better I used to wire full current through the temp sensor in the block...it will work for a while but the sensors aren't designed for that kind of amperage draw and will fail frequently if wired that way.
Bypass the block sensor, if the fans work again you have a bad sensor. Could be simple.
-G
Make sure that you are using a relay to switch the power on the fans.
Back in the old days before I knew better I used to wire full current through the temp sensor in the block...it will work for a while but the sensors aren't designed for that kind of amperage draw and will fail frequently if wired that way.
Bypass the block sensor, if the fans work again you have a bad sensor. Could be simple.
-G
I think that we are under estimating my ignorance of everything electrical.
It is a full Flexalite system, I am pretty sure the PO had it set to run at all times, then once the engine was turned off it would kick back on for 30 seconds.
It does not use the temp sensor in the side of the head. From looking around there are two wires running from the flexalite "box" to a metal spike looking object going through the radiator which I am assuming is the temo sensor.
I am going to do some asking around for someone with electrical know how to come help me out as next week is my last week in this state. My church is like a "man skills" networking supercenter. Filled with good ol' southern boys and each one has some sort of skill/trade for a living so I know one of em will be able to help.
bigbadchev84
1/2 ton status
You may have broke the Capillary tube when removing/installing it- thats the probe your talking about.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PRF-30103/?rtype=10
Here is a much better set-up, If you are feeling up to it, you could pick up a relay and a temp sender and build this kit for 1/2 the price. Not hard at all.
You may have a spot on your thermostat now that will have a terminal that you can manually ground with a toggle switch to turn the fans on yourself
EDIT.....Looks like you probably have one of these? http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FLX-33011K/?rtype=10 Throw a ground jumper to the same terminal that the temp probe wire on the relay, that will bypass it and let you know if your relay is bad.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PRF-30103/?rtype=10
Here is a much better set-up, If you are feeling up to it, you could pick up a relay and a temp sender and build this kit for 1/2 the price. Not hard at all.
You may have a spot on your thermostat now that will have a terminal that you can manually ground with a toggle switch to turn the fans on yourself
EDIT.....Looks like you probably have one of these? http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FLX-33011K/?rtype=10 Throw a ground jumper to the same terminal that the temp probe wire on the relay, that will bypass it and let you know if your relay is bad.
Cool, I will first try figure out what it is you are talking about doing, and then give it a shot, lol.
This is the system that I have controling the fans
http://www.flex-a-lite.com/auto/31165-99943.pdf
Still no luck on getting it to run though, My troubleshooting skills for electronics is limited at absolute best.
http://www.flex-a-lite.com/auto/31165-99943.pdf
Still no luck on getting it to run though, My troubleshooting skills for electronics is limited at absolute best.
SuperDave,
Simplify everything as much as you can.....
Step 1: Red and Black wires from fan directly the battery to confirm the fan will spin. If it works, re-connect to the circuit as shown in diagram.
Step 2: Remove the thermostat sensor wire (connectors 10 & 11) and jumper across those terminals directly... the sensor is probably a "normally open" circuit, so shorting across the terminals should tell the fans to come on. If you can force the fans to spin in this step, the thermostat sensor has probably failed.
Step 3: I'd remove all the other wires (terminals 5,6,7,8) just for simplicity sake during the troubleshooting steps above. If you can get a "simple" system working....then you can add these other connectors back into the controller one-at-a-time until you find the one that's causing the issue.
-G
Simplify everything as much as you can.....
Step 1: Red and Black wires from fan directly the battery to confirm the fan will spin. If it works, re-connect to the circuit as shown in diagram.
Step 2: Remove the thermostat sensor wire (connectors 10 & 11) and jumper across those terminals directly... the sensor is probably a "normally open" circuit, so shorting across the terminals should tell the fans to come on. If you can force the fans to spin in this step, the thermostat sensor has probably failed.
Step 3: I'd remove all the other wires (terminals 5,6,7,8) just for simplicity sake during the troubleshooting steps above. If you can get a "simple" system working....then you can add these other connectors back into the controller one-at-a-time until you find the one that's causing the issue.
-G
You mean a Red (Pos) wire and Black (Neg) wire from the fans straight to the battery terminal's?
Then by jumping the thermostat connections you mean disconnecting the thermostat and place a piece of wire to connect #10 & 11?
Then by jumping the thermostat connections you mean disconnecting the thermostat and place a piece of wire to connect #10 & 11?
