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Strange Steering Behavior

Heh...funny enough, I'm going through a nearly same scenario myself, though it cropped up immediately after doing a crossover & high steer conversion. Brand new passenger knuckle, brand new ball joints, brand new TREs all around, brand new steering gear, brand new steering shaft, brand new steering shaft u-joints, and brand new pump a couple days later. I forgot to fill the fluid reservoir on the pump after assembling everything, and ran the truck for several minutes before noticing that I didn't open the new bottles of power steering fluid...oops. :doah: After filling and bleeding the system, I immediately noticed that odd "resistance" in the steering. I figured I burned up the pump running it dry, so I put a new pump in. Didn't help.

I know exactly what the feeling is that you're getting..it's not a hard binding that you're forcing your way through, but more like the power assistance is dropping out for a few degrees of steering rotation.

Don't know if I might have just missed it in prior posts, but make sure you're checking the simple stuff first - fluid level, system properly bled, belt not slipping. But I suspect that it's still a gearbox adjustment issue in both your case and mine, specifically that the rebuilders are putting way too much preload in the box to avoid having to replace expensive shafts and gears. It seems the rebuilders have gotten VERY poor in this regard over the last decade or so, and I've heard from several mechanic buddies that it's not uncommon to have to go through several "new" gearboxes before they find one that's adjusted correctly. If my current one didn't have the adjustment nut painted over, I'd crack it loose just to test my theory.
 
urbex said:
Heh...funny enough, I'm going through a nearly same scenario myself, though it cropped up immediately after doing a crossover & high steer conversion. Brand new passenger knuckle, brand new ball joints, brand new TREs all around, brand new steering gear, brand new steering shaft, brand new steering shaft u-joints, and brand new pump a couple days later. I forgot to fill the fluid reservoir on the pump after assembling everything, and ran the truck for several minutes before noticing that I didn't open the new bottles of power steering fluid...oops. :doah: After filling and bleeding the system, I immediately noticed that odd "resistance" in the steering. I figured I burned up the pump running it dry, so I put a new pump in. Didn't help.

I know exactly what the feeling is that you're getting..it's not a hard binding that you're forcing your way through, but more like the power assistance is dropping out for a few degrees of steering rotation.

Don't know if I might have just missed it in prior posts, but make sure you're checking the simple stuff first - fluid level, system properly bled, belt not slipping. But I suspect that it's still a gearbox adjustment issue in both your case and mine, specifically that the rebuilders are putting way too much preload in the box to avoid having to replace expensive shafts and gears. It seems the rebuilders have gotten VERY poor in this regard over the last decade or so, and I've heard from several mechanic buddies that it's not uncommon to have to go through several "new" gearboxes before they find one that's adjusted correctly. If my current one didn't have the adjustment nut painted over, I'd crack it loose just to test my theory.
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Yeah, you've got it - exactly my Symptoms! :waytogo:
After inspecting all what has got to be inspected, i'm figuring it's an Gear-Issue, too...
What do you think about the Gear from the following Link, the "Lares" 11263? Or do you Guys have a good Advice for buying a "new" Steering Gear?

 
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Lukas Arndt said:
Yeah, you've got it - exactly my Symptoms! :waytogo:
After inspecting all what has got to be inspected, i'm figuring it's an Pump-Issue, too...
What do you think about the Gear from the following Link, the "Lares" 11263? Or do you Guys have a good Advice for buying a "new" Steering Gear?

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If we are convinced the problem is the steering box, they CAN be properly adjusted. If rebuilders are getting sloppy, and brand new boxes might have the same issue, I would think adjustment would be the way to go, first.

The adjustment is a bit complex, but it's doable. It's not just adjusting the set screw up top...I'm certain there are plenty of youtube videos that show proper GM steering box adjustment.
 
dyeager535 said:
If we are convinced the problem is the steering box, they CAN be properly adjusted. If rebuilders are getting sloppy, and brand new boxes might have the same issue, I would think adjustment would be the way to go, first.

The adjustment is a bit complex, but it's doable. It's not just adjusting the set screw up top...I'm certain there are plenty of youtube videos that show proper GM steering box adjustment.
Click to expand...

I'm not 100% that it's the box, at least not in my case. I haven't yet went through the troubleshooting steps to isolate the issue, as my Samurai build has taken front and center priority as of late. Adjusting the box myself, while being completely capable of doing so, isn't something I want to do on a brand new box as I'd be breaking tamper markers to do it.

My concern also isn't that it's merely an adjustment issue, but rather that excessive preload is being put on these boxes to cover worn/damaged internals. I'm not willing to risk $250 on a "new" box just to find out that it has worn internal bits, that I now can't warranty swap out because I've broken the tamper markers.
 
Sorry, I was referring more towards Lukas. If it ends up voiding a warranty or the ability to return something, without written authorization from the seller, I wouldn't want to either. But you gotta figure, for the hassle and cost on both ends, letting someone attempt an adjustment IMO probably makes more sense than just sending it back, assuming the problem is known.

With the box free to turn, I believe input shaft force required to turn is a given value, so it could also be measured.

Any extra hassle with "new" parts is just that, a hassle, but it seems more and more common that new doesn't mean good, unfortunately.
 
dyeager535 said:
Sorry, I was referring more towards Lukas. If it ends up voiding a warranty or the ability to return something, without written authorization from the seller, I wouldn't want to either. But you gotta figure, for the hassle and cost on both ends, letting someone attempt an adjustment IMO probably makes more sense than just sending it back, assuming the problem is known.

With the box free to turn, I believe input shaft force required to turn is a given value, so it could also be measured.

Any extra hassle with "new" parts is just that, a hassle, but it seems more and more common that new doesn't mean good, unfortunately.
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Yeah, i know... but i'm a bit afraid about adjusting by myself :whistle:
 
urbex said:
I'm not 100% that it's the box, at least not in my case. I haven't yet went through the troubleshooting steps to isolate the issue, as my Samurai build has taken front and center priority as of late. Adjusting the box myself, while being completely capable of doing so, isn't something I want to do on a brand new box as I'd be breaking tamper markers to do it.

My concern also isn't that it's merely an adjustment issue, but rather that excessive preload is being put on these boxes to cover worn/damaged internals. I'm not willing to risk $250 on a "new" box just to find out that it has worn internal bits, that I now can't warranty swap out because I've broken the tamper markers.
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I'm going to give the "new" Lares Box a Shot... will tell you Guys... unfortunately it will take a while due to Shipping-Time to Germany... :cool:
 
bp71k5 said:
The issue sounds like what happens when the gear box adjustment set screw has been overly tightened.
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Yeah but when i installed the Gear Box i had at least just minimal of those Symptoms,- do you think i should give it a small turn back/loose? :thinking:
 
Lukas Arndt said:
Yeah but when i installed the Gear Box i had at least just minimal of those Symptoms,- do you think i should give it a small turn back/loose? :thinking:
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If you are going to replace it anyway I'd say yes, what's the worst that could happen, to a part you plan on replacing anyway? Very small increments. Someone may be able to chime in about what has worked for them, but I did about an 1/8 of a turn on mine (super sloppy steering box) and couldn't tell a difference. At some point I plan on digging into it and adjusting it the right way.

Remember though, that is not the only adjustment on these boxes, nor is it correct to do just one...but again, who cares if you plan on replacing it. I'm not sure what happens if the input shaft adjustment is off.
 
dyeager535 said:
If you are going to replace it anyway I'd say yes, what's the worst that could happen, to a part you plan on replacing anyway? Very small increments. Someone may be able to chime in about what has worked for them, but I did about an 1/8 of a turn on mine (super sloppy steering box) and couldn't tell a difference. At some point I plan on digging into it and adjusting it the right way.

Remember though, that is not the only adjustment on these boxes, nor is it correct to do just one...but again, who cares if you plan on replacing it. I'm not sure what happens if the input shaft adjustment is off.
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Yea, I was never able to get it to improve anything, only make it worse. Too tight and it has a weird “tightness”. But if the box started out good and has got worse, it may be a sign that it’s just needing a rebuild.
 
A sheared leaf spring center bolt can cause the steering ability to change ,especially if its the drivers side,it lets the axle move around instead of the wheels steering..
 
diesel4me said:
A sheared leaf spring center bolt can cause the steering ability to change ,especially if its the drivers side,it lets the axle move around instead of the wheels steering..
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Thank you, will check that Leaf-Spring Bushings/Bolts again, just to get sure... :thinking: :waytogo:
 
dyeager535 said:
If you are going to replace it anyway I'd say yes, what's the worst that could happen, to a part you plan on replacing anyway? Very small increments. Someone may be able to chime in about what has worked for them, but I did about an 1/8 of a turn on mine (super sloppy steering box) and couldn't tell a difference. At some point I plan on digging into it and adjusting it the right way.

Remember though, that is not the only adjustment on these boxes, nor is it correct to do just one...but again, who cares if you plan on replacing it. I'm not sure what happens if the input shaft adjustment is off.
Click to expand...

I'll give it a little Try... :D
 
bp71k5 said:
Yea, I was never able to get it to improve anything, only make it worse. Too tight and it has a weird “tightness”. But if the box started out good and has got worse, it may be a sign that it’s just needing a rebuild.
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Yeah, i think so, too... :waytogo:
 
The best way to adjust the steering box while still on the truck means that you should disconnect the pitman arm so that you can turn the input shaft and run it through the center of its range. You should be able to feel it get tighter through the center, but not anything drastic. I believe that it's supposed to take 11 inch pounds on the input shaft to pull it through the center of the range. This is the "on the bench specification" as I remember it. It's been more than a decade since I built one of my own, so I may be foggy on it.
 
Yeah it's very close to that for sure. Not even 1 foot pound. There is more tension on your pinion bearings, new or used.
 
Thank you, Guys! Next Week i'll check Adjustment, Wheel Alignment, New Steering Coupler, New Steering Stabilizer, New Fluid (System get flushed), get all Ball-Joints greased up... And if my Symptoms still are there, i think i'm going to get me a New Steering Box...
 
Lukas Arndt said:
Thank you, Guys! Next Week i'll check Adjustment, Wheel Alignment, New Steering Coupler, New Steering Stabilizer, New Fluid (System get flushed), get all Ball-Joints greased up... And if my Symptoms still are there, i think i'm going to get me a New Steering Box...
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Or you could do simple and free things like disconnect pitman arm/steering column, then turn steering box input by hand to see what it feels like.

Or sure, spend a bunch of money and labor time changing a bunch of stuff that may not need replacing...:dunno:
 
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