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Stupid reliable

The question no one is asking is "What is your budget?" or "What modifications?"

If you're saying unlimited budget you could do anything.

If you have $2k, that's a different story.

I personally like the stock TBI engines because they are solid, easy enough to troubleshoot, and cost effective. You won't catch me driving a truck with a carb ever again, that's for sure.
 
True, I didn't give a budget. I did say stock and GM power plants.

Its crazy that its still really hard to beat the 350 for best bang for your buck. At least for our rigs.

I know that the LSX swaps are coming down in price some and guys are swapping in used ones for under $2k, but that still gets you a 100k= motor to start with and for $2k you can get a 0 miles 350...:dunno:

so if we compared stock, brand new motors for our rigs that will give you say 200k miles with minimal maintenance, again, its really hard to beat a carbed or tbi 350
 
diesel4me said:
Though I own two 6.2 powered trucks,I am unsure if I'd reccomend one as "stupid reliable" for a few reasons...

One,they are known to snap cranks for whatever reason,with no warning..
Yes, so I've always read online. Never experienced this myself. Yet.

Two,they often do have head gaskets fail after 100K miles..also without much warning..
More specifically to the early blocks, but yes. Also pertaining to this thread, dunno if OP will be buying a new engine. I also consider a head gasket normal maintenance at those miles. Maybe that's just my luck lol

Three,the injector pumps are expensive,and replacing one is beyond the ability of most guys who can fix a gas engine,especially on the side of the road..that goes for most of the other things on them like timing chains,water pumps,they are not as simple as doing one on a small block..
Expensive... Same price as a GREAT quality Qjet rebuild. How often would you get a rebuild? Fuel additives can help immensely prolong the life, but yes you're spending money on additives. Hard to replace? ... Not IMO, very straight foward and simple, but yes a PITMFA. But we used to heat up crap 5/8 wrenches and bend them to specific angles to make it easier to remove the lines- helps

Four,they dont like short trips...diesels like to be run and worked fairly hard...
Very true.

Five,fuel is at least 50 sents per gallon more than gas..
I think I have a brain fart, but what's the payout with more MPG?

Six,they arent common around here any more,if they ever were,so few are available for parts at salvage yards...
Factor I didn't think of. I've been fortuante enough to see them very often, fully dressed, and working for a very good price. Definitely not as common as a 350, but what is? I see them go for cheap I guess cause no one wants them. But remember before everyone and their momma wanted a 5.9? More and more are going back to 6.2s cause the price of cummins are ridiculous. Parts are easy to obtain online.

Seven (yeah,I know I said a FEW reasons!)--a 6.2 might not want to start after an overnight camp out in winter ,no place to plug in the block heater!..
True! But, for this thread, OP is near Portland. Not a terrible issue.

Eight,the starter bolts do often cause grief and damage the block,mostly due to not having the brace on the starter--not the engines fault,but still an expensive potential issue...
I also haven't seen this happen myself, only heard of it. They do make starters with support bolts in the rear.

Nine,oil changes cost more and must be done more often than a gas engine--or else you'll encourage engine failure early..
They do hold more oil. I still run on 3k changes, always have.

Ten,you have 2 batteries to go dead instead of one...one fails,the remaining one usually dies too,or might not be enough alone,to get it to start..
Meh... you're right. But I'd say that's grasping at straws :D To counter that, great for winching!

They might be fine for those who want to go long distance on highways and drive many miles daily,dont do a lot of short trips,and dont mind the noise and stinky diesel smell,or shelling out big bucks when the injectors or pump go south...but the average joe would probably be better off staying with a gas engine..
Oh and this is an edit, my 6.2 smells better/cleaner than any old chevy gasser w/o cat I've ever had :) I couldn't drive Nom Nom (350) with the tailgate window down w/o fear of dying from carbon monoxide. No, not the engine's fault, it was a tired old engine. And noise is a personal preference. Hearing my 6.2 is a nostalgia thing for me.


I liked having a small block or straight six,carbed,mechanical fuel pump,with a fresh timing chain and gears (or metal cam gear on the sixes,those fiber cam gears were the only thing that let me down twice on two straight sixes I had,the 235,and a 250,but both had 150+K on them too)...HEI ignition is OK,as long as you keep a spare distributor ready to plop in "just in case" a module or pick up coil,etc croaks..

I liked points,easy to diagnose if anything went wrong,and like the 6.2,they'll keep the engine running if we ever had an EMP pulse,where anything computerized will likely be dead as a doornail...
Click to expand...

I don't take anything I read online as true, so I don't believe anything till I see it on my own, or vehicles I see and work on. Not saying they don't happen, can't know everything, just saying that's how I roll. And ask someone to speak of a QJet and you'll hear Quadrabog, Quadrajunk... etc. Yet those are the absolute best carburetors ever built.

1BEATK5 said:
Ummmm.. no
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Yes! I'm only comparing engine mile life and reliability, nothing else, cause there's no other comparison I know. But yes, find you a set of old fleet trucks that were taken care of and you'll see 300-500k engines that gave them no undue trouble.

OP was looking for 150-200 mile lifespan. You guys are all talking about 200k miles the absolute end lifespan of a sbc. What are you guys doing to these engines if you think 200k miles is crazy high miles?? Am I alone on this? I'd say that's average for not being maintained very well. But not high. We're all mechanics here, your average engine should be lasting much more than the average driver.
 
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1BEATK5 said:
I bet there are a lot more 6.2s that didn't go 150k than 6bts that didn't go 200k.
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And I wouldn't say you're wrong, Regardless, 150-200 on a 6.2 or 5.9 is a direct reflection of poor maintenance on the owner.

We're not talking about powerjokes here :haha:

But in all seriousness. Most motors can last a very long time, if taken well care of.
 
So do you guys think that most motors are discarded or rebuilt prematurely when the hover around 200k?

Used to be more common to re ring a motor, do a timing chain and oil pump and button it back up. Have we become a throw away society or are these hot rod urban legends?

Good discussion on this thread so far
 
COCHEV said:
So do you guys think that most motors are discarded or rebuilt prematurely when the hover around 200k?

Used to be more common to re ring a motor, do a timing chain and oil pump and button it back up. Have we become a throw away society or are these hot rod urban legends?

Good discussion on this thread so far
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I think price became the biggest issue. When you can get a brand new long block for just over a grand. Why go and pay the shop rate to dig into the engine, clean it up and put it back together with new parts and then still have old bearings and everything else and spend more money in the process. Stock for stock just doesn't make sense.

It seems like anymore the only people that find it worthwhile are people punching for power or a specific goal with the engine where they need the hands on knowledge of a pro to help get it done.

I realize that doesn't apply to guys like us that do it themselves, but we are A-typical. Even than, it still makes sense $$ ahead to start with a spanking new long block and build up from there in most cases.


(Only really talking about a 350, as that's my only knowledge)
 
had a 87 C-10 my dad gave me with 305 TBI & 350C, it had 220k when I gave it to my ex. Her new beau totaled it a couple of years later, it was still running strong...

had an 89 C 1500 350 TBI 700R4, had 180+k on it when I got rid of it...

my 90 burb has a 6.2 with TH400, 283K on it right now runs great.


My very unscientific research has shown that the 6.2l cranks break because the harmonic balancer wears out and shifts on it's hub, throwing the assembly out of balance.

after re-reading your original post I think any of the motors you listed would be fine with good routine maintenance.

RE: the straight 6, I bought a 57 chevy project truck with a 6, got it home, put fresh gas in the carb, hooked up a batt & it fired right up!

straight 6's of any marque are damn near indestructible. The 300 Ford, the old Dodge slant 6, all great motors.
 
COCHEV said:
So do you guys think that most motors are discarded or rebuilt prematurely when the hover around 200k?

Used to be more common to re ring a motor, do a timing chain and oil pump and button it back up. Have we become a throw away society or are these hot rod urban legends?

Good discussion on this thread so far
Click to expand...

I feel that's exactly what it is, because like Smokinthehippies said, it's too expensive nowadays. Pay a little more and buy a longblock just makes more sense now. Or like most do now, find a used known good motor and just swap if you're strapped for cash if yours is smoked. A risk though, $200-300 get a used motor, could last 5 miles, or 50,000 miles.

And right on with 62 fat guy, a lot of straight 6 motors are super reliable. Though parts support, ease, 350 will always be king. Dime a dozen and cheap.
 
62 fat guy said:
straight 6's of any marque are damn near indestructible. The 300 Ford, the old Dodge slant 6, all great motors.
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Agreed many times over.

The K5 I bought in high school came with the 250 inline 6 motor with only 83k original (certified) miles, however, it was a mine rig in Montana for years so really the equivalent of 500,000 miles on anything else.:doah: Anyway, that motor was beat up, as was the rest of the truck. It didn't want to go into reverse (sm465) and doing so would cause the shifter to flap back and forth and make lots of banging sounds when the clutch was released. I found that the passenger side motor mount was um, missing...:confused: Fixed that, and the choke on the carb (I had to make a little jig out of a popsicle stick and pencil to hold the choke open so it wouldn't, choke, itself) Then the valve seals decided they'd had enough, then the piston rings followed suit. Dad told me when that motor died, I could swap in a V8, so it was on to kill the 6'er.

Long story short, dad knew that motor would not give up, and I did, in no particular order, the following:

Sugar in the gas tank
Sugar in the carb
5 minutes of full throttle in neutral (many times over)
Ran it out of oil, then drove 40 miles
A lot of clutch dumps at full throttle
Oil down the carb
70+ on backroads (it would overheat anything over 65)

And more that I can't remember. That thing would NOT DIE!! Finally it got so bad dad relented and helped with the motor swap, and when I started pulling that six apart, I was amazed it would even turn over! The crank had 1/4" of endplay, all the bearings and journals were either blue, missing, or both, every piston had play between them and the cylinder walls. The carbonated sugar coated just about everything related to air movement. Not to mention the sludge...

What I should have done is rebuilt the 6, if it was even possible, because the 350 I put in its place never worked right, and didn't have the same kind of power the 6 had. I could sidestep the clutch in first gear and it wouldn't even skip a beat, the V8 would die unless throttled right. But that V8 is a whole 'nother story...

Get a marine duty inline-6, get a 6 cyliner Ezi-efi (or a 4.3 V6 Fi setup) an adapter plate and have a motor that will go through hell before it thinks of saying quit.
 
You guys who are afraid of magic EFI and breaking down on side of road have anxiety issues that are unfounded!

My first TBI was a 1987 Short bed 2wd bought 6 months old in 1988. The only things changed were spark plugs, cap and rotor twice along with oil filter at 3K and an air filter ever 5-10K. Never once was I broke down or stranded. Traded it in at 210K.

1991 TBI Extended cab 2wd, same scernario, traded it in at 260K

I still have a 1990 2wd Suburban with original fuel pump and all sensors wiring etc... around 158K in kilometers as it's a forign job from canada, so it's not milage or age that causes them to fail?

Do altenators, batteries count? Cause I did change them too... wow that's scary unreliable! :dunno:
 
eagle mark said:
You guys who are afraid of magic EFI and breaking down on side of road have anxiety issues that are unfounded!

My first TBI was a 1987 Short bed 2wd bought 6 months old in 1988. The only things changed were spark plugs, cap and rotor twice along with oil filter at 3K and an air filter ever 5-10K. Never once was I broke down or stranded. Traded it in at 210K.

1991 TBI Extended cab 2wd, same scernario, traded it in at 260K

I still have a 1990 2wd Suburban with original fuel pump and all sensors wiring etc... around 158K in kilometers as it's a forign job from canada, so it's not milage or age that causes them to fail?

Do altenators, batteries count? Cause I did change them too... wow that's scary unreliable! :dunno:
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true...EFI is uber reliable these days, hell the computers will tell you exactly what's wrong when it doesn't.

the only consistent problems I've had with the 3 EFI vehicles I've owned has been the fuel pump. If you're concerned about that stranding you, it's easy enough to a) make an access panel to ease the swap or b) mount an external pump.

my vehicles were pickups, so it was easy enough for me to take the beds off to change the pumps...:waytogo:
 
It's not the fuel pump fault it fails. It's the material used on the strainer rots and you suck fibers into pump that kills it. Never started happening till E fuel.

Go back and read my miles, that was before E fuel... my 1990 Suburban has never... well rarely had E fuel. Not worth the savings per gallon as MPG lost, just does not add up.
 
I tend to agree with the six cylinder motors being ridiculous as far as lasting.

I had a Dodge Aspen station wagon that I drove when I didn't have something else in high school.

Slant 6, 727 no clue what rear end. That slant 6 WOULD NOT DIE !!!!!

Anyway I think a motor can last well past 200k without much issue.

If the paperwork in my Jimmy is to be taken at face value the Jimmy has 385k on the 6.2. No clue if any work has been done to it or not. Really doesn't look like it.

The really crazy thing is when you get to talking to most folks, they will make fun of the ol 6.2, gutless, unreliable, etc. Keep on talking to em though and quite a few have stories of 6.2s going well over 200k.

My high mileage motors have been a 89 Metro 275k on it when the stupid nut that held the air cleaner on rattled loose and somehow found its way down the air filter into the intake.

71 Chevy pickup 350k on it 2 wd ol ranch truck. This motor was still running when I wrecked this truck

72 blazer 250k on it. That one threw a piston threw the block BOOM

Actually I could go on and on. If you take care of a truck there is no reason it shouldn't go 300k plus.

There is a company here in town that a buddy does alot of mechanical work for. All highway time but they don't even consider selling their trucks till 500k.

As far as our trucks go, tbi is hard to beat. Its ultra simple. I know for a fact that at least a couple of the sensors can completely fail and it will still run.
 
eagle mark said:
You guys who are afraid of magic EFI and breaking down on side of road have anxiety issues that are unfounded!
Click to expand...

Human nature, we fear what we don't understand.
I used to fear efi or any electronics on a vehicle for that matter but then I got tired of messing with a choke, running like poo when the temp changes, waiting for the engine to warm up before I could safely drive it so I learned a few things about efi. OEMs put millions into r&d and testing of ecms and components to ensure reliability. When was the last time you heard about an ecm failing? The only trouble efi has is when people put it through environments it was never intended to go.
 
Not a motor for our square bodies but I had a Buick 350/2 Jet Rochester last over 300,000 before I sold the car....3rd car the motor outlasted in fact...it was running when I sold it
 
I'm not denying EFI engines of late are very reliable and efficient,I just dont want to own something I cant fix myself or diagnose ,it would be different if I grew up with them,but being a 50's child,I feel more secure driving something I understand and can work on myself...

I do watch my friend diagnosing newer vehicles and even with his computer scanner and lots of experience,he's come across more than one vehicle with issues he couldn't pin down the cause of,after several other shops gave up trying...others he found something as stupid as a corroded wire in a harness no one else dug deep enough to find,or wires bitten in half by mice in a hard to reach area..

The days of old may be low tech and not as effecient as today,but we always managed to get around before we had computers,EFI,overdrive automnatic transmissions,etc...given the choice of having a truck made in the 2000's quit on the highway and have to be towed to a shop,to hopefully diagnose what is wrong and get it fixed for 500 bucks or more--or having a old 50's to 80's truck I could fix right there and be on my way for probably free or very cheap in comparison--guess which one I'd rather be driving?...yes,I might not have a cushy ride,A/C or GPS,but I will still get where I'm going at least..

I agree the old "ingot" straight sixes were practically indestructible...not to say one cant or wont blow up,but they take a lot of abuse before they do--we tried killing a 232 AMC six in a 66 Rambler on purpose that had a dead cylinder,it ran better with the #3 plug wire OFF than it did connected--we drove that thing HARD a whole winter,the block froze and cracked in december when we couldn't afford antifreeze one night to refill the leaky radiator,and we kept dumping straight water,windsheild washer fluid,and whatever else we could find in the radiator,ran the thing out of oil several times,beat the crap out of the car in a field until the tranny finally blew,but the engine still started and ran...it got so hot running it out of oil and water it actually seized up after 20 minutes ,then after it cooled again,it would start again--just when we thought it was "done" fort good this time!...

The Mopar slant sixes were favorites of local cab companies,mant of them lasted 500K before an overhaul,the fleet at the gas company my dad worked for was mostly all slant six powered dodge vehicles or GM straight sixes,they ran many over 300K with no major issues...almost every vehicle I've owned had well over 100K on them before I ever owned then,some had over 220K,and still ran nice...frequent oil and filter changes will keep most any old engine running good well beyond the lifetime of the chassis it is mounted in...

I was amazed how many sixes at the junkyard started and ran well after sitting decades,when most of the V8's would not even turn over without being freed up first,and many didn't run for long once we did get them to start...

Oldest six we got running there was in a '28 chevy truck,and we didn't even have to put marvel oil in the cylinders or free it up--we just spun it over by hand with a breaker bar to be sure no valves were stuck,and when it turned freely,we just dumped some fresh oil down the carb and chased it with a cup of gas,after changing the oil (which was like mud and tar mixed with water & rust!)...the thing started up after maybe 12 revolutions,ran rough and shook for about 5 minutes,then smoothed right out and purred!...we sold it to a guy who wanted it badly for 500 bucks ,to put in another truck he had like it he had restored..
 
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