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Talk me into a NP205, or not...

MountainmanID

1/2 ton status
Joined
Jun 30, 2018
Posts
110
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Location
North Idaho
So I'm in the process of collecting parts for my K5 build as I will have a 2 post lift with 14' of ceiling above it to do the major work in 2-3 weeks. So far, the truck has 4" blocks in the rear, 4" springs in the front, and all the good stuff like extended brake lines already installed. Stock axles with 3.43 gears (if I read the tags correctly). I have driven it about 100 miles on the 33's it came with and am happy with acceleration and highway RPMs. I recently got a 4.10 LSD D60 from a 67-72 1 Ton to go in the back, so I'll need to move the perches out a little bit.

Plan is to find pretty much any matching 3/4 or 1 ton front axle (hopefully with 4.10s already installed) and put a lockright in it. Springs will stay 52" but the rear will get 4" springs with a DIY4X shackle flip kit, and the front will get 6" springs or some really stout shackles. Body goes up 1.5" or so on UHMW spacers. The goal is to be able to run the truck on 36-37s with decent flex room, which should be easy in the rear since it's getting a flatbed/roll cage back end behind the extended cab. I get a 19.5% difference in gearing with a 12% difference in tire size so I think I'll maintain the decent street-ability, while gaining just enough torque to make up for the heavier tires.

The motor is the original 350 with the same 87k miles the chassis has. Has some headers and an edel street carb that will likely be replaced with some kind of TBI setup I build to run off arduino software.

Trans/XFER case are of course the same original mileage. TH350 to a NP203. The T350 trans shifts and kicksdown great, but the color of the fluid worries me a bit.

The lift and tires were installed long ago and this is apparent whenever you shift from park to drive (CLUNK!!). The NP203's chain is obviously in need of replacement, along with a parttime kit.

So here's the question: Will a rechained 203 with a decent part time kit hold up to around 265HP and 37" tires? I'm not interested in doing a doubler setup based on the very small amount of crawling I plan to do.

I feel like I'd have a better shot of finding a TH400/NP205 combo deal than finding a NP205 with the correct transmission adapter. As a matter of fact there is one of those combos on CL right now for 300 bucks that apparently worked good when pulled from a 1 Ton.

Does anyone running a PT NP203 run 1 ton axles and 37s? They seem more popular on trucks with 31-33" tires.

I'd appreciate some wisdom.
 
I ran one ton axles stock motor and 40s on a 203. The part time kit is the weak part. Unless you have the shaft replacement part time kit. The chain may very well need replaced but if you do I doubt you will ever need to again. 203 will hold up.

Just make sure you use the correct oil in your 203. 30w non detergent oil
 
I say a 241 like above. Just a damn good case. But that 400 205 for 300 bucks is a deal. Snatch that up and send it to me if you dont want it.
 
I think new chains for the 203's are scarce and expensive,from what I've read online..they are a rugged enough T-case but heavy as an ingot,but wont shatter on impact as easy as a die cast NP-241 or 208..

I have a NP-203 I removed from a '77 K2500 GMC that was "skipping" when you took off fast,(It had 454 )--I think the chain was slack in it,I had a NP-205/TH350 already from another donor truck,so I put that in rather than mess with the NP-203..I kept it only because the range box part of it is popular for doublers,but I'll likely never use it..

I agree the TH400/NP-205 is well worth $300..cant buy either one up here that cheap ,unless both need rebuilding..
 
The question is really twofold

Th400 a good solution for a suspect 350?
Yes

Do you wanna buy driveshafts?
Matter of choice
 
and bigger trans = less hp to the wheels .

I have read over the years around 20-25 more hp to spin a th400 over a th350
 
If I had to choose just one tcase (which you don't have to these days) I would go with the NP241.

NP205 is great for strength but after having an NP241 I like the lower lo-range of it much better.
 
@ChrisPerry runs a 350/205 combo in his K5 with....what.....44s? lol
If you want to crawl, 241 with good skid protection. If you want to mud, 205.
Like others have said, the 400 is stronger but heavier and sucks the power to work.
I've got the baby 700, so basically I'm driving with a glass drivetrain (700/241) but I wouldn't trade the 4L for anything.
 
Not terribly worried about driveshaft length since I'm gonna have mine sleeved and extended when I finish all the lifting activities.

Someone beat me to the combo on craigslist.....

How many have done the 241 swap? Are they easier to find than 205s?
 
I just did a 205 to 241 swap, but it's the round bolt pattern, bolted to a 465.

241's are pretty easy to find, any '89-91 V-series that isn't a one ton. The '90-91 doesn't use a speedometer cable, but if you have the donor, that allows you to convert to the later cluster and the ability to correct your speedometer with a bit of easy soldering, if that appeals to you.

I never "tested" the 465/205 combo in low range as I did with the 465/241, but I can walk at my normal pace faster than the 465/241 (3.42/33", same for both setups) combo idles on flat ground.

I like the 241 because it's gear ratios are not 1:1 and ~2:1 like the 205. Low in the 205 was basically whatever the next lower gear was, in high. So 1st/low was the only gearing I couldn't get without simply downshifting.

The 241 2.72:1 makes each gear a fairly significant change.

The 241 is super easy to rebuild, and if you have a 1.5" body lift, without modding the floor you should be able to get 2.5-3" additional clearance if you want to clock it.

Not sure about running a 241 behind a 350, maybe just the 700/241 (and/or 208?) adapter?
 
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From what I have gathered the 241 is a chain drive? Does that jive with the common consensus that chains are evil and shady and should be ditched for helical gears?

Right now these guys are having a hell of a sale on 241s, rebuilt. https://spprecision.com/products/np241-transfer-case-sale.html It would likely be easier for me to swab in a 4L or 700R transmission to find the adapter though, right?
 
From what I have gathered the 241 is a chain drive? Does that jive with the common consensus that chains are evil and shady and should be ditched for helical gears?

Right now these guys are having a hell of a sale on 241s, rebuilt. https://spprecision.com/products/np241-transfer-case-sale.html It would likely be easier for me to swab in a 4L or 700R transmission to find the adapter though, right?

There was some back and forth on the input torque rating for the 205 vs 241, the 241 isn't as "strong", but it's not that far off.

Yes, the 241 is chain drive. If there is any problem with chain drive in general, it appears to be that they simply stretch and need replaced, but that seems to be at the 100,000 mile+ interval for most rigs.

I was paying ~$100 for my 241's, and the rebuild kits, plus a chain, are probably $200 or less. For my money, the 241 is a simpler case than the 205.

No idea what "upgrades" those guys do. They talk about it, don't see anything documenting it.
 
I wouldn’t fuss over strength between the two as long as it’s in proper working condition
 
I'll keep an eye out for one but right now a search on both FB marketplace (as well as the local 4x4 swap FB groups) and craigslist yields 4-5 NP205s and zero 241s. It looks like a swap to anything but the 205 is going to mean a new trans, although that may be necessary anyway....
 
I thought the 350 and 700 (at least until the significantly later 4L60E maybe) shared the same spline count (27) and bolt pattern for the adapter? IIRC there is a spacer available, since the 350 is a bit shorter than the 700, but I'm not sure if that adapter is a necessity because of output shaft length, or if it was used so that the driveshafts didn't have to be changed, or both.

Out in your area I'd think the 700/241 combo would be readily found in rigs getting parted, or from people that believe the 205 is the best t-case ever made and pull the "lesser" chain drive case. Then again, out your way, there may be more 89-91 V-series actually being used than parted out. Here I found a couple of cases that had been pulled and set aside years back, and people just stumble across them years after being put in storage. I'm sure if I kept watching I'd see some 241's pop up in rigs being parted out here.

Heck, I just tore apart an '88 Suburban solely to save the parts from the scrap yard, nothing wrong with the thing other than a broken window and bad trans, guy bought it solely for the motor. Trust me, I'm past *wanting* to do that sort of stuff anymore, but I can't stand to see complete, non-rusty square bodies go to the 'yard, complete, at this point in history. Had it been an '89 or later, I would have grabbed the t-case too.
 
I thought the 350 and 700 (at least until the significantly later 4L60E maybe) shared the same spline count (27) and bolt pattern for the adapter? IIRC there is a spacer available, since the 350 is a bit shorter than the 700, but I'm not sure if that adapter is a necessity because of output shaft length, or if it was used so that the driveshafts didn't have to be changed, or both.

Out in your area I'd think the 700/241 combo would be readily found in rigs getting parted, or from people that believe the 205 is the best t-case ever made and pull the "lesser" chain drive case. Then again, out your way, there may be more 89-91 V-series actually being used than parted out. Here I found a couple of cases that had been pulled and set aside years back, and people just stumble across them years after being put in storage. I'm sure if I kept watching I'd see some 241's pop up in rigs being parted out here.

Heck, I just tore apart an '88 Suburban solely to save the parts from the scrap yard, nothing wrong with the thing other than a broken window and bad trans, guy bought it solely for the motor. Trust me, I'm past *wanting* to do that sort of stuff anymore, but I can't stand to see complete, non-rusty square bodies go to the 'yard, complete, at this point in history. Had it been an '89 or later, I would have grabbed the t-case too.


Out my way (LOL this is North Idaho), they drive whatever works. Not too many people building purpose trucks for work in the snow. It seems like most drivers fit into two (maybe 3) categories: 1. The out of stater (I won't mention his previous address ;)) with a brand new diesel 3/4 ton or $50k toyota SUV (easily spotted by the high number on the license plates and the fact they somehow made it 200 yds off a highway into the woods with a foot of snow), 2. The "N. ID for life" driver that can somehow make a '94 cavalier (pick a shitty car with 300k and a blown headgasket, somehow they make it home) go the distance on highways that I wouldn't take my 40hp 4x4 tractor on, or 3. The driver who's been here a few years and put a small lift and bigger tires on his 1/2-3/4 ton truck or similar sized SUV. The #3 drivers also often have mildly modified diesels with headache racks to haul the playskool plastic cars home for the toddlers, since they've never spent a day on the mountain stacking cords.

I can't easily categorize myself in those 3 categories but from what I've seen, there's a lot of junkyards around with mildly picked trucks. It's way more common to see an ashtray missing than a Xfer case. I'm not familiar with the "V series" label but theres a ton of 89-95 GMC 4x4s rolling around. That could be my problem. A lot of home "mechanics" making Dad's truck work for them in the shade of the Tamaracks (Larch trees) in the backyard.

Perhaps I need to spend more time in the junkyards, or if you happen to see one out your way, I'd make the trip.

EDIT: I was surprised when I moved out here that there seemed to be more lifted 4x4s with 40"+ tires in rural eastern shore MD than here in the mountains. I'm not sure what keeps people from building big trucks out here. Most Marylanders with big tires were just playing in the mud, the biggest elevation change in my county was the county dump which had a landfill elevation differential of 48' and my house was only 12' above sea level. I think a lot of it is people being raised to drive on snow with a stock vehicle and never needing to "cheat" with lockers and big tires. We can run studded tires here from November 1 to April 15, so that helps. I'm still learning the art of Mountain snow driving so I have no problem cheating with aggressive chains and lockers, feeding 3 dozen inches of rubber with 300+ HP. Ideally this truck will be able to go anywhere below 4500' elevation year round....
 
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I'm ultra picky and anal. You can't tell from looking at my truck, but I've gone from auto trans to manual, carb to injection, ten bolt to 14sf, early 465/205, late 465/205, late 465/241. So my opinions on stuff are heavily biased on my own preferences. Imo the old 465/205 (ten spline, tall adapter) is not worth much. Later 32 spline with vss, sure. But the 241 still has better low range and probably weighs at least 25% less. Definitely not as strong a case, but if you don't drop it on a rock, it will be fine.

R/V series is actually what the square bodies are from 87-91 (2 or 4wd respectively). It somewhat helps parts store clerks avoid the mistake
of looking up 88+ C/K parts.
 
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I'm ultra picky and anal. You can't tell from looking at my truck, but I've gone from auto trans to manual, carb to injection, ten bolt to 14sf, early 465/205, late 465/205, late 465/241. So my opinions on stuff are heavily biased on my own preferences. Imo the old 465/205 (ten spline, tall adapter) is not worth much. Later 32 spline with vss, sure. But the 241 still has better low range and probably weighs at least 25% less. Definitely not as strong a case, but if you don't drop it on a rock, it will be fine.

R/V series is actually what the square bodies are from 87-91 (2 or 4wd respectively). It somewhat helps parts store clerks avoid the mistake
of looking up 88+ C/K parts.


I'm a big fan of automatics for 4x4's, not so much for my commuter car. Just a lot of stuff going on when I need to throw that lever for front and rear drive and I don't have the foot dexterity to control a 4x4 on technical stuff with a clutch. I envy guys that can make it happen and also make their clutches last.

From what I've gathered from your post, there are two different input spline counts on the 205? or are you talking about input on the SM465? That could be why there are so many cheap units for sale out here, they are older low spline XFER cases.

I'm kinda stuck here. I almost need to just finish the truck and drive it a few thousand miles to make a decision on the trans and xfer case. If I can't make a 241 mate up to my TH350, its much less of a possibility, unless my t350 turns out to be shit. I'm looking hard at 203/205 doublers, which should work regardless of input on the 205, right? The only indication I have of 203 issues is the clunk when I put it in drive. I was unaware that 203 chains were inobtanium. A 4L60 is more likely than a T400 as they are available rebuilt here for around $800.

I need to read stuff a lot more often. I appreciate all the help from you guys putting things in laymans terms for my 4x4 tech retarded self.

AND NOW I KNOW WHAT A V SERIES IS!
 

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