TBI Crate Motor Recommendations

[dj31499]

Thinking about putting an engine in my 89 Jimmy. So far with the work I’ve done, my objective has been to keep it as close to stock as possible but when it comes to the engine, I’d like something with a bit more power (nothing crazy, 275-300 hp), rather than putting a bone stock 350 back in it. If possible, I’d like to be able to run the TBI system without tampering with it or as little as possible.

I’ve seen that ATK has some crate engines (HP31 and HP05) that offer power in the range I’m looking for, only requiring a ECM chip burn. Has anyone ever dealt with ATK? Are they reputable (quality, advertised power)? I’ve heard mixed things about their customer service so I’m not convinced yet. But the idea of keeping a stock TBI set up and getting the outputs they claim are pretty enticing.

If ATK isn’t a good option, is there any work that can be done on a stock TBI 350 that could be done to reach those numbers that doesn’t require an insane amount of work? Based on my “experience” of tooling around with the truck, I’d feel comfortable enough putting new heads on, maybe a cam. But anything more involved than that is probably out of my skill range.

I know a lot of guys are going to say it probably isn’t worth the effort to try and get the extra horsepower while being straddled by the stock TBI setup, but I’d really like to keep the stock look of everything under the hood; call me crazy I know.

Let me know what you guys think.

 

[Bent77]

“Just burn a chip” means a lot these days, as the list is much shorter of who does those things. You can do it yourself, or even build your own megasquirt computer

Cost will be prohibitive. A chip will be about $300 through Howell, and that’s the path I would take. They will ask you a ton of questions about the truck and the engine first

For the engine, I’d look at putting an aftermarket intake on a L31 crate engine. It most represents what your after, and will retain the drivability and reliability of stock parts (including the injection) as much as possible
I’d look at running fuel pressure around 13-15psi

 

[dyeager535]

Second an L31 crate, although with GM prices now (they were $1900 to your door 5+ years ago) I'd probably look for a rebuilder that is reputable and offers a good warranty vs GM.

Concur with "just a chip burn" as well. An L31 is a pretty mild engine, but makes good power. Over a stock TBI engine I would not swap cams or anything along those lines. Run it stock. No reason the L31 can't be run on TBI, it's a matter of finding someone reputable to do the tuning for you. It's a set it and forget it kind of thing, once it's right you don't mess with it anymore, but that means you better get your modifications done before the burn, otherwise the chip will be sub optimal.

I wouldn't hesitate to throw some good headers on it as well. The Vortec heads
gain another 25hp or so with headers from most tests I've seen, and if you don't mind dealing with the potential hassles for that power, do it upfront so the chip is optimized for them too.

 

[dj31499]

That seems to be most seamless way to go about it; getting the Vortec intake with TBI plenum. As far as compatibility installing an L31, I have a few follow-up questions:
1.) Engine mounts, connecting the 700R4; does it require any mods? I know its a 350 but is the casting the same as an L05, in terms of fitting?
2.) Serpentine setup any different? I'm assuming I'll have to buy everything that's belt driven for a Vortec, but how would you go about get the AC Compressor on the passenger side where all the AC stuff is if a Vortec belt drive has it on the driver's side?
3.) I'll have to check out Howell a little more, but does anyone make an TBI ECM that is tuned for an L31? Even if it's has to be custom done, will Howell do that sort of work?
4.) Lastly, the headers. I've got a set of Hooker's (not sure the p/n, they came on the truck when I bought it), but they're such a pain to work around; changing spark plugs is a chore. What do guys usually run that doesn't make working in there a total nightmare?

I really appreciate the input guys, thanks a lot.

 

[dyeager535]

Vortec block will bolt in the same as the TBI engine. Flexplate should interchange as the '87 should be a one piece rear main seal as well.

Accessories all bolt up the same.

I've not used Howell, but I'd think they would have done similar TBI/Vortec before and have a good idea where to start. I suppose it doesn't have to be custom, but I doubt anyone has an off the shelf TBI/L31 chip you can just buy.

There is a massive header thread on here, Hedmans 69230 is I believe the header that fits basically all our trucks. They even have stainless if you want to shell out the bucks for them. Plugs 5 and 6 IIRC are a bit of a pain to get to (can't get a normal socket on them) but other than that I don't find them tough to work with. Most headers most of the tubes seem to screw with plug access.

 

[sweetk30]

i have 87-up serp belt stuff on my 96-up L31 vortec .

any change to the tbi engine basically = burn a chip

howell efi is a good guy for tbi chips . he is the guy who has been burning the chips 20+ years .

 

[dj31499]

After your guys advice and talking to some other guys (Harristuning and SPR perfromance), this is what I've got as a build sheet:
96-00 Vortec 350 4 bolt main from perfromance products (was recommended them by a friend): https://www.powertrainproducts.net/chevy-350-vortec-5-7-V8-engine-96-00-4-bolt-main-p/1044.htm

Brian from Harris tuning recommended the 2716 Edlebrock intake with an adapter from SPR, along with an vortec fuel pump capable of supplying 18 psi of fuel pressure:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-2716
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ado-ep381
https://www.ebay.com/itm/264512822166?hash=item3d96315b96:g:zlMAAOxyqUpQ70Jf

Based on these upgrades, I can fill out a form on Harris tuning and a PCM tuned. Any objections/red flags?

 

[dyeager535]

Harris is/was TBIchips.com right? Some REAL bad experiences with him over the years that I've seen. If Howell does it, I'd go with Howell.

There is a factory TBI Vortec intake out there (was used in vans, pretty rare apparently) but if I could get my hands on one of those I'd probably want to do that. I can't believe that intake is so pricey, but I haven't looked at them in awhile, maybe that is the norm anymore.

EP381 pump is a good choice.

Someone might answer if you need the timing cover or not. Cannot recall if the TBI engine and Vortec share timing covers...Vortec is setup for a crank sensor, but outside of that, which you don't need, if the cover interchanges you won't need that. New balancer will be a good idea. Valve covers will interchange.

 

[sweetk30]

All them parts and price point and a fixed burn chip . . . . Only reason to stay tbi is if stock or you can tune your own chips .

If me skip all that and go edelbrock pro-flo 4 sequential port efi . Better results and later upgrades are easy .

Been running 1 on my plow truck 3+ years no problems .

 

[dj31499]

Will reach out to Howell today to see if they do it.

I also remember seeing people talk about the intake you mentioned; I think it was '96 vans that had it. You're right about the prices though, they're pretty crazy now. A lot of the stuff isn't even in stock, but that's true for most things now I guess lol.

As for the timing cover, I'd probably just get it with the block from performance products and avoid the hassle of trying to piece it together with what I have now. Most of it's pretty tired anyway. Thanks for pointing that out though.

 

[dyeager535]

You'll need a plug for the CPS if you run the Vortec one. Yet another nickel and dime item lol.

I wouldn't discount an aftermarket system, but my suspicion is that any of the (good) aftermarket EFI systems will be quite a bit more expensive than a chip burn. Would not hurt to add up the costs for TBI vs. aftermarket, but if you can be content with the L31 as-is, and will need no modifications down the road, there isn't a whole lot of downside to running TBI. New chip, might need an adjustable fuel pressure regulator, that should be it?

I've not seen that there is a lot of power to be made in a normally aspirated induction system (especially with a stock engine...sequential vs. batch fire was only worth 5hp), it really comes down to driveability, and in my experience, it doesn't matter what type of EFI you are talking about, they all are better for all around use than carburetors. That's my personal take.

But, if engine modifications are even a glimmer in your eye for down the road, TBI is going to be a real limiting factor.

 

[Chickntrk]

Late to the party but I’ve not seen much good come from ATK….one I saw had one piston .010 the rest were stock, one lasted a few weeks and both head gaskets blew. It’s my understanding that they check all the core parts and if they are within the spec of that particular part they get saved for a different engine. So you may get 8 pistons and rods all from different engines.

 

[dyeager535]

Any complete engine I could get I would want a VERY good warranty. Even with GM you never know if an assembler was having a bad day, but even more so from the aftermarket rebuilders.

Really doesn't seem to be any way around it, of the major rebuilders I'm aware of, none seem to have a sterling reputation.

 

[Chickntrk]

Always read the fine print too, some rebuilders only warranty them if they are installed by a shop or cut the warranty back significantly if you do it yourself

 

[scouthead]

After your guys advice and talking to some other guys (Harristuning and SPR perfromance), this is what I've got as a build sheet:
96-00 Vortec 350 4 bolt main from perfromance products (was recommended them by a friend): https://www.powertrainproducts.net/chevy-350-vortec-5-7-V8-engine-96-00-4-bolt-main-p/1044.htm

Brian from Harris tuning recommended the 2716 Edlebrock intake with an adapter from SPR, along with an vortec fuel pump capable of supplying 18 psi of fuel pressure:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-2716
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ado-ep381
https://www.ebay.com/itm/264512822166?hash=item3d96315b96:g:zlMAAOxyqUpQ70Jf

Based on these upgrades, I can fill out a form on Harris tuning and a PCM tuned. Any objections/red flags?

i have a chip from him... lets turn that advance up all the way!! hey look- it feels more powerful! and it overheats every time you rev the engine!
too complicated for a mail order solution. i would not do it again and would not recommend. Maybe if he is willing to fly out and drive your truck for a week while burning a dozen chips and checking them

 

[dj31499]

i have a chip from him... lets turn that advance up all the way!! hey look- it feels more powerful! and it overheats every time you rev the engine!
too complicated for a mail order solution. i would not do it again and would not recommend. Maybe if he is willing to fly out and drive your truck for a week while burning a dozen chips and checking them

Did you end up going with someone else for a chip? If so, who?

 

[1-ton]

Late to the party but I’ve not seen much good come from ATK….one I saw had one piston .010 the rest were stock, one lasted a few weeks and both head gaskets blew. It’s my understanding that they check all the core parts and if they are within the spec of that particular part they get saved for a different engine. So you may get 8 pistons and rods all from different engines.

Jasper Engines are not much better. BluePrint Engines seem to have a pretty decent history.

 

[1-ton]

My Goodwrench direct replacement TBI/swirl port crate engine.

 

[dj31499]

Also haven't seen any horror stories from Blue Print; just browsing their site I found this:

TBI Truck 1987-1995 - GM Small Block Compatible 350 c.i. Engine - Long Block

BluePrint Engines 350 c.i. TBI small block truck 1987 -1995 GM style crate engine - dressed longblock. Includes 30 month / 50,000 warranty & BPE Dyno Promise. Part #: BP350TBICT

blueprintengines.com

Seems like I'd be leaving some power on the table by going with it, but I'm starting to get lost in the weeds with a Vortec swap; seems like a lot of hassle without a lot of definitive answers or reputable sources in terms of tuning.

Bluepoint advertise 260 hp/342 torque, and the only thing different seems to be the cam; can you get those numbers just from a cam swap? If so, I might just run with it. Let me know what you think.
Again, thanks for all your input I really appreciate it.

 

[flatland]

Great timing!
I have a Blazer that will soon be ready for a new engine, and considering these same questions. Also hoping to find an acceptable upgrade while staying with TBI.I'll be following closely.

Maybe Folkenheath can give us some insight. I'd like to support a forum member with my purchases if I can.