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The Story Of A Cummins Suburban (Lots Of Pics)
- Thread starter mosesburb
- Start date
sixb
1/2 ton status
Really cool build, I'm kinda doing the same thing with an 84 k5 (Ck5 project in the garage). I am curious about your exhaust clearance at your t-case, it looks like it dosen't even tuck into the rails at all. I am concerned about my brake lines so close to the exhaust and have considered moving them to the passenger side, I have not yet gotten that far yet though so we will see. I wonder if your frame is wider than mine because mines looks like it will be tight.
I will have to figure out how to subcribe to this and find some time to really read through it throughly.
I will have to figure out how to subcribe to this and find some time to really read through it throughly.
jimbug
1/2 ton status
Looks sweet with the dog dish hubcaps! Can't wait to see it blowing smoke..... HINT HINT (a blackedout picture would be nice)
Yeah, I'm liking the look more and more. Everybody who has stopped by or seen pics likes it as well.
I got it emission tested and got plates on it last week. Passed the test easily. I also got the windshield replaced (I have gotten pulled over for that before). So, other than wipers, this thing is legal.
After I got the glass done, I had to go to the parts house to get something and there is a hundred and one ways to get there from where I was to where I needed to be, so I chose the freeway. 6500lbs of untested iron at speed--what's the worst that could happen?? It drove nicer at 60-65 than it does at 40 around town. It drives real nice with the "old man" tires on it. It gets from 55-75 quite quickly, hehehe. When I first drove it it was pretty squirrely, but it got much better after I re-centered the steering box and clicked the front shocks up a notch.
It runs pretty good. It has decent power, but I need to turn at least one screw on the injection pump. Low boost fueling is lacking, thus no smoke show for you. There is a small amount, but not so much to make it a barrel of monkey to drive. It is a simple mod, but right now I am concentrating on a few other things, so it will come in time.
I aam getting close on some creature comfort type things, so hopefully I can post up some progress real soon.
I got it emission tested and got plates on it last week. Passed the test easily. I also got the windshield replaced (I have gotten pulled over for that before). So, other than wipers, this thing is legal.
After I got the glass done, I had to go to the parts house to get something and there is a hundred and one ways to get there from where I was to where I needed to be, so I chose the freeway. 6500lbs of untested iron at speed--what's the worst that could happen?? It drove nicer at 60-65 than it does at 40 around town. It drives real nice with the "old man" tires on it. It gets from 55-75 quite quickly, hehehe. When I first drove it it was pretty squirrely, but it got much better after I re-centered the steering box and clicked the front shocks up a notch.
It runs pretty good. It has decent power, but I need to turn at least one screw on the injection pump. Low boost fueling is lacking, thus no smoke show for you. There is a small amount, but not so much to make it a barrel of monkey to drive. It is a simple mod, but right now I am concentrating on a few other things, so it will come in time.
I aam getting close on some creature comfort type things, so hopefully I can post up some progress real soon.
Thanks!!
I saw your build--looks good!! Isn't it alot of fun?!? (Sadistically speaking, of course)
I will have to take a look at the exhaust clearance. I recall there being a bunch of it, but it has been awhile. It seems to be a difficult area to photograph as well. The rails on this are the same width as the rails on yours. I actually tried a crossmember out of an '80's truck before I built my own. It was the right width, but the wrong shape. Part of my abundance of clearance may be because I set my motor so low. It bit me in the ass several times, but actually helped me a few times as well--this being one of them.
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Better pack a lunch if you plan to read it all in one sitting.
jimbug
1/2 ton status
What size are your old man tires? Mine was seper squirrelly on that first drive home too! You probably are just used to the awesome responsiveness that your trAcktor at work provides! Nothing quite like the feel of 37 yearold agility!
Tires are 235 85 R16s. Uh, yeah, if this thing drove like the tractor I have been driving lately, I'd already have the front end scattered across the driveway with new parts going in. It actually drives pretty good. It has some strange tendancies once in awhile, but they are somewhat predictable.
I have a bunch of pics to post, but my photobucket is at its limit for the month, so I have to wait for about a week to start with the pics again. I have got the interior mostly done. The wipers are on it. There are a few little things that I need to do to it, but I have gotten most of the big stuff done. I held off starting to drive it because I knew once I started, that would be the end of working on it for awhile. I was right. All I do is drive this thing now. I have somewhere around seven or eight hundred miles on it. I drove it to work everyday for about 2-1/2 weeks. The A/C works good at 110* and it works great below 105*. If it is under 100* it will freeze you out even without the rear a/c on.
The interior noise level is acceptable. I was worried about droan, but it is not too bad at all. The ONLY squeak/rattle is coming from the rear tail gate and hatch. I have new weatherstrip, but I am going to save that for the replacement gate and hatch that I have for it. I actually put some generic weatherstrip on the two parts and that quieted it right down.
I filled it with fuel and weighed it. Anybody want to take a guess at its weight and mileage??
I have a bunch of pics to post, but my photobucket is at its limit for the month, so I have to wait for about a week to start with the pics again. I have got the interior mostly done. The wipers are on it. There are a few little things that I need to do to it, but I have gotten most of the big stuff done. I held off starting to drive it because I knew once I started, that would be the end of working on it for awhile. I was right. All I do is drive this thing now. I have somewhere around seven or eight hundred miles on it. I drove it to work everyday for about 2-1/2 weeks. The A/C works good at 110* and it works great below 105*. If it is under 100* it will freeze you out even without the rear a/c on.
The interior noise level is acceptable. I was worried about droan, but it is not too bad at all. The ONLY squeak/rattle is coming from the rear tail gate and hatch. I have new weatherstrip, but I am going to save that for the replacement gate and hatch that I have for it. I actually put some generic weatherstrip on the two parts and that quieted it right down.
I filled it with fuel and weighed it. Anybody want to take a guess at its weight and mileage??
eblick
1/2 ton status
6500Lbs and 18mpg?
Yukon Jack
1/2 ton status
I'm gonna say 7200 lbs and 21 mpg.
Czechsix
Registered Member
8700 and 16 on the freeway, 14 - 16 around town, 11 towing, 21 driving like a pussy
I used to own a 1989 dodge cummins 4x4 with a getrag 5 spd. a 6" lift and 35" tires. I never thought twice about driving that thing anywhere, a truly reliable rig, with thousands of offroad miles. The temp guage never moved and the mpg never changed. When I parted with it I did so only to buy a brand new one in 04. Now that I am on the power train stage of my 69 sub project, this build makes me green with envy. I don't have the time, resources, or money for such an undertaking, but I am happy to see that you have triumphed in your build. Job well done!
A fuzz high on both counts. My K30 DRW 6.2L with three full tanks of fuel was right at 7200lbs.
Way high on weight but one of your mileages is close.
You win!! I guessed 6500lbs myself and we were both 80lbs off. It scaled right at 6420lbs and the first tank of fuel netted me 19.5 mpg. There was a 95mi round trip of highway driving on it. The next tank of in town and significant rush-hour traffic with a/c netted 16.6 mpg. My major problem is I have WAAAAAYYY too much gear. I did the math and *ideally* I should run 3.23 gears. Now I would not go that high, but I have a complete 3.54 D70 out of a Dodge with a Cummins, but I started investigating the cost of freshening it up and then re-gearing my D60 for the front and figured for that amount of money I can buy a bunch of fuel, so for now the 4.10s stay. A higher gear would make it more fun to drive though.....
Wow. Thank you!! You have a nice Sub there yourself. I do not blame you for not wanting to go through this too--I do not think I would do it again myself. Now that it is somewhat done, I am enjoying it, it is fun to drive, but if I had done something different (like leave the big block alone) I could have been enjoying it all this time instead of watching it sit in my driveway. Oh well, too late now.
Jason4x4
1/2 ton status
hmm, you should donate the d70 to mee.... 
BUDDY
1/2 ton status
Nothing that a set of 37's wouldn't fix. Bring it AWN!!!
Keep it low, just a 4" lift & trim & you're all set!!
Later,
Buddy
Well, I can't find the pics I want to post, but I have been driving the hell out of this thing so I figured an update is due. With the price of diesel fuel and the mileage this gets, it is the most economical vehicle I own (never saw that coming).
Had a minor major issue awhile back when the anti-rotation strap on my fan clutch, which was designed to always be in tension, went into compression for some unknown reason. When this happened it bowed the strap enough for the fan blade to hit it and shove it into the radiator wrecking the fan and putting a pinhole in the edge of about six tubes of the radiator. Not bad. I drove it home, tore it down and took the radiator to get fixed. Well the repair did not go so well and the core got ruined, so I ended up buying a new radiator. The fan blade got dinked up a bit, so I got a new one of those also. I went with a small block fan this time as the big block fan took so much power to turn and even above 110* the fan clutch never came on for temperature--it only came on for the a/c pressure or by the manual switch. It was horrendously loud also. The one thing I did not check was how overdriven the fan pulley is on the Cummins versus the big block. At about 2k on the Cummins it sounds like about 5k with the big block. I will not know how well it works until next summer, but for now it is fine as it never turns on with the current temps. I replaced the anti-rotation strap with a piece of 1x1/8" flat stock with steel locknuts on the ends so it can move without destroying what it is bolted to. The thing I wonder about this carnage is why it waited 1100 miles to happen. Oh well.
Then last week, I get off the freeway towards work and notice I can't see out the back window very well. Hmmm, it was not that dirty when I left the house. Hmmm. What could do that?? Hmmm. I get to work and look underneath the truck and the whole underside is dripping what appears to be enigne oil. Oh my, this can not be good. It wasn't. Come to find out, the input shaft seal on the injection pump decided to take the day off without telling me, allowing fuel to flow freely into the crankcase. I had it hauled home and picked up the seal the next day. I actually picked up a pump reseal kit. It has a bunch more parts than a q-jet kit and only cost $19.50. Got home that night and pulled the injection pump out to change the seal. While it was out, I removed a child-proof cap off of one of the adjustment screws on the pump and gave it a couple turns in. When I drained the oil I figured I should use a five gallon bucket just in case it has way more than the 11qts of oil. Well, it did. I drained SIX GALLONS of liquid that looked like oil, but flowed and smelled just like diesel fuel out of it. I checked with a friend of mine at a heavy truck dealer and got his recommendation on an oil change interval and what to look for. He said watch the blowby and the oil pressure. My oil pressure had dropped significantly, but I did not know if that was due to bearing issues or just no viscosity.
After the oil change, my oil pressure is right where it used to be and there is no blowby to speak of, so I would say the bullet got dodged. When I reinstalled the injection pump, I advanced it a bit and that, coupled with the turning of the screw that no longer has the child-proof cap on it resulted in a whole ton more power--holy cow. This thing moved before, but it flat hauls now. Running down the freeway seems like it requires less effort and the whole sound of the motor has changed. All that from an advance and turning a screw a couple turns--wow.
So all seems well now. Runs good, drives good. I am getting the D60F put together, so that should be going in soon hopefully.
Had a minor major issue awhile back when the anti-rotation strap on my fan clutch, which was designed to always be in tension, went into compression for some unknown reason. When this happened it bowed the strap enough for the fan blade to hit it and shove it into the radiator wrecking the fan and putting a pinhole in the edge of about six tubes of the radiator. Not bad. I drove it home, tore it down and took the radiator to get fixed. Well the repair did not go so well and the core got ruined, so I ended up buying a new radiator. The fan blade got dinked up a bit, so I got a new one of those also. I went with a small block fan this time as the big block fan took so much power to turn and even above 110* the fan clutch never came on for temperature--it only came on for the a/c pressure or by the manual switch. It was horrendously loud also. The one thing I did not check was how overdriven the fan pulley is on the Cummins versus the big block. At about 2k on the Cummins it sounds like about 5k with the big block. I will not know how well it works until next summer, but for now it is fine as it never turns on with the current temps. I replaced the anti-rotation strap with a piece of 1x1/8" flat stock with steel locknuts on the ends so it can move without destroying what it is bolted to. The thing I wonder about this carnage is why it waited 1100 miles to happen. Oh well.
Then last week, I get off the freeway towards work and notice I can't see out the back window very well. Hmmm, it was not that dirty when I left the house. Hmmm. What could do that?? Hmmm. I get to work and look underneath the truck and the whole underside is dripping what appears to be enigne oil. Oh my, this can not be good. It wasn't. Come to find out, the input shaft seal on the injection pump decided to take the day off without telling me, allowing fuel to flow freely into the crankcase. I had it hauled home and picked up the seal the next day. I actually picked up a pump reseal kit. It has a bunch more parts than a q-jet kit and only cost $19.50. Got home that night and pulled the injection pump out to change the seal. While it was out, I removed a child-proof cap off of one of the adjustment screws on the pump and gave it a couple turns in. When I drained the oil I figured I should use a five gallon bucket just in case it has way more than the 11qts of oil. Well, it did. I drained SIX GALLONS of liquid that looked like oil, but flowed and smelled just like diesel fuel out of it. I checked with a friend of mine at a heavy truck dealer and got his recommendation on an oil change interval and what to look for. He said watch the blowby and the oil pressure. My oil pressure had dropped significantly, but I did not know if that was due to bearing issues or just no viscosity.
After the oil change, my oil pressure is right where it used to be and there is no blowby to speak of, so I would say the bullet got dodged. When I reinstalled the injection pump, I advanced it a bit and that, coupled with the turning of the screw that no longer has the child-proof cap on it resulted in a whole ton more power--holy cow. This thing moved before, but it flat hauls now. Running down the freeway seems like it requires less effort and the whole sound of the motor has changed. All that from an advance and turning a screw a couple turns--wow.
So all seems well now. Runs good, drives good. I am getting the D60F put together, so that should be going in soon hopefully.
Wrench
1/2 ton status
I'm about to embark on a similar journey installing a 1991 Cummins/NV4500/NP205 in an '82 K30 crew cab dually. I keep re-reading this thread 
for inspiration.
Looking good!!
for inspiration. Looking good!!
I'm about to embark on a similar journey installing a 1991 Cummins/NV4500/NP205 in an '82 K30 crew cab dually. I keep re-reading this thread
Looking good!!
Thanks!! In my opinion, doing it sucks. But, once it is done and the misery of the conversion starts to pass, it becomes pretty cool.
I have had a couple request for information about my windshield wiper wet arms. I was never a fan of the piston pump and metal nozzles that must be aimed, but require a different adjustment for no/low/high speed travel. I have adjusted the nozzles before and had decent success, but I really like wet arms (washer nozzles on the wiper arm).
I started looking around for vehicles that have the wet arms from the factory and came to the realization that GM trucks from '85-'91 came equipped with them. Being these are easy to find in wrecking yards, I chose to use most of this setup. Here are the major components (less reservoir, pump and hose):
The "Y" fitting in the middle takes the 7/32" id hose from the pump and splits it to two 5/32" id hoses that go to the metal tubes that have the brackets on them. These tubes serve two purposes: one is they reduce the hose from 5/32" id hose to 3/32" id hose (this is specific hose made for wet arms), the other purpose is to have a fixed point for the arm-hose to attach. The two long black plastic things are hose supports that attach the hose to the underside of the arm. The two little things on the ends are the actual nozzles. They do not look like anything special, but these things flow some serious liquid.
One of the problems of converting to wet arms is the original arms do not lend themselves well to nozzle attachment or aim. The factory we arms have a different blade attachment style than the original blades:
The original arms have the blades attaching inline with the arm. The factory wet arm has the blade offset just above the arm with the nozzle right below it. The nozzle sprays liquid parallel with the blade. This is where the biggest problem arises in the conversion. If the nozzle was to be put on the original arm, it would have to be placed further down the arm so it would be at an angle to the blade instead of parallel with it. I debated quite a bit on this and finally decided to make a hybrid of the two arms. I took the base of an original arm and removed the blade end from it. Then, I took a factory wet arm and removed the blade end to use with the base of the original arm. I had to shorten the blade end of the factory wet arm, drill a couple holes to match up with the base of the original arm and bend the end for the spring to attach to. I then used standard pop rivets and put the arms together:
(Original top, hybrid arm middle, OE wet arm asm bottom)
After the arms are made, the hose must be run up the underside of the arm. My local mom and pop parts house was able to acquire the wet arm hose for this purpose. Fishing it up through the spring was not too much fun, but I was able to get it through. After it exits the spring it goes into the black plastic channel that supports it until it gets to the nozzle (channel gets shortened about one inch).
The hole in the arm is a locating hole for the nozzle:
In all of my shopping I ended up using an '85-'91 reservoir. It had to fit in a very undesireable location (but the only location it would fit), and that reservoir fit perfectly. Normally, white plastic is cheap from GM, but this reservoir was not--in fact it was something like forty bones. That being the case, I purchased a used one. I like the reservoir because it has an integral pump that is hidden behind the reservoir itself. I bought a new pump kit for it: (Old parts pictured)
Normally, I only buy Delco parts for my rides, but this Anco kit has the same pump as a Delco kit as they probably were the original supplier for it to GM. The little white thing is a check valve so the lines will stay full of fluid and decrease the amount of time for the spray to occur.
Installation of the arms was the same as original, but there is a hose to deal with now. This is no big issue other than there is not quite enough room for the hose to squeeze through the hole with the wiper trunion and the cowl screen. I ground a small amount out of the id of the hole and made enough room for the hose to coexist with the trunion:
The only part from the C/K system that I did not use was the steel tubes with the tabs on them. I could not figure out a way to make either of them work on either side. Also to use them would have required a large amount of material to be removed from the cowl screen. I figured another system must use something different. I found that the Astro/Safari vans have wet arms also and use a simple plastic reducer/connector at the base of the arms. It can be removed without removing the arm or the cowl screen from the van. Work it out of hiding with a pair of needle nose pliers, then cut it off with a knife--do not try to pull it out of the hose or it will probably break.
I used all GM components from the same vehicle type (except for the aforementioned pieces from the Astro/Safari, but the diameters were the same as the C/K stuff) so that I would be dealing with a whole engineered system--not trying to reinvent it myself.
So, with all of this work, I sure hoped it would work. Holy cow, does it ever. I do NOT use it in heavy traffic because so much water comes out that I can not see through the water until the wiper blade clears it off. No piston pump washer/wiper setup I have ever used worked half as well as this setup does. It was a fantastic mod that I am very glad that I took the time to do.
I started looking around for vehicles that have the wet arms from the factory and came to the realization that GM trucks from '85-'91 came equipped with them. Being these are easy to find in wrecking yards, I chose to use most of this setup. Here are the major components (less reservoir, pump and hose):
The "Y" fitting in the middle takes the 7/32" id hose from the pump and splits it to two 5/32" id hoses that go to the metal tubes that have the brackets on them. These tubes serve two purposes: one is they reduce the hose from 5/32" id hose to 3/32" id hose (this is specific hose made for wet arms), the other purpose is to have a fixed point for the arm-hose to attach. The two long black plastic things are hose supports that attach the hose to the underside of the arm. The two little things on the ends are the actual nozzles. They do not look like anything special, but these things flow some serious liquid.
One of the problems of converting to wet arms is the original arms do not lend themselves well to nozzle attachment or aim. The factory we arms have a different blade attachment style than the original blades:
The original arms have the blades attaching inline with the arm. The factory wet arm has the blade offset just above the arm with the nozzle right below it. The nozzle sprays liquid parallel with the blade. This is where the biggest problem arises in the conversion. If the nozzle was to be put on the original arm, it would have to be placed further down the arm so it would be at an angle to the blade instead of parallel with it. I debated quite a bit on this and finally decided to make a hybrid of the two arms. I took the base of an original arm and removed the blade end from it. Then, I took a factory wet arm and removed the blade end to use with the base of the original arm. I had to shorten the blade end of the factory wet arm, drill a couple holes to match up with the base of the original arm and bend the end for the spring to attach to. I then used standard pop rivets and put the arms together:
(Original top, hybrid arm middle, OE wet arm asm bottom)
After the arms are made, the hose must be run up the underside of the arm. My local mom and pop parts house was able to acquire the wet arm hose for this purpose. Fishing it up through the spring was not too much fun, but I was able to get it through. After it exits the spring it goes into the black plastic channel that supports it until it gets to the nozzle (channel gets shortened about one inch).
The hole in the arm is a locating hole for the nozzle:
In all of my shopping I ended up using an '85-'91 reservoir. It had to fit in a very undesireable location (but the only location it would fit), and that reservoir fit perfectly. Normally, white plastic is cheap from GM, but this reservoir was not--in fact it was something like forty bones. That being the case, I purchased a used one. I like the reservoir because it has an integral pump that is hidden behind the reservoir itself. I bought a new pump kit for it: (Old parts pictured)
Normally, I only buy Delco parts for my rides, but this Anco kit has the same pump as a Delco kit as they probably were the original supplier for it to GM. The little white thing is a check valve so the lines will stay full of fluid and decrease the amount of time for the spray to occur.
Installation of the arms was the same as original, but there is a hose to deal with now. This is no big issue other than there is not quite enough room for the hose to squeeze through the hole with the wiper trunion and the cowl screen. I ground a small amount out of the id of the hole and made enough room for the hose to coexist with the trunion:
The only part from the C/K system that I did not use was the steel tubes with the tabs on them. I could not figure out a way to make either of them work on either side. Also to use them would have required a large amount of material to be removed from the cowl screen. I figured another system must use something different. I found that the Astro/Safari vans have wet arms also and use a simple plastic reducer/connector at the base of the arms. It can be removed without removing the arm or the cowl screen from the van. Work it out of hiding with a pair of needle nose pliers, then cut it off with a knife--do not try to pull it out of the hose or it will probably break.
I used all GM components from the same vehicle type (except for the aforementioned pieces from the Astro/Safari, but the diameters were the same as the C/K stuff) so that I would be dealing with a whole engineered system--not trying to reinvent it myself.
So, with all of this work, I sure hoped it would work. Holy cow, does it ever. I do NOT use it in heavy traffic because so much water comes out that I can not see through the water until the wiper blade clears it off. No piston pump washer/wiper setup I have ever used worked half as well as this setup does. It was a fantastic mod that I am very glad that I took the time to do.
StevoandaRedK5
1/2 ton status
that's awesome! nice job
