The Story Of A Cummins Suburban (Lots Of Pics)

[82355]

An '84 what?

I just went and looked, and I was right, a Case IH 3594 still used the Case engine. The Magnum uses the 8.3 though. I think the Maxxums used the 5.9.

Yep, but I am not sure when they first started. I am finding 1990.

I am more versed in the Ag end of it though, CASE Industrial stuff is completely foreign to me.

Martin

 

[DEMON44]

A backhoe. No idea what model.

 

[82355]

I guess I should mention I am not trying to call you out, it just piqued my interest.

Martin

 

[DEMON44]

A quick google shows the history, of B series production beginning in 1984. It wasn't.designed.for.pickup trucks. It was designed by case and cummins to be a medium duty and industrial engine. Dodge came in after the fact and thought it would be a.great idea to put into pickups, because.they didn't have a diesel option and the others did.


http://www.allpar.com/mopar/cummins-diesel.html

 

[max 02]

My brother ran a skidder with a 5.9 in it. Not sure but I think it was a TimberJack.

He said the fuel pump went out on it one day so they stole the one off the dodge truck to finish the day and replaced it for the ride home.

 

[DEMON44]

*short hijack*

Some folks just don't have perspective on some things like from an OEM perspective. The B cummins engines in pickups are just a drop in the bucket to cummins. There's way more of them in generators and industrial applications, than pickups. Same scenario as Caterpillars on road engine program. As you may know Cat quit making them for onroad use in 2010. You think wow there's was alot of cat engines around, well that was such an insignificant portion of Caterpillars revenue stream they had no problem axing onroad engines entirely.

Our 30,000lb Taylor articulated 4wd forklift has a commonrail B cummins in it as well.

 

[82355]

Yeah, we use them on all of our wells. Starting next year they are going to have emissions on them.....

Martin

 

[mosesburb]

Yeah, we use them on all of our wells. Starting next year they are going to have emissions on them.....

Martin

Does this mean they will have emission controls or does this mean an EPA revenue agent is going to measure exhaust emissions/opacity and charge you accordingly?? Or both??

 

[mosesburb]

Well, with all this chat about oil coolers I think I should give an update here. In trying to consolidate my biohazard by separating as much of the oil and coolant as I could, I stumbled across the box with my old oil coler core in it. I had been trying to devise a way to pressure test it to see exactly where it failed. I decided that since I drained the cooling system through the oil pan drain plug I should be able to fill the cooler with water and notice a massive leak pretty quickly.

So I did. I filled it with water and let it sit.

And sit.

And sit.

I guess it has been about a week and a half now and it is still holding water and there is no hint of moisture near where the cooler is sitting, leading me to believe what the first person I called after the catastrophe had told me. He told me most likely the gasket failed and not the cooler. Now, I had no reason to doubt him, but in my situation, being far from home and on a very tight time-frame, I opted to change everything in the hole to be as sure as I could that everything was tip-top and ready for the 425 mile trip home through the Great Sonoran Desert.

It's good to know that the cooler didn't fail. I will now recommend oil cooler gasket changes to everybody I know that has a B series motor. They are not difficult to do in a controlled environment and the mess they can prevent makes the effort well-worth the time.

 

[y5mgisi]

Quite interesting.

 

[82355]

Does this mean they will have emission controls or does this mean an EPA revenue agent is going to measure exhaust emissions/opacity and charge you accordingly?? Or both??

No, they are going to install emissions on the new engines sold. New tractors have had emissions for a few years now.

Martin

 

[BadDog]

I will now recommend oil cooler gasket changes to everybody I know that has a B series motor. They are not difficult to do in a controlled environment and the mess they can prevent makes the effort well-worth the time.

Of course in my case, the old gasket would have outlasted the motor, the new gasket will be defective and last only till the next time I'm 500 miles from home, 2 bolts will twist off removing, I'll need at least 4 stitches from the inevitable gasket scraper slip, 2 more bolt holes will strip installing, and the couplers will never again quit leaking... if I'm "lucky" that day, otherwise it could get bad...

 

[mtnman]

Of course in my case, the old gasket would have outlasted the motor, the new gasket will be defective and last only till the next time I'm 500 miles from home, 2 bolts will twist off removing, I'll need at least 4 stitches from the inevitable gasket scraper slip, 2 more bolt holes will strip installing, and the couplers will never again quit leaking... if I'm "lucky" that day, otherwise it could get bad...

 

[DEMON44]

Generally in the engine shops I've worked for in the past. All coolers get tested with pressurized air submerged in a hot water tank. And you find the bubbles. Unfortunately how you have it rigged up we've found to be inaccurate. Atmospheric temperatures and pressures just won't find most cooler failures.

 

[82355]

Yeah, unless you had it pressurized, it's not much of a test.

Martin

 

[mosesburb]

Of course in my case, the old gasket would have outlasted the motor, the new gasket will be defective and last only till the next time I'm 500 miles from home, 2 bolts will twist off removing, I'll need at least 4 stitches from the inevitable gasket scraper slip, 2 more bolt holes will strip installing, and the couplers will never again quit leaking... if I'm "lucky" that day, otherwise it could get bad...

You were definitely there in spirit......

The inner edge of the opening was cast (obviously) and where the gasket surface was machined it became a serrated blade that left me with many cuts on various fingers. You could have turned it into severed limbs though....

 

[mosesburb]

Generally in the engine shops I've worked for in the past. All coolers get tested with pressurized air submerged in a hot water tank. And you find the bubbles. Unfortunately how you have it rigged up we've found to be inaccurate. Atmospheric temperatures and pressures just won't find most cooler failures.

Yeah, unless you had it pressurized, it's not much of a test.

Martin

I agree to some extent. I would definitely not put it back into service without a submerged pressure test, but I believe my findings are accurate enough because when I was draining my cooling system through the oil pan on a non-running, non-pressurized, cold motor, the coolant was free(!!) flowing. With that quantity of flow, if the cooler was leaking it would be very obvious or at least noticeable upon filling with water being there was no pressure present during the draining of the cooling system through the oil pan. That, coupled with the known weaknesses of the original design inner gasket, leads me to believe that my assessment is accurate.

So Luke, when you tested them, did you have a pressure test fixture or just some stuff cobbled together to seal the ports and add air??

 

[DEMON44]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying your original prognosis wasn't accurate. I'm just saying the any way you slice it. You can't test coolers like that. It's just not good enough.

Yes there were fixtures made for each of the various engines we worked on. Mostly for egr coolers, but oil coolers too. the water in our tank was over 100f.

 

[bigjbear]

Wow what a great read. Took me a couple days to get through it I love the travel stories and pics as well.

The two tech tips that I plan to use are the wiper/washer mod and the shoulder belts. Its funny, years ago I never even wore a seat belt and now I feel uncomfortable with just a lap belt. I don't have anyone like Russ/BadDog so I'm hoping Fastenal has something with a shoulder. I only need two, so even if they are a little price-y I don't mind.

Thanks for sharing the adventure

now, i have seatbelts with shoulder harnesses for every position in the truck and generous motors was kind enough to give provisions to bolt up the shoulder straps, but the hole they gave was not typical compared to late-model vehicles. Instead of being 1/2-13(ish) or metric, they are 7/16-20. Swell. The shoulder belts all attached with a shouldered bolt in their original application, but they are all larger than 7/16". Hmm, what to do. I measured the hole in the rear shoulder belt mountings and found it to be about .625". Ok, for a mock-up i need a bushing with a 7/16" bore and a 5/8" od. I must have something that will work around here...i did. The caliper mounting bolt sleeve from 1/2-3/4t trucks (and a bazillion gm passenger cars also) just happens to have the needed specs. Sweet, i get them mocked up and decide i want something a bit stouter than the caliper guide pin sleeve. I call russ's 24hr machine svc and describe this "top-hat" looking thing with x diameter for the brim and y diameter for the cylinder above the brim and a 7/16 hole through it (i love it when something can be accurately described over the phone). He whips up several of them and they work out perfectly. My theory was the sleeve could use some stability by adding a shoulder to it:

ok, so i have some stout bushings to mount the shoulder harnesses to the body, now i just need some bolts. Hmm, 7/16-20 about an inch long with as thin of a head as possible.....exactly my thought as well--flywheel bolts for a mark iv big block/first gen sbc!! They worked out perfect!! Thin head that the covers fit nicely over and long enough to engage all of the provided threads in the body.

 

[azblazer]

I think there will be a power tank with a broad selection of air tools with a secret stash of rol locs in the burbs future! Actually when it comes to on board air i remember 12vdc systems mounted in the utility beds of us west trucks. They were a pale green color and compact to fit into the storage bins....hmmm maybe i should do some research....lol.

As far as oil coolers and proper ways to test....even after 11 years with freightliner all i can remember was remove replace and run on dyno with cascade in the cooling system until clean end of story. I am sure if you worked at a cummins dealership there might be more to it since i am sure they would be required to have more special tools than a truck dealership would have. Although i do remember for ftl warranty there was no such thing as a Bad part...warranty only accepted things based on specs or circuit number 98A at said connector location...cavity x backed out etc...or open circuit etc.