Wow, thanks for the offer!! What does a test kit consist of (or a link to make it easier than explaining)??
CK5
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The Story Of A Cummins Suburban (Lots Of Pics)
- Thread starter mosesburb
- Start date
DEMON44
Low-Tech Redneck
Couple chunks of tube capped, with a bead for the boot to grab. As plugs. One of them has a bung welded to hook up hose and regulator too. Nothing fancy. I built mine. Have a couple different sized plugs for different vehicles and highway trucks.
That sounds like it would be easier for me to make than it would be for you to deal with bringing them down here. I really appreciate the offer though. If you somehow end up with some spare time when you are here let me know and we can hit a trail somewhere.
So as some of you know I have been less than thrilled with the performance and tread life of the E rated BFG All Terrains that I have had on this for a little over 20K miles. I was at the tire shop recently getting a slow leak fixed and noticed how low on tread they were getting and then the guy brought up the purchase info on his computer and I saw how much I paid for them and how recently I paid it. That brought my opinion of the tires to a new low. Now I realize I use the tires a bit harder than the vast majority of BFG AT owners do, but to whack that much tread from the tires in that amount of time was ridiculous. I maintain pressure regularly. It always gets checked before a trip as well as when we air up after a trail. I have leaks fixed as soon as I notice them. I have the tires rebalanced annually or so. So even with all of the trail miles I put on these, they lead a fairly pampered life. If this tread life is indicative of high maintenance, I'm far from impressed. Now mind you they were not worn out, but when no tire guy in his right mind would come to where we travel to fix a tire, I tend to err on the side of caution when it comes to tires. If it was a street queen I would not have been as nervous, but they were getting a bit thin for trail use.
What to do?? What brand to go with?? This guy says Toyos are great and that guy says Toyos are wet crap. That guy says Nittos are great. This guy says Nittos are only good for wheeled garbage cans. Ugh. Who to believe?? I solicited opinions from several people I know, many who use their vehicles is a variety of conditions, from street to trail to industrial. I got a wide range of opinions just like the examples shown earlier. These work for this guy and that guy had no luck with the same tire. Ugh. I started doing my own research with no idea where it was going to lead (other than AWAY from BFG). I had heard some good things about Toyos, so I was checking those out. I was reading reviews of the different aspects of performance of the different tires. The MTs were sounding like a good tire, but I really don't need (or want) a mud tire. The reviews of the ATs were not as good for what I was doing, but still looked like a good tire. The AT IIs were a nice tire as well. One thing I noticed on our trip last year through UT, MT, WY, SD, CO, etc, was how many one ton service trucks had Toyo M55s on them. You'd swear they came from the factory on those trucks up there. I started looking in into those tires. They are a full-on commercial tire suited for pretty brutal conditions like logging, oil/gas fields, mining etc. After reading the reviews on as many sites as I could find info on I was becoming more and more sold on them as I read more reviews on them.
The tread pattern falls between a mud lug and an all terrain pattern. It has good tread voids. The reviews tout great performance in pretty much all weather/road conditions including ice which is not normally a strong point of a lug type tread with a lot of negative space. Well, it looks like I found my tires. Now to go buy a set. Yeah, I'll just go buy a set. Not quite that easy. I went to a few tire dealers around town and nobody had ever heard of a Toyo M55. Swell. A couple offered to order them in for some super-stupid high price--plus freight. I contacted a non-tire place that I knew could get Toyo tires and he was finally able to get them at a "reasonable" price. These things ain't cheap boys and girls. Oof. I had to pre-pay and sign a letter stating I would never even think of considering trying to return them. I left my pile-o-money and had them ordered.
In my research I found that the tire size, 285/75R16 preferred to be mounted on an 8" wide wheel. I had the BFGs mounted on 7" wheels which are the narrowest size listed for a 285. With the cost of these tires, I really didn't want to potentially shorten their life by putting them on a wheel that was too narrow for maximum life, so researched out a 8" wide 16" steel wheel. I had no luck locating a factory application for an 8" wide 16" wheel so I ordered a set from Wheel Vintiques. After I ordered them I got to thinking and after all these years and various vehicles I've had and modified, this was the first set of new wheels I had ever bought. I have bought many sets of wheels, but never a NEW set until now. Ironically, they look like stock wheels. So I get the new wheels and they are powdercoated black. Ugh, I don't want black wheels on this thing. I call around and get prices on re-powdercoating the wheels. The prices range from really expensive to beyond asinine. I then start researching painting over powdercoat. Come to find out, powdercoat works very well as a primer and with a light scuff takes paint beautifully. Sold!! I applied some white paint like every other steel wheel I have has on them and got the new tires mounted upon them. The first thing I noticed about these tires (beyond that they look pretty cool) is they stunk. Yep, stink, stank, stunk. Nasty. Smelled like some funky avian fecal matter. Took a long time to go away too. Wierd. Other than the stink they seem cool.
Here is one next to the BFG it is replacing: (for the same given tire size, load rating. load range, etc, the Toyo M55 weighs 7 pounds more per tire than the BFGs weigh)
All mounted upon the new wheels:
Now I have held off talking about these tires because I wanted to be able to give an accurate opinion of them. They needed to be put through some hell before I could honestly report on them. I will admit I was expecting them to perform well using the reviews as a baseline for judgment, but I have to say they have exceeded most of my expectations by a fair bit (except odor...LOL). I was pretty nervous about the sidewall construction. There are no real shoulder lugs or tread for that matter, just three concentric beads that are very uninspiring. I quickly found there is no reason for concern at all with the sidewalls on these things (or any other part of the tire). These things are as tough as titanium nails. I have aired them down and shown them no mercy whatsoever. My boy and I have put them through the wringer on some pretty sketchy trails and I have yet to permanently mark the sidewalls on these and it took several trips to find a piece of rubber chinked off the main tread of the tire. Absolutely amazing. The sidewalls have had the usual rock marks all over them, but as soon as it rains they look like brand new again. As it sits outside right now, two of the sidewalls are full of cactus needles of some sort. They don't care. At all.
I have had them in some different weather conditions. Dry, wet, no snow yet, some light mud. They seem to do good in everything so far. Road manners seem nice as well. Not as quiet as the BFG ATs, but not as weak as them either. Kind of a cross between an AT and a MT for noise. They do seem to do the Toyo drift to the right that I have read about on several of their tires, but nothing that bugs me so much I want to do anything about it. They handle wind and wet very well. I am quite impressed with the tires so far. I have had them on for about eight months now. I don't recall how many miles are on them though. I rotated them one time and they seem to be wearing great. One odd thing is they threw all their weights off at some point. I'm not sure if the original balance place didn't install them correctly or if when they are aired down they push the weights off, but I got them rebalanced and all has been well since.
What to do?? What brand to go with?? This guy says Toyos are great and that guy says Toyos are wet crap. That guy says Nittos are great. This guy says Nittos are only good for wheeled garbage cans. Ugh. Who to believe?? I solicited opinions from several people I know, many who use their vehicles is a variety of conditions, from street to trail to industrial. I got a wide range of opinions just like the examples shown earlier. These work for this guy and that guy had no luck with the same tire. Ugh. I started doing my own research with no idea where it was going to lead (other than AWAY from BFG). I had heard some good things about Toyos, so I was checking those out. I was reading reviews of the different aspects of performance of the different tires. The MTs were sounding like a good tire, but I really don't need (or want) a mud tire. The reviews of the ATs were not as good for what I was doing, but still looked like a good tire. The AT IIs were a nice tire as well. One thing I noticed on our trip last year through UT, MT, WY, SD, CO, etc, was how many one ton service trucks had Toyo M55s on them. You'd swear they came from the factory on those trucks up there. I started looking in into those tires. They are a full-on commercial tire suited for pretty brutal conditions like logging, oil/gas fields, mining etc. After reading the reviews on as many sites as I could find info on I was becoming more and more sold on them as I read more reviews on them.
The tread pattern falls between a mud lug and an all terrain pattern. It has good tread voids. The reviews tout great performance in pretty much all weather/road conditions including ice which is not normally a strong point of a lug type tread with a lot of negative space. Well, it looks like I found my tires. Now to go buy a set. Yeah, I'll just go buy a set. Not quite that easy. I went to a few tire dealers around town and nobody had ever heard of a Toyo M55. Swell. A couple offered to order them in for some super-stupid high price--plus freight. I contacted a non-tire place that I knew could get Toyo tires and he was finally able to get them at a "reasonable" price. These things ain't cheap boys and girls. Oof. I had to pre-pay and sign a letter stating I would never even think of considering trying to return them. I left my pile-o-money and had them ordered.
In my research I found that the tire size, 285/75R16 preferred to be mounted on an 8" wide wheel. I had the BFGs mounted on 7" wheels which are the narrowest size listed for a 285. With the cost of these tires, I really didn't want to potentially shorten their life by putting them on a wheel that was too narrow for maximum life, so researched out a 8" wide 16" steel wheel. I had no luck locating a factory application for an 8" wide 16" wheel so I ordered a set from Wheel Vintiques. After I ordered them I got to thinking and after all these years and various vehicles I've had and modified, this was the first set of new wheels I had ever bought. I have bought many sets of wheels, but never a NEW set until now. Ironically, they look like stock wheels. So I get the new wheels and they are powdercoated black. Ugh, I don't want black wheels on this thing. I call around and get prices on re-powdercoating the wheels. The prices range from really expensive to beyond asinine. I then start researching painting over powdercoat. Come to find out, powdercoat works very well as a primer and with a light scuff takes paint beautifully. Sold!! I applied some white paint like every other steel wheel I have has on them and got the new tires mounted upon them. The first thing I noticed about these tires (beyond that they look pretty cool) is they stunk. Yep, stink, stank, stunk. Nasty. Smelled like some funky avian fecal matter. Took a long time to go away too. Wierd. Other than the stink they seem cool.
Here is one next to the BFG it is replacing: (for the same given tire size, load rating. load range, etc, the Toyo M55 weighs 7 pounds more per tire than the BFGs weigh)
All mounted upon the new wheels:
Now I have held off talking about these tires because I wanted to be able to give an accurate opinion of them. They needed to be put through some hell before I could honestly report on them. I will admit I was expecting them to perform well using the reviews as a baseline for judgment, but I have to say they have exceeded most of my expectations by a fair bit (except odor...LOL). I was pretty nervous about the sidewall construction. There are no real shoulder lugs or tread for that matter, just three concentric beads that are very uninspiring. I quickly found there is no reason for concern at all with the sidewalls on these things (or any other part of the tire). These things are as tough as titanium nails. I have aired them down and shown them no mercy whatsoever. My boy and I have put them through the wringer on some pretty sketchy trails and I have yet to permanently mark the sidewalls on these and it took several trips to find a piece of rubber chinked off the main tread of the tire. Absolutely amazing. The sidewalls have had the usual rock marks all over them, but as soon as it rains they look like brand new again. As it sits outside right now, two of the sidewalls are full of cactus needles of some sort. They don't care. At all.
I have had them in some different weather conditions. Dry, wet, no snow yet, some light mud. They seem to do good in everything so far. Road manners seem nice as well. Not as quiet as the BFG ATs, but not as weak as them either. Kind of a cross between an AT and a MT for noise. They do seem to do the Toyo drift to the right that I have read about on several of their tires, but nothing that bugs me so much I want to do anything about it. They handle wind and wet very well. I am quite impressed with the tires so far. I have had them on for about eight months now. I don't recall how many miles are on them though. I rotated them one time and they seem to be wearing great. One odd thing is they threw all their weights off at some point. I'm not sure if the original balance place didn't install them correctly or if when they are aired down they push the weights off, but I got them rebalanced and all has been well since.
DEMON44
Low-Tech Redneck
The m55 rubber compound is hard as rock. That's why they last forever.
y5mgisi
1 ton status
Glad to hear you are enjoying your choice!
I'm on my 5th set of m55s on my truck, I like them too.
But I cant say they have ever smelt funny.
They aren't cheap and
your right sometimes can be hard to get in the size you want.
They sure look good on those wheels!
But I cant say they have ever smelt funny.
They aren't cheap and your right sometimes can be hard to get in the size you want.
They sure look good on those wheels!
I hope they do. Do you see much of them at your facility??
So far, so good. I am very pleased with how they are holding up.
How do they do in snow and on ice??
But I cant say they have ever smelt funny.
your right sometimes can be hard to get in the size you want.
These things fuggin reeked. Nasty stank. I like the smell of new tires and would get an air freshener with the "normal" new tire fragrance, but this was borderline disgusting.
Hard to get in the size I wanted--hell, I would have been happy if someone had ever heard of them before I walked in
They sure look good on those wheels!
Thanks!!
DEMON44
Low-Tech Redneck
Never had them on any service truck of mine but have seen lots of others with them on. They seem to hold up really well on gravel and oilfield lease roads under the weight of a mechanics service truck. We have Michelin XDS on our trucks in the mine. They chunk out terribly.
I think they are great for snow! Ice...well I haven't ever had a tire that was unreal on ice.
That is the one reason I use m55s though is that they do not chunk out the tread on gravel.
That is the one reason I use m55s though is that they do not chunk out the tread on gravel.
I think they are great for snow! Ice...well I haven't ever had a tire that was unreal on ice.
That is the one reason I use m55s though is that they do not chunk out the tread on gravel.
That was one thing I really had issues with the BFGs was the chunking of tread on the trails. It took several trail runs to get a piece (one small piece) of tread to let loose of these tires. VERY impressive. The sidewalls look like absolutely nothing special, but they literally have no marks on them from the trails we've run with them. They will look rough as hell when we get off the trail, but as soon as they get wet, they look like new again. Very impressive.
So one of the things that has bothered me since I started driving this conglomeration of wayward parts is the location of the shifter knob in all three axis. There are a few contributors to the situation. One big one is the location of the shift tower where it comes through the floor. This was dictated to me by the placement of the motor itself and the fact that the shifter tower is integral to the transmission and not movable. To give some perspective on the situation, the shifter comes through a hole in the floor located right beside the factory hole for the transfer case shifter. Yes, that far back. Now, when I initially built the truck I bought a brand new shifter tower from GM and installed it. The shifter placement was great--if you were shifting from the back seat. Under the rubber sealing boot that comes on the tower assembly there are some screws that allow disassembly of the tower mechanism. I pulled the steel shifter stub out of the plastic base and heated it up and bent it into a much more agreeable position. This was a great improvement over the initial location, but after many thousands of miles, it has proven to be less than comfortable at times. Another situation exacerbated by the shifter location is the length of the stick itself. It ends up being too long to be comfortable, but too short to be cool. Something needs to be done to improve the physical properties of the shifter. The factory shifter is a combination of a solid stub at the top for a knob to thread onto, followed by a varying diameter tubing down to the bottom where a rubber isolator mates the shifter tube to a threaded insert which threads onto the shifter stub on the transmission. There is no easy way to do much of anything to this shifter except destroy it. Nothing productive will come from that, so another plan will need to be devised.
Now for something seemingly completely unrelated. When I installed the ARB locker in the rear I had done some research and found that the electro-pneumatic solenoid valves that control the flow of actuating air to the lockers were a "fairly" common point of failure. I quote fairly because while they are a quality piece, I did find several posts dealing with bad actuators and many people carry spare valves. I really didn't want to deal with all that crap. Why deal with an electrical switch sending power to a electro-pneumatic valve to send air down a plastic line to the locker when I deal with pneumatic valves in various configurations literally dozens of times in a day?? I'm not trying to win a beauty contest with this thing, so not much to worry about there. Let's go with something robust and simple. Big dumb parts--my favorite kind.
I decided to go with a parking brake valve from an air brake setup. Nothing fancy, just a simple on-off valve. I mounted it in the floor right next to the driver seat, right behind my big, dumb auxiliary battery disconnect switch:
It worked great. Out of the way, yet still accessible. Good stuff. That is, until, we were coming down a steep trail (<cough>cowpath/<cough>) and I had to do a multi-point turn to get down this switchback and needed a rear locker to keep from spinning the rear tires. If I went a little forward when I was trying to go backward, VERY bad things were going to happen immediately. So in the heat of the situation, I reach down to engage the rear locker and some stuff had slid forward and blocked access to the switch. Not good. I cleared the stuff out, hit the switch and locked the rear axle. This situation got me to thinking about my setup. I like it. It is functional 95% of the time, but that is the hang up. What to do?? Move the switch?? Go back to the electro-pneumatic setup??
So, back to the shifter situation. I decided the time had come to deal with the uncomfortable setup that I had. I knew I couldn't do anything with the stock stick, so a replacement would have to be sourced. I decided to take care of a couple problems at once with the shifter. I started by pulling the stub out of the base and doing some more strategic bending on it. It seems so simple. Bend it until it is in the right place, but what is the right place?? I thought I had it right when I did it the first time way back when. This proved to be a fairly challenging task requiring a few re-bends to get it "right". I eventually got it where I thought it should be. Now to add a stick to it. I was at the steel yard and picked up a piece of 1" .250 wall DOM tubing. Not having measured the length of anything I grabbed two feet to be safe. I had my buddy Russ bore the end of the tube and machine the threads into it. That worked out perfectly. I now had a two foot long stick in about the right place.
Now, what to do for a knob. I use a shift knob with a pneumatic valve in it hundreds of times a day. I have never had a failure with it. This is my kind of part. So I picked up an Eaton/Fuller A6909 shift knob. It has a pneumatic valve in the knob assembly that I can use for the rear locker.
My boy saw this and said I should leave it like that so it can be one of those "cool hotrods". I told him that I'm just not that cool and have to have something slightly more practical. Overall length. Oof. There's another fun task. I made a starting cut and I think I cut an inch off this thing three times and half an inch off of it another three times until I got to what felt "right".
Now that pic is slightly deceiving because the Eaton shift knob is fairly tall making the overall height of the new shifter closer to the length of the old shifter than it looks--still shorter than the original though. Now it is fairly obvious that the outside diameter of the new shifter is a lot smaller than the OD of the old shifter. I want to reuse the stock shift boot, so something will need to be made to deal with this discrepancy. I found a drop from my tie rod that Russ had machined for me. I took that back over to his shop and had him bore it out to fit the new stick and also cut a groove in the bushing to retain the top of the stock boot. This is what I received:
The shift knob mounts with 1/2-13 threads, so I cut the head off of a 1/2-13 bolt and installed it in the tube with a set screw. I retained the shift boot collar in the same fashion. This is what I ended up with:
After some plumbing and wiring for a possible future project, this is what I ended up with:
A different angle:
So, a lot of damn work for a shifter and ARB switch. Yep, sure was. Worth it?? Oh hell yes. Very much so. Much more comfortable position on highway and, almost more importantly, off highway. I find myself more likely to flip the rear locker on being that it is easily accessible now. One thing that I anticipated and was not let down with was the amount of noise the stick transmits. Remember the rubber isolator in the original stick mentioned earlier?? That is for noise abatement from the transmission. The stock stick does a nice job of dampening the vibration and not transmitting the noise to the interior. The new stick has no noise dampening properties at all. I thought this would be a big problem, but come to find out, it is really only an issue at certain ground speeds, under certain loads, so unless those criteria are met, no noticeable noise enters the vehicle. Win.
Now for something seemingly completely unrelated. When I installed the ARB locker in the rear I had done some research and found that the electro-pneumatic solenoid valves that control the flow of actuating air to the lockers were a "fairly" common point of failure. I quote fairly because while they are a quality piece, I did find several posts dealing with bad actuators and many people carry spare valves. I really didn't want to deal with all that crap. Why deal with an electrical switch sending power to a electro-pneumatic valve to send air down a plastic line to the locker when I deal with pneumatic valves in various configurations literally dozens of times in a day?? I'm not trying to win a beauty contest with this thing, so not much to worry about there. Let's go with something robust and simple. Big dumb parts--my favorite kind.
I decided to go with a parking brake valve from an air brake setup. Nothing fancy, just a simple on-off valve. I mounted it in the floor right next to the driver seat, right behind my big, dumb auxiliary battery disconnect switch:
It worked great. Out of the way, yet still accessible. Good stuff. That is, until, we were coming down a steep trail (<cough>cowpath/<cough>) and I had to do a multi-point turn to get down this switchback and needed a rear locker to keep from spinning the rear tires. If I went a little forward when I was trying to go backward, VERY bad things were going to happen immediately. So in the heat of the situation, I reach down to engage the rear locker and some stuff had slid forward and blocked access to the switch. Not good. I cleared the stuff out, hit the switch and locked the rear axle. This situation got me to thinking about my setup. I like it. It is functional 95% of the time, but that is the hang up. What to do?? Move the switch?? Go back to the electro-pneumatic setup??
So, back to the shifter situation. I decided the time had come to deal with the uncomfortable setup that I had. I knew I couldn't do anything with the stock stick, so a replacement would have to be sourced. I decided to take care of a couple problems at once with the shifter. I started by pulling the stub out of the base and doing some more strategic bending on it. It seems so simple. Bend it until it is in the right place, but what is the right place?? I thought I had it right when I did it the first time way back when. This proved to be a fairly challenging task requiring a few re-bends to get it "right". I eventually got it where I thought it should be. Now to add a stick to it. I was at the steel yard and picked up a piece of 1" .250 wall DOM tubing. Not having measured the length of anything I grabbed two feet to be safe. I had my buddy Russ bore the end of the tube and machine the threads into it. That worked out perfectly. I now had a two foot long stick in about the right place.
Now, what to do for a knob. I use a shift knob with a pneumatic valve in it hundreds of times a day. I have never had a failure with it. This is my kind of part. So I picked up an Eaton/Fuller A6909 shift knob. It has a pneumatic valve in the knob assembly that I can use for the rear locker.
My boy saw this and said I should leave it like that so it can be one of those "cool hotrods". I told him that I'm just not that cool and have to have something slightly more practical. Overall length. Oof. There's another fun task. I made a starting cut and I think I cut an inch off this thing three times and half an inch off of it another three times until I got to what felt "right".
Now that pic is slightly deceiving because the Eaton shift knob is fairly tall making the overall height of the new shifter closer to the length of the old shifter than it looks--still shorter than the original though. Now it is fairly obvious that the outside diameter of the new shifter is a lot smaller than the OD of the old shifter. I want to reuse the stock shift boot, so something will need to be made to deal with this discrepancy. I found a drop from my tie rod that Russ had machined for me. I took that back over to his shop and had him bore it out to fit the new stick and also cut a groove in the bushing to retain the top of the stock boot. This is what I received:
The shift knob mounts with 1/2-13 threads, so I cut the head off of a 1/2-13 bolt and installed it in the tube with a set screw. I retained the shift boot collar in the same fashion. This is what I ended up with:
After some plumbing and wiring for a possible future project, this is what I ended up with:
A different angle:
So, a lot of damn work for a shifter and ARB switch. Yep, sure was. Worth it?? Oh hell yes. Very much so. Much more comfortable position on highway and, almost more importantly, off highway. I find myself more likely to flip the rear locker on being that it is easily accessible now. One thing that I anticipated and was not let down with was the amount of noise the stick transmits. Remember the rubber isolator in the original stick mentioned earlier?? That is for noise abatement from the transmission. The stock stick does a nice job of dampening the vibration and not transmitting the noise to the interior. The new stick has no noise dampening properties at all. I thought this would be a big problem, but come to find out, it is really only an issue at certain ground speeds, under certain loads, so unless those criteria are met, no noticeable noise enters the vehicle. Win.
Billy Big Rig!
Martin
Martin
have a problem, solve a problem. I love it. good work as usual.
I wish you asked before going through the effort, (nice job btw!) But there's a short throw shifter for NV4500. It makes the shifts much quicker. By that I mean like a car transmission.
I'm not sure the handle would work with your transmission set so far back, but I thought I'd share.
Edit: Picture fail...
I'm not sure the handle would work with your transmission set so far back, but I thought I'd share.
Edit: Picture fail...
Glad you posted anyway, I have an NV4500 and would be interested in that. Thanks!
Yeah, that was kind of an unforeseen consequence; when I down shift into second or first, my right hand instinctively flips the switch down (turning the locker on). I drove around for the first couple/few weeks with an empty air tank just so it wouldn't be a problem.
Cool!!
Thanks man!!
Funny you mention throw as I forgot to. I took a bunch of measurements before I started this and one measurement was the throw of the knob. By shortening the stick however much I did, it ended up shortening the throw just a fuzz over one inch. It doesn't sound like much, but it is actually very noticeable. I had no issues with the throw before, but it is just that much better now.
I won't lie, I am used to a 9 speed, and I flip the switch back and forth when I am going down the road when it is locked in gear.....
Martin
Martin
