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"Tired" starter?

Mastiff

Mastiff

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Lately my K5 is turning over slowly, especially when hot. I've looked over and ohmed out all the wiring and it looks good. I'm also hitting it with two newish, quality batteries in parallel. It hasn't been a serious problem yet because the EFI pops off easily, but the starter sounds like it's really struggling. The most obvious thing is the +12 or grounding, but it looks solid, like I said. The starter also has heat shield on it (and, these aren't long highway trips anyway, just like a quick trip to the store or something).

So, I guess I'm looking for suggestions where to look. The starter is at least 15 years old, so I wonder if they just get tired after a while? This one does a lot of sitting too (sadly). So one option is to pop in a fresh starter, but I don't want to waste money.
 
From one starter solenoid I took apart, over time the contact within starts to pit and generally not work good, so I'm sure there is a lot of heat being generated due to poor current flow. When it got really bad inside, I noticed the 12V+ stud was pretty loose. Not saying a new solenoid will fix your particular problem of course, just what I've seen on one example.

When I replace my starter, the factory style is going in the trash, and a mini starter is going in it's place. Not that every engine needs it, but they turn the engine over faster, and seem less effected with heat over time. Not to mention just easier to deal with something that is half the weight or so.
 
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The starter getting worse when the engine is hot is the clue that the problem is the starter, and not the batteries. I totally agree with dyeager about Mini High Torque starters. OE GM style starters are getting more expensive, and Mini High Torque starters are getting cheaper. OE GM starters are not gear reduction starters and High torques are, thus there is no reason to have an OE GM style starter anymore.
 
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My thinking was that the engine tightens up and has more compression once it's warm an lubed up. But I'm liking the idea of lighter, smaller gear reduction starter.

Any recommendations? I know about mean green from way back. Any opinions? They are pretty pricey at $300. There's another thread here that mentioned Powermaster and Tilton. Tilton is even more $$, unless I looked at the wrong model.
 
Mastiff said:
My thinking was that the engine tightens up and has more compression once it's warm an lubed up. But I'm liking the idea of lighter, smaller gear reduction starter.

Any recommendations? I know about mean green from way back. Any opinions? They are pretty pricey at $300. There's another thread here that mentioned Powermaster and Tilton. Tilton is even more $$, unless I looked at the wrong model.
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I have a Powermaster Mini High Torque that I paid a little over $100 for with free shipping from Jegs. The thing works like a champ.
 
Rockauto has a new ACDELCO gear reduction unit for $101. They have lots of other options , plus the discount code can help some with their low shipping costs .

I looked it up for a '99 350.
I have done this conversion on a couple of trucks.
 
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You said it turns over slowly, especially when hot, which sounds like it does it when cold too. So it sounds like it's having cold start problems too. Even though you checked the cables to the started with an ohm meter doesn't mean they're good. If they're corrorded internally they'll still test good with an ohmmeter but under a load they'll restrict the current. Try hooking jumper cables from the battery to the starter and see if that helps. Free and easy test.
That being said, I have a Powermaster mini starter and it works much better than a OEM.
 
Sometimes a starter gets cooked from low battery voltage,or an extended cranking period with no rest --the windings heat up enough to develop a higher resistance and wont conduct as well..add in the heat from being planted right under a nice toasty exhaust manifold all its life,its entirely possible for one to get "tired"..

I have wondered if a 6.2 starter,either the "direct drive" or the gear reduction type, will bolt up to a gas engine--I am pretty sure the starter drive is a different number of teeth for diesels (flywheel tooth count is different too)..but maybe a starter drive off a gas starter would fit--or the nose off one too,if its not the same..
Bet it would whip over any gas motor with ease !..

I agree the mini-starters are a lot better--no bench pressing required to install them,and much more powerful..I put a gear reduction starter off a 6.5 on my 6.2,it weighs a lot less than that ingot direct drive one does..
 
Sorry, it spins over well when cold. I worded it kind of funny.

6872xtc said:
Rockauto has a new ACDELCO gear reduction unit for $101. They have lots of other options , plus the discount code can help some with their low shipping costs .

I looked it up for a '99 350.
I have done this conversion on a couple of trucks.
Click to expand...

Are you saying a '99 350 is a bolt on? Mean green and powermaster want to know how many teeth on my flywheel, which I'm not sure of. Is there and easy way to know what application I need? My engine is not the original. I believe it to be an earlier 4-bolt main block.
 
I"m pretty sure the starters with the diagonal bolt pattern are the larger sized flywheel ,168 tooth, and the ones with the bolts straight across are the 153 tooth version..

I have seen a few starters that had a nose with 3 bolts ,that can work on both ...
 
As far as I know , like diesel said, the diagonal pattern is the key. I took one off of a '99 454, and put it on my '90 350.
They still had a 350 up to the year 2000.
My '95 350 has a gear reduction on it, we put one of those on my '72 with a 406, too.
 
1-ton said:
I have a Powermaster Mini High Torque that I paid a little over $100 for with free shipping from Jegs. The thing works like a champ.
Click to expand...

Which model did you get? All the ones I'm seeing are about $200. 9600 and 9540 both look like they'd work.
 
Mastiff said:
Which model did you get? All the ones I'm seeing are about $200. 9600 and 9540 both look like they'd work.
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This is the one I got PN# 9100
shopping


http://www.jegs.com/i/Powermaster/7...2&cadevice=c&gclid=CImPxdiY79ACFQYcaQodLJIBZg
 
I've never replaced a starter. How do you gain visibility to the flywheel to set the shims? On mine the flywheel cover appears to be held on by two bolts, plus the engine/tranny stiffeners are connected. Can I just remove the bolts and take it down?
 
i bolt mine up and see if they work as-is first. i've hd good luck up until this new motor. starter worked with no shims on old motor, grinds on the new one. but with a mini starter, installing/removing is easy enough to try.

i've got a manaul trans, havent looked closely, but it would seem pretty hard to access for checking starter gear engagement. in your case seems like it would require you tearing all that stuff to get at it. i'd rather just try it before doing that.
 
dyeager535 said:
i bolt mine up and see if they work as-is first. i've hd good luck up until this new motor. starter worked with no shims on old motor, grinds on the new one. but with a mini starter, installing/removing is easy enough to try.

i've got a manaul trans, havent looked closely, but it would seem pretty hard to access for checking starter gear engagement. in your case seems like it would require you tearing all that stuff to get at it. i'd rather just try it before doing that.
Click to expand...

On my scout, the dust cover was a sheet metal thing just held on by a few bolts. This one does seem slightly more structural.

I guess your saying it's not a huge deal for it to grind a few times if things don't line up right the first time? If the engagement is a bit loose, you'll never know, which doesn't seem ideal.
 
Your converter cover is held on by 6 (3/8") bolts along the sides. Once these and the bars to the motor mounts are unbolted you can move the cover out of the way exposing the nose of the starter where it engages the flexplate.

(pic of undrilled bosses on a 2wd trans)



 
others may have different opinion, but if it sounds fine, run it. if it sounds bad once installed, spend the time to set the clearance properly.

beauty of the mini starter is you can one hand it, install/remove isnt the chore like it can be with the original starters.
 
Most starter shims have one end slotted,so you don't have to take both bolts off or drop the starter to install them..
If its too loose,you only shim the outer bolt,cut the shim in half..
Too tight,you add a full shim or more,until clearance is correct..

I'm unsure if there is enough access on a manual bellhousing to use the 1/8" allen wrench trick to adjust the gear mesh--the wrench will just fit snug between the starter drive shaft and the outer edge of the flywheel teeth when its correct..
On second glance,I guess the mini starters dont have any shaft sticking out,so that method cant be used on them...but you can judge "by ear" if the gear mesh is good or not..
 
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