TnA's 86 Jimmy Shop Build / Product Development Thread - (Trailing Arms?!?!)

[496truck]

I like the gas tank skid and the rear bumper so far, looking forward to see what you might do with the ends and a tire carrier.

I have to ask but (I think I know the answer already: production options/not everyone needs a tank skid or bumper) why didn't you design a tank skid that would attach right to the bottom of the rear bumper. I see 2 advantages to a design like that. 1. The skid would kinda act like an additional support to the bottom of the bumper (like an outrigger I guess) rather than just being anchored to the ends of the frame. This would help with any push/pull forces from the trailer hitch instead of that force being applied only to the ends of the frame. 2. When departing an obstacle, say a rock gets into the skid, and now you pull forward and the rock potentially gets caught in the void between the skid and bumper as designed now. With a skid that angles up and transitions right to the bottom of the bumper you don't have that void and can now slide right off anything that might be reaching up to grab the truck.

Just a thought, maybe I'm overthinking things.

 

[Richcz28]

I have to ask but (I think I know the answer already: production options/not everyone needs a tank skid or bumper) why didn't you design a tank skid that would attach right to the bottom of the rear bumper. I see 2 advantages to a design like that. 1. The skid would kinda act like an additional support to the bottom of the bumper (like an outrigger I guess) rather than just being anchored to the ends of the frame. This would help with any push/pull forces from the trailer hitch instead of that force being applied only to the ends of the frame. 2. When departing an obstacle, say a rock gets into the skid, and now you pull forward and the rock potentially gets caught in the void between the skid and bumper as designed now. With a skid that angles up and transitions right to the bottom of the bumper you don't have that void and can now slide right off anything that might be reaching up to grab the truck.

Just a thought, maybe I'm overthinking things.

I really like everything you just said here

 

[swettysblazer]

I really like everything you just said here

I think what Brian said is a good "option" package. Maybe make a connecting plate that bolts to the bumper and the skid to make it one piece.

 

[CFMi]

I like the gas tank skid and the rear bumper so far, looking forward to see what you might do with the ends and a tire carrier.

I have to ask but (I think I know the answer already: production options/not everyone needs a tank skid or bumper) why didn't you design a tank skid that would attach right to the bottom of the rear bumper. I see 2 advantages to a design like that. 1. The skid would kinda act like an additional support to the bottom of the bumper (like an outrigger I guess) rather than just being anchored to the ends of the frame. This would help with any push/pull forces from the trailer hitch instead of that force being applied only to the ends of the frame. 2. When departing an obstacle, say a rock gets into the skid, and now you pull forward and the rock potentially gets caught in the void between the skid and bumper as designed now. With a skid that angles up and transitions right to the bottom of the bumper you don't have that void and can now slide right off anything that might be reaching up to grab the truck.

Just a thought, maybe I'm overthinking things.

I really like everything you just said here

I think what Brian said is a good "option" package. Maybe make a connecting plate that bolts to the bumper and the skid to make it one piece.

Yes, I agree that a connecting plate could only make things stronger, true. I don't really think it's required in this case. The bumper bolts on in 5 places per side, and it attaches to the wider center leg of the frame "C". Even the larger hitches out there only attach with two bolts per side, and they attach to the lower shorter leg of the frame "C". Strength really shouldn't be an issue. The gas tank skid is ridiculously strong though, and connecting the two would just make for a completely bulletproof rear setup.
Okay, strength issue aside though - I want to express something that I've found out over the years when it comes to "sliding off the rocks", and this seems like a good time to bring it up.

I've seen a lot of Jeeps come through my shop over the years, and tube buggys too. For a while "boatsides" were becoming really popular, basically an angled plate going from the bottom of the frame up to wherever they cut the rockers. Some people even wanted me to bolt on some plastic on the bottom so they would slide better. After going wheeling with these guys, I noticed that they were constantly dropping on a rock, and then sliding sideways off of the rock and getting more stuck. From that point forward, I started pushing people to make flat plate protection (horizontal), even if it had to be "stepped" up and then flat and then up again. This makes for less of a "sliding over the rocks" effect but makes the vehicle much more stable when sitting on something like a rock. It allows you more forwards momentum and less sideways slide. The reason I thought of this was the comment of "slide right off anything". I know it's a slightly different topic being that you would "slide" forwards not sideways, but it made me think of this one so I could express it to you all. Comments are welcome on the "boatside", or "angled" protection argument!!

As far as a rock getting stuck between the skidplate and the bumper though - I can't see it ever happening. There just isn't enough room there. The bottom of the bumper is flat and starts very shortly after the skidplate ends. And it is only a few inches wide at that. So even if you dropped off the skidplate and landed on the flat of the bumper and didn't automatically slide forward, a very small amount of throttle would have you moving along without issue. I totally appreciate you guys seeing and pointing things out like this though, don't stop doing it! In this case though, I've already given the situation some thought and don't see a need for anything further, even considering I am coming from a hard-core rock-crawling background where clearance is key!!

Thanks guys!! ...more to come soon!!

-Darren

 

[Kay86K5]

As far as a rock getting stuck between the skidplate and the bumper though - I can't see it ever happening. There just isn't enough room there.

-Darren

This is exactly what I thought. I have never seen a full size chevy even with a stock tank skid plate and a stock bumper have a problem with clearance like that. Though it is good to always look at any potential weak point and try to engineer to eliminate it, and not saying that anything isn't possible when out wheeling, but I think this would be a waste of time to do something like that. I could understand if you would see thread after thread of guys saying this is a consistant problem (aka cracks in the frame near the steering box), but like I said, I have never once seen anyone have problems with that. I think you are on the right track. And that tank skid looks bitchen!

 

[496truck]

I get it, only brought it up cause I had come down off this one obstacle this one time (at band camp ) and the truck came down on the stock tank skid and then dragged the stock rear bumper off after that. Was probably the one situation it'll ever happen and may never happen again.

I do like the design of both these items and have plans to order the tank skid at the very least in the next year or so when money gets a little easier to come by (wife's car paid off). Still waiting on the complete rear bumper/tire carrier design.

 

[CFMi]

I get it, only brought it up cause I had come down off this one obstacle this one time (at band camp ) and the truck came down on the stock tank skid and then dragged the stock rear bumper off after that. Was probably the one situation it'll ever happen and may never happen again.

I do like the design of both these items and have plans to order the tank skid at the very least in the next year or so when money gets a little easier to come by (wife's car paid off). Still waiting on the complete rear bumper/tire carrier design.

I could see that happening with a stock bumper for sure. The bottom of my rear bumper is flat plate though, so no rocks can get up in there and rip it off The flat plate starts about an inch from where the skidplate ends.

-Darren

 

[CFMi]

I spent the day at the shop today with my buddy Nick helping out. We got a ton of little stuff done that needed to happen before leaving for Moab. Got the trailer brakes/wheel bearings gone through, welded on a couple reinforcing plates too, and swapped two new tires onto her too so she should be able to carry the Jimmy out and back.
We rotated the tires on the Jimmy, turned the rear drums, adjusted the brakes, changed the rear diff fluid, put in my new rear shackles, changed the front shackles to my 3/8" plate ones with new upper shackle bushings, moved my trans crossmember to the bottom of the frame because I had a little vibration, put new windshield wipers on, replaced the seat covers, vacuumed the interior, attached the rear brake lines to the axle, and probably did some more that i'm not thinking of too.

Rear Shackles:

Front Shackles:

...Then... since Nick was helping out and we got so much done, I decided that there was time for some more. I grabbed some tube and some angle and some expanded metal, and started making a rear parts bin/cooler rack. I kept it simple, other than cutting a couple tabs for the cooler in the center on the plasma table.
It bolts down to the floor and then two bins and a cooler ratchet strap to it.

Now I'm very close to being ready to load up for the trip! I'd like to trim just a little tiny bit more on the front fenders and maybe search for my Streamlight car charger, but I'm not sure I'm going to have any more shop time other than running up to load the Jimmy onto the trailer. We'll see how things go the first couple days this week.

-Darren

 

[CFMi]

It's 8:15pm, we are at the campgrounds, the Jimmy is unloaded, the truck is unloaded, and we are unpacked into our little cabin. Sitting on the back porch, with a couple drinks. Not too bad.

 

[TREA18]

Jealous. Anymore updates on the rear bumper.......








Seriously, I'm liking the bumper. Keep up the good work.

 

[CFMi]

Hey Guys!!
Sorry I haven't updated anything lately. Blazer Bash was a bunch of fun, met a ton of nice people and the Jimmy preformed quite well, I was even a little surprised by how well she did!

Front Bumper held up well, and I didn't hit the sides at all. I thought I was going to for sure a couple times, but it never hit. Coming down off a pretty steep drop, the bumper did dig down into the sand once, but a little throttle and it pushed through the sand and came out with only a couple little scratches. I had to be winched on "Wipeout Hill" (the only obstacle I had to winch on) and it was such a small tug that I don't think it is even a remotely fair test to the strength of the mounting system.

Rear Bumper was really hard to hit! I did manage it once, after an extremely sharp drop-off and I tagged the lower corner of it pretty hard. All it got was a little scratch on the paint. Of course it hit right on a corner weld, so it's about the strongest place I could have possibly hit it.

I also managed to ding the passenger side rear lower corner (no protection there yet - I was trying NOT to hit the corners, lol) but it's not bad at all, and I flattened out the tailpipe a little bit on the other side. Overall, very little damage done to any body parts that weren't protected! Yay!

Gas Tank Skid - I was trying hard to hit this, and tagged it twice. Once right off the bat just playing around at Area BFE. Found a nice rock on a ledge, centered it under the truck, and dropped off the ledge. WHAM! It shook the whole truck pretty hard, then slid off the rock (didn't even catch the rear bumper that time, lol!) I got out after a bit to look at it, and other than a little damaged paint, it's pretty hard to even see the metal scratched.

Also on Wipeout Hill, I hit my rocker pretty hard (the whole rig slid sideways and stopped via rock against rocker), but the rectangular tubing held up just fine. I was slightly worried because I hadn't had a chance to reinforce the tube back to the cab mounts before I left. But it never moved, so all is good!


I wish I had pictures of the trip, but the girlfriend had never been wheeling before and she wanted to ride along for most everything, so I didn't have a dedicated picture-taker. Oh well. I'm sure someone got some pics of the rig (you can see just a couple in MrK5's picture gallery). Hopefully I can get some more from everyone that was there.

The BBQ put on by ORD was awesome. There were a lot of give-a-ways there, I was pretty surprised. I donated a shackle flip with shackles, a winch cradle, and a disc brake bracket set. Everyone seemed happy and had a good time! Way cool, and a thumbs-up for ORD!! (Yes, I just gave a thumbs-up to a company that should theoretically be my competition! That's just how I am! They did a great job and they deserve credit for it!!)

Funny thing though that mentioning ORD made me think of... After one of the trails, I was looking under my front end, checking to see how the new ultra-duty engine crossmember's clearance to the pumpkin was. Everything cleared just fine, never touched the pumpkin at all, even on only 4" lift. I came up and said to myself "Glad that the crossmember didn't hit anything". An ORD member was standing there but wasn't looking under the truck, and then asked me if I knew they made a replacement crossmember that would solve all my problems, lol. I didn't have the heart to tell him that what I was looking at under there was my idea of an improvement on their design - I just tried to leave it alone and said that I make one too. He was super-nice and the only one in our group to make it up Wipeout Hill on his own - he had the perfect wheelbase for it!

Anyways, I had a great time out there, and am looking forward to going out again.

Of course, when I got back into town, the other job I work had fallen apart while I was gone, and I've spent the whole rest of the week trying to get all the sh@t dealt with and back on track. We are almost back on schedule, but I'll be spending more time at that job than working for myself for the immediate future. They have a lot of work right now, and I need some extra $$ coming in. For the next month or so, I'll probably be working for them nearly full-time, and working on products over the weekends or any day that I do have off. So please bear with me for a little while, things will have to slow down on the TnA front for a bit.

-Darren

 

[mrk5]

Pictures take by r3ddog:

Pictures by MrK5:

 

[Kay86K5]

Any new updates? I know you said it was going to be busy at your other job, but I still want to see this finished rear bumper with a swing down tire carrier . J/K, I know crap gets busy sometimes. But still interested in seeing what you come up with. Blazer Bash pics look good

 

[CFMi]

Any new updates? I know you said it was going to be busy at your other job, but I still want to see this finished rear bumper with a swing down tire carrier . J/K, I know crap gets busy sometimes. But still interested in seeing what you come up with. Blazer Bash pics look good

Hey man! Yeah BB was fun for sure, and some of those pics came out great! I was happily surprised at how well the Jimmy did on most obstacles, given that the suspension changes I made were fairly minor compared to most vehicles I have built over the years, lol.

There really hasn't been much of ANY progress made on new designs since I got back. The other job is really taking it's toll on me. I need the money from it, but the hours and number of days/week aren't conducive to me getting up to the shop as much as I really need to. I have managed to ship out a couple products here and there to those that have found ways to get in touch with me, but that's all that I've managed to do.
I'm still looking for that job that pays ridiculously good and I only have to work 2 days a week at it. Anyone have any suggestions, lol?? Seriously though, I have a job in my prospects that I could end up working at MY shop Fridays and Saturdays on a regular basis, but I'm not sure it will be available anytime soon, or pay enough to keep the rest of the bills paid. We'll see.

Talk to you all soon!!!!
-Darren

P.S. - I'm also open to marketing ideas that don't cost thousands of dollars (like ads in the magazines do) to jump-start TnA so I could go full-time with it, but I can't come up with anything feasible. These forums are absolutely awesome, but it's such a limited crowd. I need to get the name out there to the millions of people in the US and more that own these trucks, but advertising has become prohibitively expensive over the years.

 

[cyclic]

Make sure you send me some stickers, they will go proudly on the suburban. Looks like next month I can get the front lift to go with the flip I just ordered form you. Probably around the first of the year I'll need the rear bumper/hitch build kit from you.

 

[Babaganoosh]

Does this mean you are back in the shop again or still plugging away at your fun time job?

 

[Kay86K5]

You might already be doing this, but make sure you are active on Pirate4x4 too. It seems like the crowd volumn is 10 times higher than ck5. I know of a lot of vendors that are very active on the vendor section of pirate and get a lot of business from it. That, and you might want to do something similiar to this build thread that is on ck5, on the chevy section of pirate too. You will get a lot of views, and would be a good opportunity to get your name out there. I think a lot of guys would really like your high clearance front bumper over there.

 

[Richcz28]

If you are up on pirate let us know. I'd definitely throw some pics of my bumper up over there.

 

[CFMi]

Make sure you send me some stickers, they will go proudly on the suburban. Looks like next month I can get the front lift to go with the flip I just ordered form you. Probably around the first of the year I'll need the rear bumper/hitch build kit from you.

Sounds good man, I don't have any stickers at the moment though. Should have some soon to send out to everyone.

Does this mean you are back in the shop again or still plugging away at your fun time job?

I'm at the shop only once in a while. The last two weeks found me there only 1 day total. This week I was lucky enough to get two days there, but I used ALL that time just to get a couple things out the door that I REALLY needed to. No leftover time to either work on new developments or build anything to have stock on the shelf again. I'm trying to change things, but I have so many bills I'm trying to pay off after losing my two other shops that I have to be really careful about what I do. I need time to get things back on track, and it is going decent, but not fast enough for me.

You might already be doing this, but make sure you are active on Pirate4x4 too. It seems like the crowd volumn is 10 times higher than ck5. I know of a lot of vendors that are very active on the vendor section of pirate and get a lot of business from it. That, and you might want to do something similiar to this build thread that is on ck5, on the chevy section of pirate too. You will get a lot of views, and would be a good opportunity to get your name out there. I think a lot of guys would really like your high clearance front bumper over there.

If you are up on pirate let us know. I'd definitely throw some pics of my bumper up over there.

I am not currently on Pirate. A couple years ago, I was on there for another business and it was really hard to deal with the people there. Seems like the majority of people there are just there to take out their frustrations on others by sitting behind their safe little computers. I had one guy threaten to find a way to shut my business down just because I called him out (nicely too, not arrogantly at all) on something that he was telling everyone that was highly inaccurate, and very unsafe. I just can't believe the attitude of the members there. I'm dreading going back on that site, but admit that it's probably a good decision to from a pure business standpoint. It's just really hard for me to shrug off people that put down products that I've spent hard time developing and know work well. I take things too personally on that site, and need to learn how not to.



-Darren

 

[herkdriver007]

You might already be doing this, but make sure you are active on Pirate4x4 too. It seems like the crowd volumn is 10 times higher than ck5. I know of a lot of vendors that are very active on the vendor section of pirate and get a lot of business from it. That, and you might want to do something similiar to this build thread that is on ck5, on the chevy section of pirate too. You will get a lot of views, and would be a good opportunity to get your name out there. I think a lot of guys would really like your high clearance front bumper over there.

Yeah, agree....just watch out for the a$$holes that know everything and are not afraid to show it