traction aids...which is better clutch or no clutch?

[rjfguitar]

also common sense tells me the 350 numbers on the desktop dyno are probably closer than the 406 as its used a lot less than a 350.

I see your exercising that edit button. It used a lot less of what?

You have done this before and i haven't

Bingo!

 

[rjfguitar]

common now.... maybe one or two.

Way more than one or two....

 

[hi pinion]

Ok mr rjfguitar, im going to test you how much more power would a 465 make over a 700? If they were in the same truck?

 

[dirtwarrior17]

people got their opinions and i know there are a bunch that would agree with both of us on alot of the subjects you say you corrected.

I meant the motor is used in alot more trucks and is a lot more common that a 406.

 

[rjfguitar]

Ok mr rjfguitar, im going to test you how much more power would a 465 make over a 700? If they were in the same truck?

Transmissions don't make HP. I would definantly take our built Th700 over a 465. No shifting, faster, and not clutch. Yes, the 465 would put more power to the ground but you would never notice it unless you were towing and pulling a hill. Our 700's will accelerate faster.

 

[rjfguitar]

people got their opinions and i know there are a bunch that would agree with both of us on alot of the subjects you say you corrected.

I meant the motor is used in alot more trucks and is a lot more common that a 406.

No, I corrected information that you gave out that was incorrect.

 

[dirtwarrior17]

one or two if that...

what posts i honestly don't remember this

I just looked at the last 2 pages and couldn't find any.

 

[ryoken]

one or two if that...

what posts i honestly don't remember this

I just looked at the last 2 pages and couldn't find any.

brake boosters have a vacuum line, not master cylinders..

hmmm, what, move along folks nothing to see here...

 

[hi pinion]

Transmissions don't make HP. I would definantly take our built Th700 over a 465. No shifting, faster, and not clutch. Yes, the 465 would put more power to the ground but you would never notice it unless you were towing and pulling a hill. Our 700's will accelerate faster.

Baaaa, it depends on the driver, and how good he is with a stick that determines acceleration i would think,,as far as the 465 goes, its better in my opinion,because these 700 slush boxes will break down one day, and when that day comes, the 465 will still be alive, and clutching by. 700r4 =power sucking pigs, you said they take 40% off the power to the rear wheels? Thats probobly true,even though i own one of the baddest 700s around i wish i went with the stick,i know trannies dont make HP ,, they convert it,the stick 465 is waaay more reliable than any auto out there, hands down. and,,,IT GIVES MORE POWER DUDE!!! Also, ,,,,,when was the LAST time you heard a bunch of people bitchin about there 465 took a crap on them? Never!!! But the 700r4 posts keep rolling in,day after day. Some people can shift withought the clutch ya know. If i had it to do all over again,,i would go with the nastyest 465 out there. More reliable, more RW power.


Also ,,,,you didnnt answer my question, how much more power would a 465 make to the real wheels than a 700? A butt -load more i would think.

 

[hi pinion]

one or two if that...

what posts i honestly don't remember this

I just looked at the last 2 pages and couldn't find any.

What you havent grasped yet is that rjfguitar and I dont live that far from you ?


I thought you would have catched that!!! He and i would like to see this machine of yours someday if you dont mind. I can take some pics.

You pissed me off good yesturday boy, but, im over that now. I wont say anything about the horse and buggy anymore ,i think youre a reaaaall jackass sometimes,most the times in fact,,,,but,you remind me of my little brother in a way, for some strange reason. I can be a jackass too, ALOT too. Now its starting to get alot better, now that your getting broke in and all,getting to know everybody (very quickly) we know you want to shoot for the moon with your truck,etc etc, build it, etc.And you know some good tech for your age. You can learn alot here very quickly. It seems your already in the express lane.

The bottom line is, you are an entertaining little bugger..Flat out. I think ,you think you know ,,,,more than you think you know though . The bottom line is........


i feel bad about what i said to you yesturday,,,somewhat,,, with the whole "milkshake dipstick "thing and all,,,i was a little harsh,,, way over the line,,,


The other bottom line is,















Welcome to the ck5 family dirtwarrior and dont pee pee in your own backyard No hard feeling little bugger. I still think yer a jackass , but welcome to ck5. Later , Jacob

 

[84_Chevy_K10]

A horse without the buggy is the ultimate off road vehicle.

 

[79Beast]

If you want your 10 bolt to live with 36s, you definately want to get rid of the stock carrier. I prefer a Detroit true trac over a clutch type limited slip. However, depending on how much wheeling you'll be doing, you might want a locker instead. Aftermarket axles are cheap for a 10bolt, too.

 

[tRustyK5]

Transmissions don't make HP. I would definantly take our built Th700 over a 465. No shifting, faster, and not clutch. Yes, the 465 would put more power to the ground but you would never notice it unless you were towing and pulling a hill. Our 700's will accelerate faster.

Correct that a tranny doesn't make hp. The 465 would allow more power to get to the ground though...no big power sucking pump to be driven like an auto would have.

Acceleration in each gear with a 465 would be better, and it is noticable...however all that is more than lost by having to find the next gear.

Dirtwarrior: Manufacturers claims can't be added up the way you are doing it. Each claim is based on a very restrictive or poorly tuned 'before condition' and is used purely as a marketing tool. Even if you could add those numbers like you have been, there is the issue of parts matching that hasn't been addressed. Poorly matched parts will kill power rather than add power. Desktop Dyno is crap too. Lastly, big dyno numbers aren't where it's at anyways. Most motors that make the higher hp numbers do so at the kind of rpm that is useless unless you're drag racing.

Rene

 

[Emmettology 101]

Back to the actual topic...

Isn't the True Trac an "all gear" LSD that has no clutches? They work decently...

 

[dyeager535]

IIRC the 700 "sucks up" somewhere along the lines of 20-30HP. There are tables listing the loss of power through auto trannies all over the net.

Of course, parasitic loss of power is going to be evidenced in any transmission. A 465 doesn't put out "100%" of the power going into it. Still turning fluid and gears. More efficient yes, but not 100%.

Note that you don't ever see how much parasitic loss a manual has. Not sure why, guess no one has ever measured it? Seems odd, if you were going to measure the auto's, why not manuals? You know that a 465 takes more power to turn than a Muncie M21.

Loss of power going to the ground is easily evidenced manual to auto though, just by MPG difference.

 

[rjfguitar]

Baaaa, it depends on the driver, and how good he is with a stick that determines acceleration i would think,,as far as the 465 goes, its better in my opinion,because these 700 slush boxes will break down one day, and when that day comes, the 465 will still be alive, and clutching by. 700r4 =power sucking pigs, you said they take 40% off the power to the rear wheels? Thats probobly true,even though i own one of the baddest 700s around i wish i went with the stick,i know trannies dont make HP ,, they convert it,the stick 465 is waaay more reliable than any auto out there, hands down. and,,,IT GIVES MORE POWER DUDE!!! Also, ,,,,,when was the LAST time you heard a bunch of people bitchin about there 465 took a crap on them? Never!!! But the 700r4 posts keep rolling in,day after day. Some people can shift withought the clutch ya know. If i had it to do all over again,,i would go with the nastyest 465 out there. More reliable, more RW power.


Also ,,,,you didnnt answer my question, how much more power would a 465 make to the real wheels than a 700? A butt -load more i would think.

What the hell! You come to me bitching and moaning about your Th700R4 and I get you HOOKED UP on a good deal from the guy that built my 700 and got a duplicate tranny of mine built for you. You tell me last night that it shifts perfectly and is just as good as the day we brought it back from the shop. Now you want to badmouth them that it's going to give out anyday?

The 465 would not be faster from 0-60 like you think it would be. The cute little 4spd box in your mustang is half the iron a 465 is, a 465 is like shifting a truck, not a car.

Reread my posts above about the dyno. You loose 35-45% AT THE REAR WHEELS, thats through the tranny,Tcase, driveline, rearend, and tires. With every transition of power through each drivetrain part it causes a loss in energy. As Rene said, they take about 20-30 HP, big deal in my book. A 465 has a clutch and is full of gears and bearings, they suck HP too.

I have heard plenty of guys complaining about the 465's. Timmy boy has one that pops out of gear all the time IIRC. That means it's shot. How about the nasty spread between 2nd and 3rd gear? How about when that tranny needs a clutch? Have fun pulling the transmission out to get a clutch in.

On the dyno there probably wouldn't be more than a 25HP difference. Our TH700's our BUILT with aftermarket blueprinted converters and premium internals that help transmit the power the best way a hydralic coupling could.

YES, the 465 would put a couple of more ponies to the ground, but you will never feel the difference driving it unless you were pulling a load, and you yourself said you never tow anything anyway. Do what ever the crap you want, throw your $1500 built 700 that I got you hooked up with inthe garbage and good luck with that 465 swap and when you complain about how bad it sucks because you don't have OD anymore and it accelerates slower because, to your suprise, it doesn't shift fast like your mustang.....don't come to me looking for help to reverse the swap.

 

[dirtwarrior17]

You pissed me off good yesturday boy, but, im over that now. I wont say anything about the horse and buggy anymore ,i think youre a reaaaall jackass sometimes,most the times in fact,,,,but,you remind me of my little brother in a way, for some strange reason. I can be a jackass too, ALOT too.

the feeling is mutual.....

i feel bad about what i said to you yesturday,,,somewhat,,, with the whole "milkshake dipstick "thing and all,,,i was a little harsh,,, way over the line,,,

I don't know wtf that came from but I barely even gave it more than a couple seconds of thought. I spent alot of my days in school doing the same sort of thing, and it caused nothing but problems(with the teachers and most of the chicks in my class), that kind of crap rolls off my back.

I was lauging the whole time at what you said and a little harder at what i said.


$hit happens life goes on....

I obviously think i know more than i really do about most of the parts that weren't a part of my swap, or were for a few minutes and most of what i say about things like brake booster and so on is more of a educated guess than the answer.

What you havent grasped yet is that rjfguitar and I dont live that far from you ?


I thought you would have catched that!!! He and i would like to see this machine of yours someday if you dont mind. I can take some pics.

It's been grasped, in fact I actually WANT you have a gander at it and then I will hear your opinions without blowing up and defending my rig to the very end.

We both spewed bs that we regret and I'm pretty sure this is the end of this.

I was starting tide end for my high school so the little buggers'...... ah nevermind.

 

[dirtwarrior17]

Poorly matched parts will kill power rather than add power.

Did all I could to prevent that...

I want hp for mud and embarrassing civics but All this should give me a relitivly flat torque that (on the desktop dyno) is 374 at 2000 but from what i hear it will probably be 374 (instead of 398) at peak and about 330 something at 2000. still plenty of torque considering the stock motors made 30 less ftlbs than that at 3800. Even if its not a killer its a far cry from stock and should make(by rjguitars numbers) at least 50% more hp than stock and have a nice torque curve. How fast do the dyno runs usually go with this setup mph wise?

I agree with the manufactures ratings being bs but what i figured was that it would be around 340 to 350( it would be around 375-390 at the manufactures rating) based on the fact that most of these same parts were in my dads beast of a 383(except headers, heads and manifold) and it came rated at 355 hp and 430 ft lbs with stock heads and... I Know a 383 is not a 355 but the hp between a 355 and a 383 is always real close if they have the same parts. I'll find out in a coule of months until then I'm resting at 340-350 hp at the crank( i could be wrong)

I think I'm gonna go with a beefed 12b and stuff a lockright front and rear(probably leave the front 10b and stuff some beefier shafts/gears in it)

 

[dirtwarrior17]

<<<^^^^^agrees

Kid, this thread has got to be web-wheeling at its very best...

__________________

 

[pauly383]

All I can say today is just build , drive , wheel , and enjoy your truck . Pass along anything you learn doing it to others . Alot of good arguments popped up in this thread , but real world don't really worry about it too much . If I can wheel a 305 with high gears ( verified ) , your combo should be fine