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Truck caught on fire last night

First off, glad you are ok AND that the rig didn't burn to the ground.

Here are my suggestions in order of importance IMO.

1) Largest stacked plate trans cooler

2) Trans temp gauge

3) Locking dipstick (not really needed but sure wouldn't hurt as Greg said about the "treading lightly")

This is all of course AFTER you figure out why you had ATF leaking somewhere that caused the fire.

Bowtie Overdrives is a good place to buy a "built" 700R4 and they are in Hesperia, Ca which appears to be about 80 miles or so from L.A.
 
and this is my motivation to install the fire extinguishers in both my truck and my jetta that have been sitting in the corner of my bedroom for a few months....

glad to hear that youre ok, and hopefully the truck escaped with minimal toasting.
 
You've lived in the southwest part of the country for how long and don't have an external trans cooler? You should have one. Especially if you will be spending the money for a rebuild. It's cheap insurance for the longevity of the new one.
 
1. Get a transmission temp gauge and install a bung in the pan to monitor how hot things are getting.

2. Buy the largest stacked-plate tranny cooler you can find and get it installed. Transmissions get worked really hard offroad, so there really is no such things as "too much" cooling.

3. Get a Lokar locking dipstick. I mention this last not because it's less important but because you shouldn't be using this as your primary solution for boiling ATF. However, because of it's design it will not allow fluid to puke out around the top of the tube so you aren't going to be overflowing onto a hot exhaust system. Also, if you ever find yourself upside down on a trail you won't have to worry about the transmission fluid running out while you wait for help to get the truck winched back over onto it's wheels. Not leaking fluids is a good "tread lightly" principle too. :waytogo:
Click to expand...
One more trick.....yank the little plasic vent tube out of the transmission body...drill and tap the case 1/8 pipe thread and screw a 1/8 x 1/4 flare fitting into the case...take a #4 fitting with a long piece of # 4 hose and run it up high ( like roll bar high )and then back down somewhere away from exhaust etc. I then put a fitting with a check ball in the end....more on this in a minute..

I do this for two reasons....keeps water out in deep crossings...routes the vent away from hot parts.

here's what happens in a deep water crossing....

As the hot transmission goes under water...the case is immediately cooled by the surrounding water...this cooling effect causes the internal atmospheric pressure inside the case to drop drastically...if the stock vent is under water it will suck water into the trans....not a little.....a lot..... as it tries to equalize with the atmospheric pressure of 14.7 psi ( sea level )
 
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Greg, YES! That is what I am talking about.

KG, ya gotta figure out why it happened in the first place, but I am assuming that the kind of heat it was exposed to likely shortened the life of my tranny drastically. I will post up if/when I figure out the source (should be the next couple days)

4x4high, I think I am going to stick with the th350 right now due to costs (though I really really want the 700r4). I may call up that place to get a quote or two anyways. I am 95% sure I will be doing a cooler and gauge and not the locking dipstick at this point.

K5dreamer, glad I could inspire

496truck, never needed a cooler cause it doesn't get too hot where I live. The ocean keeps things really mellow. But ya, now I have the need so... cooler here I come.

Wasted, very tricky. Way to outfox those water crossings. Seems pretty cool, but I am looking for the minimum to get the car and my fam back to UT (hopefully in time for Bonneville this weekend!). Will definitely refer back to this though if I see water crossings in my future.
 
I was under the impression from your first post that you had a 700R4/205 combo in the rig already and since you were talking about the trans life being shortened and were asking about a beefed 700R4. Oh well, if you do decide to swap a 700R4 I haven't heard anything bad about Bowtie Overdrives yet.
 
Sorry for the confusion. I have a th350, but have always WANTED a 700r4. I figured if the trans will need to be replaced, the incremental cost to step up to a 700r4 will never be cheaper than it is now. (Un)fortunately, my wife keeps me in check and usually doesn't let me be too irresponsible.
 
Here is a cursory video. I really don't have much of a clue what I am looking at and am not in a position to drop the transmission. It's about to be towed to a shop to have them look over it, but I thought a video might be helpful anyways. Video Linky.
 
That green thing looks like the rear shaft seal. If so, it definitely should not be there.
If it were not so far back, I would suspect that that was where the fluid came from. But I don't know how the fluid could get back up front.
Were you running transmission fluid or 90W in the 205?
Unless the vent for the 205 got stopped up, I cannot imagine the pressure building up enough to push out the seal.
I suppose if you had replaced the regular vent with an extended plastic hose like deep water folks do, and the fire melted it shut, that might do it.

Also, I agree that those holes look like something should be mounted there. But the combination of poor lighting and my general lack of knowledge of the outside of one of those models renders me unable to identify it.
That may be what fell off that the guy dodged.
 
Definately the green is the rear output seal of the T-case and once that came out so did whatever fluid you use in the t-case and then the fire was on shortly after that seal came out.
 
I have been so nervous for the last 7 hours while I haven't been able to get to the internet that someone would correct me in the video before I had a chance to salvage some shred of dignity. The line with melted insulation in the video that I say is the kickdown cable is obviously NOT the kickdown cable as it goes into the transfer case :doah:. It is the speedo cable. Whew, now that we got that out of the way...

Apparently, AAA was having a hard time tracking down a tow truck that would tow it this time around because it is too big to tow safely. A service guy came over and we took a look at everything. After taking a look at it, the seal is obviously what caught our eye. We figured that it was oil from the tcase that was originally burning and not atf. We pushed the seal back in and drove it 7 miles to a transmission shop. He followed me with his fire extinguisher at the ready. We made it without any issues.

The tranny guy (teehee) is going to take the xfer case and transmission down and inspect everything for free and chat with me in the morning. The guy was awesome though. He took nearly 30 minutes to chat with me about stuff and show me various things in his shop to illustrate what he was talking about. We talked about trans coolers and he is all about mounting them through the radiator, which I am pretty sure is a huge no-no. He said they do it all the time (for years and years) and never have issues.

I thought it was interesting when he was saying the coolers work better when you do not mount it in series with the internal radiator cooler. He said that in series makes the temperatures slightly lower, but at a cost of greatly reduced flow with a net effect of less effective transmission cooling. He also pointed out that the oil cools and lubricates (the planetaries) and if the flow is low and the planetaries aren't getting enough lubrication that it runs even hotter. Seems to make sense.

I am thinking the xfer case got too hot due to a number of factors. First, the transmission was likely quite hot and transferring a fair amount of heat to the xfer case. Second, my mufflers run right next to the xfer case (the muffler guys said years ago that it wouldn't be a problem, and it hasn't been, until now) and don't have a heat shield... but they will. Third, I guess I am an idiot and have totally neglected my xfer case - I had no idea it was something that needed to be checked like transmission fluid and engine oil. I am not saying it was low or anything, I just have never paid attention to it. I have had some liquid slowly saturating my cross member right under it, but I always assumed it was ATF (not enough to drip and puddle, just enough to keep it wet). In retrospect, it could have easily been oil from the tcase.

The transmission and xfer case are the last part of my driveline to have been replaced under my ownership, so this will give me pretty good peace of mind once I am beyond it.
 
DO NOT ever mount a trans cooler using fasteners that go through the fins of the radiator. Build a bracket and mount it to the radiator support. Also this guy is crazy about wanting to keep an aftermarket cooler completely seperate from the radiator cooler, doing this can cause the trans to run too cold in winter and too hot in summer.

I would bet that the t-case vent fitting is plugged and excessive pressure built up and pushed that rear seal out.
 
Fordum said:
That green thing looks like the rear shaft seal. If so, it definitely should not be there.
If it were not so far back, I would suspect that that was where the fluid came from. But I don't know how the fluid could get back up front.
Were you running transmission fluid or 90W in the 205?
Unless the vent for the 205 got stopped up, I cannot imagine the pressure building up enough to push out the seal.
I suppose if you had replaced the regular vent with an extended plastic hose like deep water folks do, and the fire melted it shut, that might do it.

Also, I agree that those holes look like something should be mounted there. But the combination of poor lighting and my general lack of knowledge of the outside of one of those models renders me unable to identify it.
That may be what fell off that the guy dodged.
Click to expand...

To clarify, I don't think the flames did go back up towards the front. I have never touched the fluid in the 205, but based on the residue and the smell when I drove it, it was 90w. I'll specifically ask tomorrow about the vent and if it was functioning. I have never given my tcase any attention and had no idea that it even had a vent. Learning a lot with this experience, for better or for worse. Perhaps someone else can comment about what might have been mounted at to those clean looking threads.
 
Good point about the too cold in the winter. I doubt that is much of a consideration for him based on the location. I'll bring up any and all concerns tomorrow when I talk to him.
 
The trans in your rig is a passenger car case and those two holes are where the cable shifter bracket bolted to (probably a camaro case originally).
 
It's kind of an interesting problem (except for the truck catching fire part). Since I just replaced that output seal on mine, I'm surprised the oil wouldn't simply push out from the lips of the seal rather than pushing the seal completely out. Those seals are pressed in pretty tight. I'd think the output shaft bearing failed or something else internally died to cause the seal to be forced out mechanically rather than through fluid pressure. I won't be surprised if I'm wrong though.

I guess it's also possible the rear trans seal failed and overfilled the transfer case. If the transfer case vent was plugged, that could be the cause of excess pressure, but that seal is a very tight fit and doesn't easily come out. It'll be interesting to hear what the cause was.
 
How hard was that seal to push in? It should not have necessarily required a driver, but it should have been necessary to pries it with a screwdriver or something.
If you could just push it in with your fingers, then something is wrong. Maybe the wrong seal, or a cracked housing.
But those housings are tough.

As for mounting the cooler through the radiator, thats fine, no problem.....IN CARS.
I have seen plenty of aftermarket fans and coolers mounted that way running up and down the highway with nothing bad happening.
But, the most vibration they see is when they hit a pothole. Running across a washboard road, or general wheeling, those can do real damage.

And you really lucked out on the speedo cable.
I saw that and chuckled.
I was going to gently call you on it, but I got sidetracked by the bracket mounting screw holes.
I figured that it had to have something to do with the shifter, but I had never seen them on one.
 
The service guy from AAA was there and he wanted to make sure I gave him a great review on the survey they send out, so I got him a couple pry bars (instead of screw drivers) and watched him push it in. I don't think it took a great deal of force, but he didn't simply push it in with his fingers either.

I just ordered the big mama jama stacked plate cooler (11 x 11 x 1.5) and a trans temp gauge. They should be here tomorrow or the next day. Even if the trans didn't have an issue, it seems like good insurance (as others have suggested). The trans guy is just about to take a look.
 
No surprise, the seals in the xfer case have to be replaced. I'll make sure the vent lines are clear if they aren't already. The guy said the pan for the transmission had a lot of material in it, that he described as a lot of wear and tear type stuff NOT a trashed bearing or something major. He said it would likely need a rebuild soon, so might as well rebuild it, but I am thinking about holding off on that because if I can delay a rebuild even 5 months, that would really help. Also, I like the idea of putting it off and maybe saving up for a 700r4 instead of paying for a rebuild and getting a 700r4 within the next two years anyways. The cooler and temp gauge are going in no matter what, and the seals in the np205 are going to be addressed, so I should be ok. Am I missing something here, or does this seem reasonable?
 
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