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Turning Issues

k20

k20

3/4 ton status
Joined
Sep 9, 2001
Posts
5,067
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Location
Mineral Springs, NC
Ok here goes, I had a 4" BDS lift, 1" zero rates, and 2" longer shackles in the front (1" of lift) so I had a total of 6" of lift up front. To correct this I had a raised steering arm (this is stock pushpull crap). I didnt have the best turning radius in the world, but it wasnt horrible. I could live with it.

Well after 7yrs the bds springs started sagging and I warrantied them out. When I found out the 6" ones were the same price, I opted for 6" springs and left out the zero rate so theoretically I would go up 1", well it went up 3" :doah:. After I put it in I had no turning radius in either direction. So I had to drive the truck that afternoon, went and grabbed a dropped draglink because my stock one was at like a 45* down angle. That helped it out somewhat but my radius is still terrible.

When I turn, now I am almost an inch away from the stops on the axle, when before I was almost touching them. (cant adjust them cause they are stuck). If I had to guess, now when I turn to full lock the tire might be at a 40* angle from the side of the truck....Heck, driving down the road I have to input more wheel to make simple turns than before. Everything is tight in the suspension, just cant figure out wtf happened. I do have an agr box, but its been on for awhile, and I got it right before they went downhill in quality. Appears that the pitman arm is making its full range of motion and the truck still does its raising up and down when you turn like it did before.

Any ideas?

Box is tight to the frame, no cracks, have a brace, you can see the leaf springs flex a little when you turn the wheel, all the joints look tight (no massive movement), and I dont have $$ right now for x-over, any ideas?
 
I was thinking, is there a longer pitman arm I could put on thatwould give me more forward to back movement of the draglink?
 
Cross-over.

I was flat amazed at the difference in my turing radius with cross over versus the push pull crap. I never measured exactly, but I swear I could turn a circle 10 feet tighter with cross-over.

A longer pitman would help you in the meantime, if you can find one.

Rene
 
Yeh I was wondering if there is an application for a pitman arm that could work? Crossover would be nice, but Im trying to save for a newer more dependable DD for a new job, and that is soaking up all the $$ at the moment.
 
I'd start with making the drag link as level to the ground as possible. The steeper the drag link angle the worse your steering will be. Imagine if your drag link was nearly vertical...you wouldn't have any steering. What you have right now is a less severe example.

I once measured center of kingpin to center of the hole on the steering arm on my D60 and compared it to the length of the pitman arm. Both were exactly 6" which is going to give you a pretty linear steering action if the drag link is very level. With crossover that angle is very slight.

I never did measure the stock curved steering arm though. It may actually be longer than the stock pitman arm which would explain the tighter turning radius Cross-over gives you.

Kinda rambly...sorry. Basically, get the drag link as level as you can and you'll get the best steering your current set-up is capable of.

Rene
 
I have that now between the raised steering arm and the dropped S-type draglink, I am basically parallel......just it seems the box doesnt have enough 'throw' to get it to come around, which is why I was thinking along the lines of a longer pitman arm. Of course I do have a 2wd box laying here so if there is a longer arm for a 2wd box I could run that and then just clock it out the side like the stock 4wd style is and retain pushpull til funds allow crossover (assuming the 2wd can be clock in 4 positions as I recall it being).

Its not alot worse than it was before, but it was at the ragged edge of being manageable before, now its pretty crappy, as in there is no way in hell I can drive to walmart right now and make turns in the parking lot.
 
Well, I just measured my stock 2WD pitman and it's 5". The superlift pitman from ORD is 6" long. Maybe a 2WD box (if you can clock the arm) and the superlift arm would do the trick. An extra inch of pitman arm length would gain you a bunch more steering...

Rene
 
....interesting.....how much of a drop is the superlift arm? Just for the heck of it I posted up a wanted for some flattops already machined....if it aint too expensive I MIGHT go that route......even though I have no money for it, I have to be able to steer....bleh....
 
I made a minor mistake. The Superlift pitman is 6 1/2" long (as is the ORD steering arm). That's center of the hole to center of the other hole.

The drop on the pitman is 4".

Rene
 
yeh the prob is it dont turn either direction......if it wasnt centered I should be hitting the stops one way but not the other......least that would be my thinking, and my 4wd pitman arm can only be put on one way and it is perpendicular to the frame.
 
I ran that arm with a 6" lift...why wouldn't it work for you? All you need with that arm is a straight drag link which you had originally.

Rene
 
b/c in the process of getting the old draglink out it was.....molested......so I would have to get atleast 1 new end.....*sigh*......but on a side note, I just walked in and I measured my stock arm and from the center of the sector shaft, to the center of the hole for the dle, it is right at 6", so I dont think that arm would give me any benefit, of course I am measuring on the truck so I could be a little off.
 
Ok, the rain finally slacked up so I went back out, crawled under and had my dad crank the wheel back and forth. If you have the truck jacked up, it runs back and forth from steering stop to steering stop. If you set it back on the ground, it seriously loses half of its turning radius.

The shackles are moving.....alot.....when you turn one direction, they move fairly far positive (bottom bolt to the front of the truck compared to the top) and when you turn the opposite direction they go slightly negative. Also you can see the axle itself 'twist' You can see the pinion move up or down depending on which direction you are turning.......WTF......I know all of this is supposed to move some, but losing half of my radius b/c of suspension movement?!?!
 
How are the upper shackle bushings? I'm assuming the bushings in the new springs are also new and poly...but if the uppers are old and worn it might allow things to move where they shouldn't. How about front tire air pressure? Low pressure would create more friction at the contact patch. If the truck is moving forward slowly can you get it to hit the steering stops?

Rene
 
upper bushings are relatively new and poly, I'll go check on the moving and see if itll hit the stops.
 
OK...how closely have you looked at the steering box itself? if the bolts are even slightly loose it'll rotate and move while steering. DLE's...new?

How is the rag joint on the steering shaft?

Rene
 
Steering box I have checked twice since I put on the lift, they are all tight. The DL is new and joints are tight. The rag joint is non existant, I have an XJ shaft. None of the other joints appear loose. I think I am figuring out what the problem is though.

My thinking is that with the higher lift springs, the pushpull steering is causing the springs to twist, pushing/pulling on the shackles and that is storing up my 'turning energy' versus putting it to the ground. Reason I say this is after laying behind the tire (now I know what a squirrel feels like) you can see where when the axle rotates the steering arm is rotating as well, and because it is above the axle centerline it is gaining a fair bit of up/down movement instead of front/back again losing turning ability.....I think my only solution will be x-over.......damn.....Is my thinking correct on all this? (I hated geometry)

Soooooo I was looking at the skymfg kit, they are a little cheaper than ORD, and their knuckle machining is cheaper and they have a standard height arm and a tall arm, which one would I need?
 
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