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what front end is this? its a dana, says 602f??

blazin_blazer

blazin_blazer

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i found an old dodge at the back of a local used car lot, it has closed knuckle frontend... so i first thought d50 or d70(iirc, both had a closed knuckle version), but on the web where 60f is on d60 fronts,...it has 602f...wtf is that?:dunno:

its on tractor tires w/v8/standard trans/divorced t-case/ w/rear PTO winch, the rear end is d70 w/weird hubs...the t-case looks funny at the rear output also, can anyone id this front end and the t-case and anything else you can id, please do so,..

I'm going back tomorrow when they are open and see what they are asking for it, shouldn't be much IMO! if its not to much and they will take a trade-in, i might try to trade my 96 Tahoe w/blown tranny to them for the old dodge and some cash!

anyway, on to the pics, please try to id any and all things that you recognize, so i will know, when i go talk to them(knowledge of the truck will make me look like i know what I'm talking about and this could be helpful when i say its worth $X amount!...thanks ahead of time, I'll let the pics do the rest of the talking, if you see something tell-tell for a positive id on the parts, by all means post up your thoughts and/or knowledge!

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the front end

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w/ hydro assist steering

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PTO & divorced t-case

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here is rear t-case output, what is that big azz thing bolted on the back of the case where the yoke hooks up?

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and the rear end

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and the tires

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any of that look familiar to any of ya'll?
 
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Looks like a closed knuckle D60 to me. It will have smaller joints and shafts (approx. the same size as later D44 stuff) than the D60's you are used to.
 
next to last pic...looks like it may have an adapter plate to convert standard 8 lug to those tractor rims.

so you guys think those are srw or drw axles?

is this thing worth having, just to run the mud pit on saturdays?
 
T-case looks like an NP200 with the band brake removed. Search NP200, there were a few threads on these.
 
I will bet that most of the drivetrain is from a M-715. They have 60 fronts, 70 rears and np200 t-cases. The 60 front has small shafts and u-joints so you probably won't want it. They also have a big 6-lug bolt pattern just like the ones in your pics. My dad has a M-715 but unfortunatly its' located about an hour away so i couldn't ID the front axle for ya until this sunday. That big thing on the back of the t-case looks like a mount for the vehicle it originally came out of.
This is an M-715 in case you have never seen one before:
m715.jpg
 
Jason4x4 said:
What's with the u-bolt in this pic? is it bent? does a closed knuckle 60 use a u-dolt there instead of bolts?
Click to expand...

Yes the u-bolt is bent. I bet the threaded holes are stripped and that is the way they fixed the problem.:doah: I think the bracket on the back of the t case is for a band e-brake.

Mike
 
I'm going to guess M-715 running gear as well. Contrary to what others are saying the axle shafts aren't that bad. The stubs are larger than a stock Chevy 60, the u-joints are the same size but they use no seals because of the closed knuckle. The inner axles taper down to 1.31 30 spline. Parts are not that difficult to obtain although somewhat more troublesome than parts for a later open knuckle 60.

Gus
 
if its just a closed knuckle 60f, why does it have 602f cast into it? i didn't get by there before they closed today, but i looked at it again, that front u-bolt is indeed bent, i looked at the front housing and there aren't any holes for bolts...it looked like it may have had some of the housing cut away in that area tho.

if that is a np200 t-case...will that PTO drive fit either a np205 or a sm465?

tomorrow, I'll try again to get by there before they close and see what they are asking for it.

did the m-715 come w/ any kind of locker up front? what gear ratio is usually found in the m-715?...and if it is just a closed knuckle 60, will the carrier/locker fit in a regular open knuckle d60f?

the rear d70, is it stronger than a 14bff? can that 70 rear be swapped to disk brakes w/ regular 8 lug pattern?(would it be worth the trouble?) and is the wheel track wide enuff for a k5? since it has a divorced t-case, everything should swap to 1 of my parts k5's w/any 2wd motor and tranny, too make 1 heck of a beater!

or would you just leave it like it is and beat on it each Saturday at the mud bog?
 
scrap prices are up so its definitely worth something. But it looks like someone is trying to sell someone elses headache. you would be better off buying the axles you want then trying to convert those.

but if it was cheap and had a decent motor then it could be fun in the mud. who cares if a locker is available, just weld the diffs.
 
i already have the axles i want, i have a sm465/np205/d60f/14bff(hydro-brakes,pedals,etc,etc...i completly stripped a 84-86 k30, down to wiper & blower motors..i took everything) out of 84-86 k30 for my rig(k5),

i was just curious if the front in the m-715(closed knuckle d60) is what is in this old dodge..

and if so, would that carrier fit the open knuckle, open diff d60f i already have. b/c the old dodge may have low gears & lockers, if so that would compensate for some of the price of the old dodge, as i could swap those parts into my k5(the cost of gears, lockers, pto, pto winch, pto d-shaft, & the steering hydro-steer ram...vs. asking price of the old dodge

and if the d70 has a locker and is stronger or equal to a 14bff and can be made to have 8 lugs, disk brakes and is the right width, i wouldn't have to buy lower gears & locker for my 14bff, and could put the matching gear d70 in the rear of my k-5.(but also keep my 14bff)

put a welded d60hd rear, thats just sittin in my yard, in the old dodge w/ an adapter to fit the tractor rims(unless the d60hd and d70 rear hubs can be swapped with each other, if so, do that)....along w/ my open knuckle d60f carrier in that axle marked 602f in the old dodge and lincoln lock it, and then have fun w/ the old dodge or sell it, for what i gave for it!

i guess what i'm tryin to say is, considering the price to regear my d60f w/ a locker, buy a pto take off, buy a pto winch & pto d-shaft and regearing my rearend w/ locker....versus' the asking price of the old dodge, it could possibly be cheaper to buy the old dodge, take the parts i want, then sell it back off....but this strictly depends on whether or not the dodge is low geared and has lockers and mainly if its carrier will fit my d60f, and if the pto will fit either my sm465 or np205 and if the gear matching rear d70 is desirable.

is that clear as mud? i still don't understand the 602f marking if its a 60f?

edit: where can i find specs on m-715?
 
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Those are M715 axles. The t-case isn't an M715 NP200, if it was it would have another rear output for the rear drive shaft. The bracket is for a parking brake, it should have a drum and a band around the outside of the drum. Looks like it was removed to put the yoke on. Probably the original dodge t-case.

The front is the m715 60, 30 spline inners, 30 outers if I remember correctly and 5.87 gears open. The front knuckles are known for cracking where they are welded to the axle housing. They have put the steering arms on the bottom of the knuckles so they could run the push pull set up.

The rear is a Dana 70 with 23 spline shafts, 5.89 gears, 2 piece carrier, and open most likely. You can convert the rear to 8 lug if you do get it.

Those drum brakes are also notorious for blowing out wheel cyl.

PaulC (use to have a m715 and m725)
 
This is how I interpret all of this (and from what I've heard)

As deadlew said the shafts are small both front and rear (not to mention the 50 year old metallugy and fatigue that they have), they have knuckle problems and they have terrible (and heavy) drum brakes.

There are two carriers for low pinion dana 60 carriers, one for 4.10 and numerically lower ratios and one for 4.56 and numerically higher ratios.

The closed knuckle 60 should use the same carrier and ring and pinion as any other low pinion D60. So yes, you can switch them (though swapping gears isn't nearly as easy as removing them from that axle and putting them in yours). The carrier will have 30 spline shafts, I have no idea if the 35 spline side gears from a newer 60 will fit that carrier.

AFAIK none of the OEM's ever put lockers in the front of a truck like that.



That D70 is not worth messing with IMO. The coarse spline shafts basically mean you will need to replace the carrier and shafts to do anything with it. If you really need gears lower than 5.38 (the lowest a 14 bolt can go) then get a newer D70.
 
ok...the PTO comes off of the side of this t-case(bolt on unit), your saying the m-715 t-case had PTO integral w/ 2 outputs on t-case, 1 of which is the PTO.
 
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