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What would an "upgrade" be without more problems? (NP241 issue)

dyeager535

dyeager535

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On my second rebuild of the same t-case. My goal of not going crazy with RTV didn't serve me well the first time, so had to yank it out to re-seal it.

Unknown quantity 241, but looked good inside when I tore it down. No issues I saw when I opened it.

First rebuild (after installing the JB SYE kit) I noticed that it didn't like going into 4 low. Just wasn't there most of the time, figured it was adjustment of the shifter. Didn't have time to test it much. Took it out for a weekend, never used 4WD, saw the leaks and yanked it out to re-seal it.

Second rebuild I took as much care as the first, just more RTV. Put it back in, played with the shifter, adjusted it to where the detents matched up with the shifter pattern pretty well, and tested. 2, 4 high, and neutral work correctly. 4 low grinds. I adjusted the shift rod multiple times, shifted by hand, it will not go in gear, even with the shift rod adjusted for maximum force into 4 low. Shifter now bottoms out in the case instead of the shifter assembly, but still just grinds.

As GM decided by 1991 that no one needed to see inside a t-case, I don't have a manual to really look and see what I did wrong on assembly. I feel I followed the JB instructions to a T, and paid close attention to the orientation of everything, but it's pretty obvious I am the variable that caused this issue. My internet is worthless, I'm lucky to be able to view CK5, so videos are out. I recall one of the shift collars(?) could be installed upside down, and that would cause an issue, but I don't remember what the symptoms of that would be.

So BESIDES me being an idiot, what is it?
 
I believe that there is only the one shift collar. And yes, I believe that you are correct that it can be installed backwards. My memory thinks that it could cause your symptom.
But it has been over a year since I had a 241 open.
 
Not the more serious problem, but I’m a fully converted fan of “rightstuff” and have stopped using regular RTV on critical leak areas. Something to consider.
 
How is that stuff to get off? I'm not looking forward to removing the RTV that I used this time, the thin amount I used the first time was a pain to remove, I have four times as much to remove this time.

I've heard good things of "Rightstuff", just haven't used it yet. Has anyone used it on the case halves of the 208/241's? I assume it will work fine, again, just have no experience with it.
 
You need to use anaerobic sealer on aluminum case halves. Your shift fork may be worn and not allowing full throw of the collar because it is not pushing it far enough. I do think you can have the fork in backward but would probably just not shift all together. Your issue definitely resides in the collar, fork, and shaft area.
It sounds like the collar is not being pushed into position all the way.
 
That's what was going through my head. I'm pretty sure its the "synchro hub ring" upside down as JB Conversions calls it. Unfortunately I was unable to find any pictures clear enough/close enough to be confident I had it oriented correctly on assembly. Tried to be exceptionally careful on disassembly, but mistakes happen.
 
That.s why I use a camera in take apart for future reassembly.
 
i hardly use reg old rtv anymore .

thin coat of rightstuff sealer . and i buy it in the spray like cheese wiz .
 
dyeager535 said:
How is that stuff to get off? I'm not looking forward to removing the RTV that I used this time, the thin amount I used the first time was a pain to remove, I have four times as much to remove this time.

I've heard good things of "Rightstuff", just haven't used it yet. Has anyone used it on the case halves of the 208/241's? I assume it will work fine, again, just have no experience with it.
Click to expand...

I actually haven’t had to remove it yet because nothing has leaked. It looks more like a hard paste than a stretchy flimsy rubber to it might not peel off as easy as RTV does. I used it between my aluminum nv4500 output and an aluminum ORD magnum as recommended by ORD. Apply like cheese-whiz, bolt parts together and done.
 
As someone who did the sye this last winter. It was super easy, but yes you can install the shift collar backwards. It even points that out in the directions. A green scotch bright rolok makes the rtv removal super quick. I used right stuff both times. First time was due to not getting proper torque on the bolts.
 
jekquistk5 said:
As someone who did the sye this last winter. It was super easy, but yes you can install the shift collar backwards. It even points that out in the directions. A green scotch bright rolok makes the rtv removal super quick. I used right stuff both times. First time was due to not getting proper torque on the bolts.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, I paid close attention to that backwards note, but it didn't come apart and go back together the same day, so it very well may have gotten flipped over when I set it down and picked it back up, cleaned it, whatever. I should have stamped the damn thing. It would be helpful if there was info given on how to ID the "top" of the ring. Obviously there is a difference, I assume where the groove is cut for the fork.

Good tip on the scotch bright!
 
I know a lot of guys like the "right stuff" but really the only thing it has going for it is the thick viscosity that stays put better until it fully dries. I have used most all types of silicones, and for anything that matters, I use ultra grey. As long as all surfaces involved were cleaned with brake clean beforehand, it will never leak. Maybe they have changed the right stuff over the years, but I have seen it kind of harden and get brittle, and start leaking. As far as dried silicone removal, a little brake clean makes it come off much easier.
 
As far as orientation of the collar I believe there is a different shape to the teeth to help engagement. The teeth are pointed on the end that has to slip over the rotating part of the other hub gears. They have little ramps that smooth the shift out.
 
obijuank5 said:
As far as orientation of the collar I believe there is a different shape to the teeth to help engagement. The teeth are pointed on the end that has to slip over the rotating part of the other hub gears. They have little ramps that smooth the shift out.
Click to expand...

I don't have any reference material handy, does the shift collar push towards the rear (back of case) as you go from 2 hi, or pull forward (front of case)? I recall the cut on the teeth, but didn't take the time to figure out which direction it moved...I thought I had it right so why bother? On disassembly, I need to verify the way it presently is, vs. how it should be, to ensure that is the issue.
 
nvrenuf said:
If you need anything else let me know.
Click to expand...

I love their note..scribe it before disassembly lol. I should be able to figure it out, appreciate that. Interesting that the 1991 manual doesn't have that info, explains why all the schematics I've seen that look factory were ifs. Which can get confusing lol.
 
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