Who makes a beast 5 speed for around 650-750 ftlbs of torque?

[Stomis]

For the 442. I'm just killing time looking into future plans for my cutlass. Next year or 2 I plan on building a wicked motor for it. Something like a roller 383 with afr 235 elimantors, a comp blower cam, Magna charger mp 122, all forged, etc etc. In comparison to 383 builds I've seen with cheaper heads and a weiand 142 my 650/650 goal shouldnt be difficult since the mp122 was suppose to be much more efficient than a 142.

Its going to be wicked but very streetable. The plan is to run a mid to flat 10 with no juice. If I can plant it it should be cake but when I upgrade to the 2nd motor I want to swap in a stick.


I know the TKO is an awesome transmission but its input rated to like 550 or 580 ftlbs. I havent seen any other conventional standard transmissions rated over that.

Thoughts comments? I've read alot of comments along the lines of "The TKOs rating is super conservative and should be good for quite a bit more hp"

 

[Greg72]

Check out Rocklin Standard Gear...

They build 5 and 6-speed gearboxes good to around 1200HP and 1000TQ.

 

[Stomis]

$7000!

 

[howdiy]

Jerico, Rankin, Tex t101a

All 4 speeds but they will hold up for around 2000-2500. Jerico also makes nice 5 and 6 speed transmissions. Straight cut gears so they whine.

Or you could just stick with the TKO and not get too stupid.

 

[Greg72]

$7000!

If you want to wear big boy pants and throw around large HP/TQ numbers you had better have the wallet to match.

Cheap HP is a fantasy.

 

[folkenheath]

If you are looking for a lot of info on the G-bodys, especially drag racing with them, look at www.maliburacing.com

And if you want that much power, build a TH400 or a 4L80E, a TH400 can be built for 700 - 800 ft lbs easy, if you want OD the 4L80E can be just as strong, but it's more $$$.

I have a 81 Regal in the mid 10s with a cheap 383 (~$2400) I built when I was 18 (13 years ago). However, since it's a stock cast 400 crank, and stock rods with ARP bolts, and it runs high 11s and I spray it into the 10s, it could end any pass! It has a TH400 I have about $300, plus a $400(probably $700 these days) 10" converter. I drive it an hour to the track and drive it home, so one of these days it could cost me to get it home. But if it goes it will be an excuse to build a 540 BB now that I am not 18 anymore.

So I say cheap HP is doable, it's RELIABLE horsepower that costs a lot of dough.

 

[Greg72]

So I say cheap HP is doable, it's RELIABLE horsepower that costs a lot of dough.

That was my point too...

- Cheap
- Fast
- Reliable

(Pick any two from the list... the third one is unavailable to you)


The idea of a "very streetable" 650HP car is a joke unless you have beaucoup bucks to spend to make it all work reliably. I hate to say it but building the big, crazy motor is probably the EASY part....maybe even the cheapest part. Everything downstream of that needs to be completely reworked too (trans, drivelines, axle, brakes, suspension, wheels, tires, frame/unibody, blinker fluid).....

 

[folkenheath]

Agree with Greg completely, very vaild points.

I should mention I have a 12 bolt with fabbed upper control arms with heims, boxed lowers, and a reinforced frame (I cracked it once before) and a 1350 d-shaft (shortened from a 1 ton truck) in addition to the TH400. Or I would would been broke many times already. So keep in mind what he said, you have to beef everything up.

 

[Stomis]

I'm gonna go with the tko and not be stupid I think.

And I would consider my plan to be cheap, reliable, and fast for what I'm getting.

4 bolt main 350: .040 over, main studs - $400 (I know a machinist)

Eagle fully forged dished pistons, rods, crank - $1950

76cc AFR 235 Eliminators fully dressed - $1450

Comp cams hydro roller cam - $400

Magnason Charger MP122 Twin Screw Blower w/ carb - $2700

TKO 5 speed - $1400

Clutch/Flywheel - $500


If I have any issues on the bottom end (which I doubt) I'll go to a dart SHP block 440ci...

 

[Greg72]

Keep going.......you've only priced out two of the items in my simple list

(engine, trans, drivelines, axle, brakes, suspension, wheels, tires, frame/unibody, blinker fluid).....


Are you just going to ignore everything else or wait until you scatter parts to deal with weak links?

 

[folkenheath]

You also forgot about intake manifold, exhaust, fuel supply system, cooling system, etc. It's going to add up to a LOT more than you plan on. And if you do get it all working, anything under 11.50 will need a cage, driveshaft safetly loop, safety clothing, SFI balancer and flexplate, SFI bellhousing, aftermarket axle shafts, etc. You don't want your feet cut to crap by ring gear teeth that already went through the trans and the floor, or your car launched upside down by a broken driveshaft, especially with no cage!

Also, supercharger with no intercooler? Or does it come with one?

 

[Stomis]

Keep going.......you've only priced out two of the items in my simple list

(engine, trans, drivelines, axle, brakes, suspension, wheels, tires, frame/unibody, blinker fluid).....


Are you just going to ignore everything else or wait until you scatter parts to deal with weak links?

Dont be silly I'm not a half asser. The car is gonna be setup the rest of the way around from stage 1 which I'm doing right now.

Its a 442 base model with a 8.5in rear. Might suck in the trucks but theyre amazing in the cars and live really long in FAST gns and typhoons. Some time between 1st and second motor I plan on putting mosier shafts in it. When the second motor goes in it will probably get a detroit over the posi.


I currently have the entire suspension out right now. Its blasted, painted, boxed control arms, and a new energy suspension kit all around. Brakes are stock replacements for the time being but good quality.

Wheels and tires will be in a couple weeks. Going to be running 275/60 BFG TAs in the back with 235/60 BFG TA comps in the front for the street.

Its a full frame car which is a beautiful thing so I can skip things like subframe connectors. And the car is an F41 suspension option from the factory so it has triangulated chassis stiffeners up front stock. I plan on making a crossmember to tie the rear frame rails together anyway.

 

[Stomis]

You also forgot about intake manifold, exhaust, fuel supply system, cooling system, etc. It's going to add up to a LOT more than you plan on. And if you do get it all working, anything under 11.50 will need a cage, driveshaft safetly loop, safety clothing, SFI balancer and flexplate, SFI bellhousing, aftermarket axle shafts, etc. You don't want your feet cut to crap by ring gear teeth that already went through the trans and the floor, or your car launched upside down by a broken driveshaft, especially with no cage!

Also, supercharger with no intercooler? Or does it come with one?

Intake manifold is included with the SC. Its a twinscrew so no IC. It looks like a roots blower but its more advanced technology. No reversion there so no super heated intake temps.

Exhaust will be setup from the previous motor as well as the cooling system. Fuel system will be a frame rail pusher with the stock pickup and tank.

Ignition will be an MSD billet dizzy and 6AL that I'm going to steal from my dads vette when I give him the vortec motor.

 

[folkenheath]

Go check out that malibu site, they can help with engine and chassis tuning for those cars, especially for drag.

You can still get an intercooler for a roots style, but they go between the blower and the lower manifold and take up hood space.

You will want some sort of boost timing retard for that for max performance. Like a MSD 6BTM or a programmable is even better. You can add it seperately in addition to the 6AL as well.

Stock fuel tank pickup is not going to supply 700 hp very well, might want to look into getting a new tank and weld in a bottom sump, I wouldn't try and weld on a used tank, not worth the risk. Or put a fuel cell in but there goes your trunk.

The 8.5 is a good rear, but it still uses c-clip axles I believe. You will need c-clip eliminators to be NHRA legal, along with the upgraded axles. It's better to get the correct ends welded on for the street, many times c-clip eliminators end up leaking, they can't take the side loads of street driving.

Also, I wouldn't put a detroit in a fast drag car. When you let off the gas after you go through the eyes at the big end, the cam will reverse and sometimes that action at high speed can cause the car to go out of control, at the highest speed you will be going. And that's not good. My uncle builds drag cars and races all over the country for a living, and he does not recommend detroits in drag cars. If you don't want a posi (eaton, trutrac, wavetrac, etc), then just drop a spool in it. You can still street drive it, just expect more tire wire, and be extremely careful in the rain.

It sounds like a very fun, capable car. The g-bodys are the lightest full frame GM cars made. But it's going to take more money and more work then you estimate, trust me.

 

[JEBSR]

I would think twice before using a 8.5. Sure, some people somewhere have one that has held up. However more people with any real power have broken them. I have broken several in cars running only 375-475 Hp on a naturally aspirated car. A supercharged car is a whole new world. Your talking about instant power. You will grenade a 8.5 with the numbers you are talking about running. Do yourself a favor and get a quality aftermarket 9" bolt in unit. They really aren't that expensive for what you get.

 

[80' 427]

My camaro had a Super t10 and it handled many many 4500-5000rpm clutch dumps (my tq is over 600). It is the 12 bolt that couldn't handle it. 3-4 ring and pinions later I went to a braked th400.

 

[Stomis]

Go check out that malibu site, they can help with engine and chassis tuning for those cars, especially for drag.

You can still get an intercooler for a roots style, but they go between the blower and the lower manifold and take up hood space.

You will want some sort of boost timing retard for that for max performance. Like a MSD 6BTM or a programmable is even better. You can add it seperately in addition to the 6AL as well.

Stock fuel tank pickup is not going to supply 700 hp very well, might want to look into getting a new tank and weld in a bottom sump, I wouldn't try and weld on a used tank, not worth the risk. Or put a fuel cell in but there goes your trunk.

The 8.5 is a good rear, but it still uses c-clip axles I believe. You will need c-clip eliminators to be NHRA legal, along with the upgraded axles. It's better to get the correct ends welded on for the street, many times c-clip eliminators end up leaking, they can't take the side loads of street driving.

Also, I wouldn't put a detroit in a fast drag car. When you let off the gas after you go through the eyes at the big end, the cam will reverse and sometimes that action at high speed can cause the car to go out of control, at the highest speed you will be going. And that's not good. My uncle builds drag cars and races all over the country for a living, and he does not recommend detroits in drag cars. If you don't want a posi (eaton, trutrac, wavetrac, etc), then just drop a spool in it. You can still street drive it, just expect more tire wire, and be extremely careful in the rain.

It sounds like a very fun, capable car. The g-bodys are the lightest full frame GM cars made. But it's going to take more money and more work then you estimate, trust me.

I never knew they had coolers to go between the blower and manifold.

And I'm well aware it will be more money than I expect lol.

I may just grab a 9in from the junkyard and put the proper brackets on it when the time comes.

And as far as cage and NHRA rules go, the thing isnt going to be at the track much more than that first what will it run pass. That will probably be it.

 

[JEBSR]

The 03-04 cobra's and the s/c lightnings have a cooler under the supercharger. The supercoupes also came with an inter-cooler setup. It was different though as the supercharger was mounted on top of the engine but the plumbing routed the air out and into an inter-cooler setup and then back into the intake where the cobra's and lightnings had a cooler under the S/C.

 

[folkenheath]

And as far as cage and NHRA rules go, the thing isnt going to be at the track much more than that first what will it run pass. That will probably be it.

That's what you say now...

But be prepared to be dissapointed with that first pass. People cars are pretty much always slower than they expect. Anyone who hasn't been to the track has an 11 second car or faster. And then you start thinking, I know it will go faster than that. And when you start tuning is when it gets interesting. And then you get kind of hooked and you have to go back and try and get a new best time.

Or you could be one of the many who say, "my car will run 10s". And you ask them, oh, nice, what was your best ET? And they either say, "oh, I've never ran it". Or, well, my best was blah blah, but I know it will run 10s if I just do yada yada"


I'll give you an example. I though my car was running well when I was about 19, never missed, pulled pretty strong, would smoke them for 100 yards from a stomp if I wanted, I was expecting mid 12s with sticky tires, and my first pass ever was 13.44 @102. I didn't get to go back for a while because of college. But next time I went back I posted a 12.55, then a 12.30. Then 11.94, then 11.89 @ 113. And this was with the same engine (intake to oil pan), same trans, same converter, same rear gear, and up through the 12.30, the same tires.

What did I change?...carb and jets, timing (not much), eliminated many engine driven accessories, and weight.

When I finally got it into the 11s, then I sprayed it....

I guess the lesson is, don't plan on going to the track and having and awesome first pass. Plan on some work to get it to be fast.

 

[80' 427]

My stories are much like this. First time ever, being sure it would run a 13. It ran a 15.20. I worked and worked with the same engine getting it to 14.20. My current car makes plenty of power but the hook eludes me. I have run one 7.04 since then mostly 7.20s. I can't call it a 10 second car till it truly runs a 10 or 1/8th mile equivalent. One thing I know for sure Dynos and Drag Strips are dream crushers.