why Superwinch sucks! (Warn saves the day!)

[andyblack]

Why does Superwinch suck?

Our story begins in Feb. '09. I tried to make it through a deceptively deep water hole and got stuck bad. (View my photo album on this site for details.) After my truck sat out all night in the water, I was able to get a hold of a guy that was willing (for a small fee) to extract it with his Warn 15k winch. A light bulb came on and I realized I didn't want to ever repeat this episode. So the next day I went down to Northern Tool and bought a Superwinch LP8500 because it was the cheapest one they had. They had some Warn winches in stock, but I thought, why spend a lot of money on one of those overpriced Warns when I probably won't be using it that often since I'm not a hard core wheeler or anything? I'll just get this $400 job and it will pull me out if I ever get stuck again. So I took it home, mounted it up and did a couple of test pulls beside the house just to make sure it worked. It worked just fine.

Fast forward to Dec, '09. I had only used the winch about twice in the 10 months I had owned it (once just to straighten out a bent fender on a utility trailer after a blowout). I got a call about two guys who were stuck in a muddy pecan orchard and wanted me to pull them out. Sure I can. I have my Superwinch. So I drove about 20 miles over there, got out in the mud, hooked up one of the trucks, put the winch controller in place and hit the button. Click. Tried it again. Click click. The motor wasn't engaging! I took the lid off. No loose connections. I tapped on the relays with a screwdriver handle. Nothing. I was pissed!

The next morning I called Stupidwinch and they told me that there was a one year warranty on the winch. Just take it back to where I bought it. So I took the piece of crap off my truck and took it back to Northern Tool. They exchanged it for a new one, but said that since the one year was almost over, I should buy a two or three year replacement guarantee from them for like $70 or something. Yeah right. I told them that if this one ever quit, I was just going to throw it in the trash and go with something else. Prophetic words...

I figured the reason it failed was because I'd never had a cover on it and I park outside, so it must have gotten water down in the electrics somehow and something had corroded. So I ordered the $50 cover they sell and put on it. I had to rig up some straps to keep it on the winch since it didn't fit and it faded from black to a light purple in about four months. Since that time, I've only used the winch a few times - a couple of test pulls the first day I had it, moving a piano across a porch onto a trailer and pulling some dude's Crown Vic off a root he'd high centered on in a construction area. No problems at all.

Yesterday, there was a big dead limb hanging right over my front porch, so I decided to climb up in the tree, hook a strap to it and use the Suckywinch to pull it down. So I climb up the tree, hook up the strap, climb back down, pull the truck around, hook the cable to the strap, put the controller in place and hit the button. Click. This winch has quit too!! WTF!!

I'm not even going to bother troubleshooting that POS or taking it back to Northern Tool or anything. I'm just going to cut my losses and be thankful that I wasn't stuck in another mud hole or rock pile yesterday when it happened (it was 100 degrees out there). I've decided to buy a Warn so I won't have to worry about this situation ever again. I think I've narrowed my choices down to the XD9000 and the XD9000i. Who has experience with these winches?

I will never waste my time with Superwinch again!!

 

[Stomis]

I've got a Milemarker 12000e I got used but rebuilt for $400 on CL. Hasnt failed me yet.

My point is that you dont need to pay for an overpriced warn to get a good winch. If you dead set on a warn then get a Tabor theyre rebranded Warns. And btw why dont you just go all out and get a 12000 pounder?

 

[Greg72]

Sometimes you have to have that kind of experience to help you understand that "overpriced" might actually be the right price, and a cheaper product is just that......

At least you are only out the cost of a single winch. Imagine if you had to pay for two of those $400 winches BEFORE spending the money on the WARN...

 

[andyblack]

I looked at the Tabor. It only has a one year warranty, just like the Superwinch. I would just like to know that my winch will work when called upon. I just really don't think I can trust another one of those bargain winches. Some people say they've used them a lot with no problems, but I'm tired of having something like that fail. It could happen when I'm halfway through a pull with my truck (or someone else's) stuck halfway up a steep hill or something. That's not the time to find out your winch sucks. I bet if you typed "electric recovery winch failures" into Google, not many instances would come up with Warn as the offender. Most of them would be the cheaper winches, for sure.

As far as the 12,000 lb. winches, winch depot is selling the 9,000 lb. ones a good bit cheaper...but there I go, trying to save money again.

This month I've already bought a bass guitar and some backpacking equipment and paid to have my windows tinted. If I buy a really expensive winch, I may go broke and have to stake out down by the river and wait for rednecks to get stuck in the mud so I can charge them to pull them out and make some money to pay for the thing. I could even dig the ruts out deeper, hehe. I don't want to do that. It's really hot out there.

 

[Stomis]

I looked at the Tabor. It only has a one year warranty, just like the Superwinch. I would just like to know that my winch will work when called upon. I just really don't think I can trust another one of those bargain winches. Some people say they've used them a lot with no problems, but I'm tired of having something like that fail. It could happen when I'm halfway through a pull with my truck (or someone else's) stuck halfway up a steep hill or something. That's not the time to find out your winch sucks. I bet if you typed "electric recovery winch failures" into Google, not many instances would come up with Warn as the offender. Most of them would be the cheaper winches, for sure.

As far as the 12,000 lb. winches, winch depot is selling the 9,000 lb. ones a good bit cheaper...but there I go, trying to save money again.

This month I've already bought a bass guitar and some backpacking equipment and paid to have my windows tinted. If I buy a really expensive winch, I may go broke and have to stake out down by the river and wait for rednecks to get stuck in the mud so I can charge them to pull them out and make some money to pay for the thing. I could even dig the ruts out deeper, hehe. I don't want to do that. It's really hot out there.

Hey its up to you man. I know if I ever buy a new winch it will be a Tabor. I may throw the 12000e in the back of the s10 when I build it and buy a 9000 lb tabor for the front but a 9000lber is more than enough for a 4000lb s10. Your blazer is a little fatter.

 

[4X4HIGH]

I have the XD9000 and I love it. I personally don't like the integrated winches for a couple reasons but the biggest is that if the electrical controller goes bad you're pretty much dead until you can repair it. At least with the non integrated you could still use the winch by jumpering some terminals as long as the motor isn't the problem. Also the integrated is a little harder to package into a small space given the overall height of the winch.

 

[andyblack]

I have the XD9000 and I love it. I personally don't like the integrated winches for a couple reasons but the biggest is that if the electrical controller goes bad you're pretty much dead until you can repair it. At least with the non integrated you could still use the winch by jumpering some terminals as long as the motor isn't the problem. Also the integrated is a little harder to package into a small space given the overall height of the winch.

That makes sense. I have plenty of room on my bumper for the i model, but I was wondering how easy it would be to repair.

When you talk about jumpering some terminals, what do you mean - bypassing the solenoids?

 

[4X4HIGH]

That makes sense. I have plenty of room on my bumper for the i model, but I was wondering how easy it would be to repair.

When you talk about jumpering some terminals, what do you mean - bypassing the solenoids?

You could either jumper the solenoids or power either of the leads directly on the winch motor (one makes the motor turn clockwise, the other counter clockwise).

 

[andyblack]

Good to know.

What about keeping a cover over the winch? Does a Warn really need a cover? Is everything sealed up well enough so that it would be okay without one?

 

[nvrenuf]

I thought the Tabor winches were Chinese made?

A quick story... TARussell got his Dodge stuck and needed to be winched. When the 12k Tabor (on a Jeep) wouldn't do it we figured it was bad enough for 2 winches so we hooked a 2nd to the truck to use them together. The 2nd was a Warn 9k and it out pulled the Tabor in both strength and speed. The 9k pulled the Dodge out by itself because the Tablor was slower (cable laying on the ground).

In case you didn't notice, I'm a firm believer in true Warn winches. IMO, if $$ is the issue I think you're better off buying a good condition used Warn than any other econo winch (new or used).

 

[4X4HIGH]

I do not have a cover and i've never had a problem with my winch not working.

I'm with nvrenuf, if it's not a Warn plan on being stranded. Go Warn or go home.

 

[combatmatt]

Good to know.

What about keeping a cover over the winch? Does a Warn really need a cover? Is everything sealed up well enough so that it would be okay without one?

I would go with yes. Reason being is that even though a Warn is sealed up nice and tight theres still the one made at 4:30 on a friday. And if your gonna drop the coin for one, whats a couple more bucks to protect it a little more. Im all about the recovery gear though, its the nicest stuff in and on my truck.

 

[andyblack]

I've about made up my mind that a Warn is what I need.

Friday afternoon I decided to take the cover off my Superwinch and make sure 12 volts was getting to the solenoids (or are they relays? I don't remember). I could hit the in or out button and I could see the relay cases jumping and hear some clicking, so I'm pretty sure they were energizing, but the motor wouldn't engage. I tried two different remote controls - same result. So I went inside (where it was about 30 degrees cooler and way less humid by the way) and got my multimeter. Now this is where it gets strange. There was a jumper bar between the two relays with the + (red) cable attached to it. I can't remember if it was the + cable that came from the battery, but I think it may have been the other one. I put one multimeter lead on it and the other one on the - (black) cable on the other side of the first relay. As soon as I hit the remote control button, the thing went to working and worked every time I hit the button in either direction! I mean I didn't even have to check for 12 volts. It just fixed itself. I tightened up all the connections (none of which were loose really) and put the cover back on. The winch kept working.

I think I'll still get a Warn though. What if the Superwinch decides to act up when I really need it and don't have a meter or test light with me to scare it into working? I need something I can count on.

 

[v30mongo]

Bottom line: You all are playing with tinker-toy junk. Any electric winch is a joke. If you want to be "for-real" get a PTO drive winch ,mechanical or hydraulic. It will work every time, amd don't listen to the guy who says it important to have a winch that works without the engine running. He ain't gonna charge his battery without the engine or an external generator.

 

[andyblack]

PTO winches are awesome, but what if my transmission doesn't have a PTO port?

 

[Stomis]

Bottom line: You all are playing with tinker-toy junk. Any electric winch is a joke. If you want to be "for-real" get a PTO drive winch ,mechanical or hydraulic. It will work every time, amd don't listen to the guy who says it important to have a winch that works without the engine running. He ain't gonna charge his battery without the engine or an external generator.

ehhhhh I wouldnt say that. Are PTO winches far stronger, resilient, and superior? Yes. But electric gives you compactness, lightweight, and less hassle. Plus yes a properly setup rig with a good electrical system can winch its self out of a jam without the engine running. Full blown sunk mud not but certain situations yes.

 

[v30mongo]

Milemarker makes a power steering pump driven winch. The two speed reversable is the best they offer. Also Warn is making hydraulic winches. Just a note: All military H1"s with winches were warn electric. After it was found that they could not stand up to the use that the GI's gave them the goverment switched to Milemarker Hydraulic. I am not a salesman for Milemarker, I just have to ask why? And if you beleave it is because of a "low bid" and the electric winches were superior, it is one more little reason it is all a lost cause and we should get all our boys home.

 

[Stomis]

Milemarker makes a power steering pump driven winch. The two speed reversable is the best they offer. Also Warn is making hydraulic winches. Just a note: All military H1"s with winches were warn electric. After it was found that they could not stand up to the use that the GI's gave them the goverment switched to Milemarker Hydraulic. I am not a salesman for Milemarker, I just have to ask why? And if you beleave it is because of a "low bid" and the electric winches were superior, it is one more little reason it is all a lost cause and we should get all our boys home.

Hey man I'm not Warn only advocate. I run a 12000e Mile Marker and its great.

I'm just saying there are advantages to an electric winch.

 

[andyblack]

If you read the post that I started this thread with, you'll remember that I first decided to get a winch after I got stuck in a water/mud hole. The intake was above the water, so I was able to try to drive out, but eventually the truck stopped running because the exhaust was under water (it sounded like a boat). Hopefully an electric winch would have still been able to pull me out after the engine stalled, as long as I had enough battery. I think the party would have been over for a PTO or hydraulic winch.

I think the reason the military went to the MileMarkers is because they were having overheating issues with the electric Warns during long winch sessions in the hot desert. Don't know for sure.

 

[GreenieK30]

I use Warn 8274s and Warn M15,000s. I look for like new, but used winches on Craigslist at half the price. Make sure your cables and battery can handle the load. Strong mounts are good too, I have just about maxed the 8274 and 15000 out during single line extractions, everyone starts to back away.

A couple years ago we were stuck in the snow, a friend had just put a Harbor freight winch for his Jeep and was all excited because it was such a good deal. He got stuck, hooked up the cable to a tree and the winch worked but couldnt move his CJ5 on 33s.


My first winch was a Ramsey PTO on a Willys Wagon that was great. I could change line speeds with the transmission, but it didn't work with the engine off.