While hydraulic winches are probably better for staying cool and probably more powerful because of being hydraulic if the engine doesn't run your winch DOES NOT work.
CK5
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why Superwinch sucks! (Warn saves the day!)
- Thread starter andyblack
- Start date
While hydraulic winches are probably better for staying cool and probably more powerful because of being hydraulic if the engine doesn't run your winch DOES NOT work.
andyblack
Registered Loser
I've always been impressed with the speed of the 8274 and the power of the M15000. Unfortunately, when Jesse at Blazen Off Road built my front bumper, he asked me specifically if I was going to be running one those two winches because he would have to make the bumper a little different for them. I told him I wasn't going to use either one of them because I couldn't afford them, so he made the bumper with another size top plate (I guess) that wouldn't be able to fit those two. I like the bumper, so I guess I won't be able to use them. If I can find one to test fit and it will fit, I may look for a used one.
cegusman
3/4 ton status
Your bumper can be easily modified to fit one of those winches
andyblack
Registered Loser
I've never looked at one of those really close. Do they have a different mounting bolt pattern other than the normal 6.5" x 10"? What is the major difference?
cegusman
3/4 ton status
They mount on the face of the winch not the feet.
I hesitate to jump into this because its been done so many times, but what the hell.
A real hydraulic winch, run off a dedicated pump is a sight to see. However, one running off a stock power steering up is an exercise in futility. The stock pump on a K5 is marginal for tires over 35". Now throw in use as the power source for a winch, and you are going to be disappointed in both the speed and power. Same goes for similar vintage Ford, Dodge, Jeep, and Toyotas. The MM/PS pump set up sucks, BTDT.
On to electric winches. The biggest thing to remember is you need a solid charging system. It doesn't matter what brand you buy, if you are running a 60A alt, it's not going to get the job done for long. Make sure all your wiring is up to the task and get the biggest battery you can fit (I've got one from an industrial app).
As far as brands, I won't say Warn is the only thing worth running, but I'd rather have a used Warn than a new Chicago Electric. Generally, any "real" brand should be able to get the job done. If all you are having problems with are the the solenoids (& that is what it sounds like) buying a Warn will NOT fix that. You might be a little better off with one of the "i" models, but for the most part the solenoids are just under a plastic cover. Run the the thing a on a regular basis, even if its just a few feet. Even spray a little WD-40 in there on occasion.
Last thing is styles. Personally, I prefer the 8274. It draws a lot of current, but it is fast when loaded & extremely fast unloaded. I like a fast winch, it cuts down on shock loads and bird caged line. However, some people think fast=dangerous. If you want slow, you cant beat the old Ramsey worm drive winches. And a little bonus, due to the way a worm gear works, they don't even need a brake. But most people use a planetary gear set up. It is the best value and the easiest to package. Especially if you get one with integrated solenoids.
For me I've been very pleased with my Warns. I have an 8274-50 and an XD9000. If I need another winch I will buy a Warn again. If I can't afford a new one I'll wait it out until I can find what I want on the used market.
A real hydraulic winch, run off a dedicated pump is a sight to see. However, one running off a stock power steering up is an exercise in futility. The stock pump on a K5 is marginal for tires over 35". Now throw in use as the power source for a winch, and you are going to be disappointed in both the speed and power. Same goes for similar vintage Ford, Dodge, Jeep, and Toyotas. The MM/PS pump set up sucks, BTDT.
On to electric winches. The biggest thing to remember is you need a solid charging system. It doesn't matter what brand you buy, if you are running a 60A alt, it's not going to get the job done for long. Make sure all your wiring is up to the task and get the biggest battery you can fit (I've got one from an industrial app).
As far as brands, I won't say Warn is the only thing worth running, but I'd rather have a used Warn than a new Chicago Electric. Generally, any "real" brand should be able to get the job done. If all you are having problems with are the the solenoids (& that is what it sounds like) buying a Warn will NOT fix that. You might be a little better off with one of the "i" models, but for the most part the solenoids are just under a plastic cover. Run the the thing a on a regular basis, even if its just a few feet. Even spray a little WD-40 in there on occasion.
Last thing is styles. Personally, I prefer the 8274. It draws a lot of current, but it is fast when loaded & extremely fast unloaded. I like a fast winch, it cuts down on shock loads and bird caged line. However, some people think fast=dangerous. If you want slow, you cant beat the old Ramsey worm drive winches. And a little bonus, due to the way a worm gear works, they don't even need a brake. But most people use a planetary gear set up. It is the best value and the easiest to package. Especially if you get one with integrated solenoids.
For me I've been very pleased with my Warns. I have an 8274-50 and an XD9000. If I need another winch I will buy a Warn again. If I can't afford a new one I'll wait it out until I can find what I want on the used market.
andyblack
Registered Loser
Thanks for the info. Where are you talking about spraying WD-40?
On the solenoids.
andyblack
Registered Loser
Back in Action
The (Not So)Superwinch is back in action...for now.
I was all ready to buy a new Warn, but I decided to take the Superwinch apart all the way and look at it closely. I took a good look at the solenoids and determined that 12 V was getting through them like it was supposed to. I also noticed that after a few clicks on the remote control, the motor housing and battery cables were really hot - hotter than they would be if I had been using the winch under a load. I figured the motor was trying to turn but was locked up. So I took the motor housing loose and removed the motor. Low and behold, I found that everything inside of the housing was corroded quite severly. Apparently the housing wasn't sealed up good at the factory. The o-rings were in place and there was some white lithium type grease around them, but not much at all. Keep in mind that this winch has only been rained on twice since I got it last December. I've had either a trash bag or a Superwinch brand cover over it since it was about a month old.
I took the armature out and assessed the damage. Everything looked rusty, but I sprayed some WD-40 all around in there to get the moisture out of there and wire brushed everything I could get to. I thought about taking a Scotch Brite pad to the part of the armature that contacts the brushes, but I didn't want to risk taking off too much metal and the brushes not making contact. I got some clean motor oil and wiped down the outside of it. The bearings and the outside part of the shaft that engages the spool were in almost perfect condition, surprisingly. I guess it's becuase they're plated.
I thought to take some pictures of the corrosion after I had done a good bit of wire brushing.
The copper is supposed to be shiny by the way.
After I had everything about as good as I could, I put a bunch of blue high temp grease all over the o-rings and all around the mating surfaces of the two covers. Then I put them back on and ran a bead of RTV around the seams. I wish I had used RTV to make a gasket like you do when you put a water pump or diff cover on. I may go back and do that. After it was back together, the winch worked as good as new. I'm sure this was the problem with the first winch too. I know it's really humid where I live, but I can't see how that much moisture could get into something like that unless it wasn't sealed properly to begin with. I noticed that Superwinch has changed the design of that winch now and put the solenoid housing off to the left now. I wonder if they're sealing them up better now too.
The (Not So)Superwinch is back in action...for now.
I was all ready to buy a new Warn, but I decided to take the Superwinch apart all the way and look at it closely. I took a good look at the solenoids and determined that 12 V was getting through them like it was supposed to. I also noticed that after a few clicks on the remote control, the motor housing and battery cables were really hot - hotter than they would be if I had been using the winch under a load. I figured the motor was trying to turn but was locked up. So I took the motor housing loose and removed the motor. Low and behold, I found that everything inside of the housing was corroded quite severly. Apparently the housing wasn't sealed up good at the factory. The o-rings were in place and there was some white lithium type grease around them, but not much at all. Keep in mind that this winch has only been rained on twice since I got it last December. I've had either a trash bag or a Superwinch brand cover over it since it was about a month old.
I took the armature out and assessed the damage. Everything looked rusty, but I sprayed some WD-40 all around in there to get the moisture out of there and wire brushed everything I could get to. I thought about taking a Scotch Brite pad to the part of the armature that contacts the brushes, but I didn't want to risk taking off too much metal and the brushes not making contact. I got some clean motor oil and wiped down the outside of it. The bearings and the outside part of the shaft that engages the spool were in almost perfect condition, surprisingly. I guess it's becuase they're plated.
I thought to take some pictures of the corrosion after I had done a good bit of wire brushing.
The copper is supposed to be shiny by the way.
After I had everything about as good as I could, I put a bunch of blue high temp grease all over the o-rings and all around the mating surfaces of the two covers. Then I put them back on and ran a bead of RTV around the seams. I wish I had used RTV to make a gasket like you do when you put a water pump or diff cover on. I may go back and do that. After it was back together, the winch worked as good as new. I'm sure this was the problem with the first winch too. I know it's really humid where I live, but I can't see how that much moisture could get into something like that unless it wasn't sealed properly to begin with. I noticed that Superwinch has changed the design of that winch now and put the solenoid housing off to the left now. I wonder if they're sealing them up better now too.
andyblack
Registered Loser
I thought of something else since then. I wonder if it would be better to drill a drain hole in the bottom of the motor housing to let the moisture drain than to try to seal up the housing so no moisture could get in. What do yall think about that? Obviously a lot of moisture is accumulating inside the housing, and there's really no way for it to get back out unless I take the cover off and let it dry ever so often. That seems like it would be a pain. Are all winches this problematic? I thought they were mostly trouble-free devices.
GsxrMike
1/2 ton status
My warn has a small drain passage on it to let out moisture.
andyblack
Registered Loser
This must be the key. I didn't see anything like that on this Superwinch. I think I'll drill a little hole in the bottom of the housing this weekend. Thanks Mike.
andyblack
Registered Loser
So it's been about a month since I took the old Suckywinch apart, cleaned up the corrosion and put it back together. Yesterday I took advantage of the (finally) cooler weather and took the cover off the motor to inspect it. Much to my dismay, there was already a good bit of moisture inside the housing, presumably from the effects of all the heating up and cooling off that happens to the winch while it's sitting out side in the sun. I'm sure it would have only been a matter of time until the motor locked up again. I did what I said I was going to last month and drilled a 3/16" hole in the bottom of the case to hopefully let moisture drain out so that no more rust will occur inside there. Let me tell you, that is some thick, tough metal that the winch motor housing is made from. It took a while to drill the hole. Drained the battery in my DeWalt.
Hopefully now there will be no more issues with corrosion inside the motor housing. If this doesn't work and the piece of crap quits on me one more time, it's bye bye Superwinch! I've been testing it about once a week just to make sure it's going to work when I need it to. I decided to leave the cover off since it looks so bad now that it's all faded. Plus it wasn't doing any good. I did put some black paint on all the screw and bolt heads so maybe they won't rust. I post any more problems I may have so everyone can learn from my mistakes and hopefully no one will follow me down this road of Superfrustration.
Hopefully now there will be no more issues with corrosion inside the motor housing. If this doesn't work and the piece of crap quits on me one more time, it's bye bye Superwinch! I've been testing it about once a week just to make sure it's going to work when I need it to. I decided to leave the cover off since it looks so bad now that it's all faded. Plus it wasn't doing any good. I did put some black paint on all the screw and bolt heads so maybe they won't rust. I post any more problems I may have so everyone can learn from my mistakes and hopefully no one will follow me down this road of Superfrustration.
All the talk of Warns, Superwinchs, etc. and not one response about Ramseys?
Anyone experience the Ramsey winches?
Warn and Ramsey are the two longest running names in winch history I know of.
Anyone experience the Ramsey winches?
Warn and Ramsey are the two longest running names in winch history I know of.
andyblack
Registered Loser
I don't see any of those old worm gear winches around anymore. I don't even know if they make them like that anymore. They're probably suffering from the same QC issues as all the others that have their junk built in those same Chinese factories.
Oh, they are still around. There are not as many as there used to be, but they are still there and working.
As for old time winch names, K30, a lot of them are gone, but not all.
Pierce is still making them.
http://www.piercesales.com/Items.aspx?code=WINCH&key=cat
Desert Dynamics is gone. I have two of theirs, and they still work well. Actually I think the company is back, but they don't build winches anymore.
Braden, like the 12,000 lb one I have on my truck is another old timer that is still around.
http://www.paccarwinch.com/braden/products/recovery.aspx
But, they only make PTOs.
I think the granddaddy of them all, was Koenig. Started in 1911.
I have one on my Jeep. They were the standard for Jeeps and Land Rovers for years.
Koenig Iron Works, out in Texas, is no longer around, but the winches are still available, as are parts.
http://www.koenigwinches.dk/koenigwinches-in-english.html
Garwood was another name. They made them for the military trucks.
I found on Ramseys site they still make all their old winches. http://www.ramsey.com/winches/index.html#automotive
Scroll down to see the old worm type winches.
andyblack
Registered Loser
Thanks Fordum and K30guy. You both have a wealth of knowledge. 
Fordum, don't you have an entertaining old story to tell about any of those old winches?
Fordum, don't you have an entertaining old story to tell about any of those old winches?
v30mongo
Registered Member
industrial or recreational
About winches, I see that the major companys have two or three divisions. Recreational, commercial, and industrial. There must be a diffrence. Also are winches like Superwinch rated for SAE J706? Just about all the industrial winches are. Just a thought.
About winches, I see that the major companys have two or three divisions. Recreational, commercial, and industrial. There must be a diffrence. Also are winches like Superwinch rated for SAE J706? Just about all the industrial winches are. Just a thought.
