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Won't start after a winter's worth or repairs: Eye candy while I wait for parts

MassMan

MassMan

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Well, spring's finally here, and i managed to finish off the Goodwrench crate 350 in my 85 K5 last week, so i figured it was time to start her up. Over the winter i did the following:

-new headgaskets, intake gaskets, etc
-new plugs, wires, distributor (HEI)
-exhaust was fixed (idiot PO welded the pipes to the headers)
-new belts, fluids, filters, and such
-new valve cover pressure plates and studs/retainers
-wiring straightened out, all remnants from A/C taped off and bundled
-new ground strap for engine, new horn, new controller for electric fans

yesterday i filled up the tank, double checked the connections and battery voltage (14.3v) and cranked her. the starter was extremely sluggish and slowed down rapidly. the seat belt light on the dash dimmed to almost black, the volt meter dropped, and i gave up quickly. checking the voltage, it had dropped to 11.3v. gas was in the filter (clear), and everything seemed fine. i tried it again jumper-cabled to my dad's running truck, and except for a stronger sounding starter, nothing changed. I hooked up a timing light, and there's spark to every cylinder.

checking out the starter wires, the ignition "S" wire looked bare near the starter's terminal, so i decided to pull the starter. the wire had a good 3-4" bare on the starter end, and all the wires looked corroded. i cleaned all the terminals, cut off the bad end of the "S" wire and put a new connector on it. replacing the starter, i tried it again while connected to the running truck. except for a stronger-sounding starter sound, nothing.

after noticing that the oil pressure was shooting up quickly (to about 45psi or so) while cranking, i wanted to make sure there wasn't a problem with the oil getting where it needed to go (wrong head gaskets blocking the passages? i dunno...) i pulled the valve covers and distributor, and turned the oil pump with the old dist's shaft. oil was slowly oozing over the rockers from the studs. is this right? i have no experience with engines, so i'm just assuming that's correct. also, when i stopped turning the oil pump, i heard a small whine/squeal like pressure was being let off.

so, my question is, what did i screw up? the thing ran fine (except for the blown head gasket) until i tore the heads off. i disengaged the shifter linkage and manually turned the transmission to park a while ago, and checked that as well, just to make sure i wasn't adding any extra load there. it's as if the starter's turning a load far to much for it. i just know there's some small thing i'm missing, i just don't know what. :confused:
 
i know if the timing is off, it wold affect the starter/starting of the truck. (actually make it sound like an almost dead battery) but your timing would have to be way off.
 
i set up the distributor according to the "How to Rebuild Your Small Block Chevy" book. TDC, rotor at 1, vacuum advance 45* across engine. maybe i'll redo that, especially after pulling the dist to run the oil pump.
 
If you look down the carb while you open the throttle do you get a spray of fuel from the accelerator pump nozzles? You have fuel at the filter, but the carb may still be somewhat dry.

For stabbing the distributor, it's not enough for #1 to be at TDC...it has to be at TDC on the compression stroke. It's exceptionally easy to be 180 degrees out on the dist. This has the #1 plug firing on the exhaust stroke. :doah:

I like to have a valve cover off and watch the valves open and close while rotating the engine the correct direction. To be on the correct stroke you should see the intake close about 90 degrees before TDC, and at TDC both the intake and exhaust will be completely closed. Both will stay closed approx 90 degrees past TDC, then the exhaust should open.

Rene
 
Did you check the timing while turning it over? Setting the distributer in that way is a great baseline but usually ends up needing to be adjusted.
 
looks like i have to re-do the timing and play with the timing light while starting it. gas squirts down the carb just fine, so that isn't the issue. i'll play with it tomorrow afternoon. thanks for the help everyone, i still haven't figured out how this timing stuff works yet.

by the way, which valve is the exhaust and which is the intake for cylinder 1 when i'm trying to get TDC?
 
take the #1 plug output your finger over the hole and bump it tillyou have compression, then turn the motor with a wrench to tdc and then check your dist, might be a matter of turning the dist while cranking
 
i think the first rocker is exhaust, second is intake, third is intake, fourth is exhaust, fifth is exhaust, sixth is intake, 7th is intake, 8th is exhaust. (make sense???)
 
thanks, that clears things up. should be easy enough. i guess i didn't understand all this before i set the timing the first time.
 
Look at your exhaust manifold and you'll see the first exhaust port is at the front of the head. SBC's are EI IE EI IE

The combustion sequence is as follows.

Intake stroke, piston heading down. Intake valve is open (ex is closed)and as the piston heads down it draws in the intake charge of fuel and air.

Compression stroke, Intake valve closes (ex is still closed)with the piston near the bottom of the stroke. Piston heads back up and with both valves closed the intake charge compresses.

Ignition happens just before the piston hits TDC...this is the TDC that is important when timing an engine or dropping in a distributor.

Power stroke. Again both valves still closed, the mixture gets lit and drives the piston down.

Exhaust stroke. Piston heading up the exhaust valve opens (intake stays closed) and the piston drives the burnt gases out into the manifold.

The short version is "Suck, Squeeze, Bang, Blow"

Rene
 
great description. i'll spend some time playing around watching the valves while i rotate the engine. i just need to connect each stage with what i'm watching when i turn the engine. should be interesting (and messy now that i have oil in the thing...)
 
It shouldn't be messy, turning it over by hand with the valve covers off is the best way...and there isn't any oil pressure to speak of doing that. If you remove the spark plugs it'll be a ton easier to turn over by hand.

Do not use the crank bolt and a ratchet...

Rene
 
you end up rounding off the bolt's head. the PO did that to my truck already, so that isn't even an option any more. i'm using some rubber-coated grippy gardening gloves, they seem to grip the pulley well and i can turn the thing over easily while watching for the timing mark.
 
got it running! took a while to get everything back together, but it was all worth it. i started it a few times, but it's stumbling so bad i can't keep it going without working the throttle. i finally gave up after the battery drained. i'll be back at it soon enough though.

weird thing is, no matter which way i turned the distributor, it ran even rougher than at the initial position i had it at. maybe i just have bad gas or i'm turning it too far, i dunno. any tips on how to set the timing?
 
best way, once you have it running, is to use a timing gun. if you don't have one, i'm sure a friend of yours, or their father, has one.

was it running long enough to warm up to operating temp? i had similar issues on initial startup, ended up being a bad choke.
 
i only ran it for 15 or 20 seconds at a time, three times total. it was barely stumbling along enough to keep going while i was adding gas, and it died once i stopped. it ran so rough i didn't want to run it any longer than i did. it never even got warm. my choke's electric, and i was wondering if i should open it up when i set the timing. i have a light, but i'll definitely need a friend in the driver's seat keeping her going until she can idle. maybe this weekend i'll get some friends over to help.
 
i have a light, but i'll definitely need a friend in the driver's seat keeping her going until she can idle. maybe this weekend i'll get some friends over to help.
Click to expand...

Ah yes. Tough to do with out a buddy there. You can just have him turn it over while you watch the timing light on the timing mark. that will tell you really really close to what going on. Probably want it in about the 6* advance range to begin with. Might want more then that but 6* is a safe start.
 
well, i tried to set the timing with a friend today. he doesn't know how to use a timing light, so i had him on the gas trying to keep the thing running. at the lowest RPM we could keep it running at it was 20* advance TDC. turning the distributor clockwise to retard the timing, the engine died and wouldn't start again. i barely nudged the distributor, so i brought it back to the 45* across the engine starting position, and the truck started again. turning it counter clockwise this time, it also died. at the initial position, the engine runs extremely rough and belches black smoke that smells of unburnt gas, and will die without someone holding their foot on the gas. large volumes of vapor come out of the carb and tail pipes when it is shut off. also, there is an awful sound coming from the engine when is running or being cranked. it's a cross between a chirp and a squeal, and happenes in time with the flashes from the timing light. The sound is much louder than the engine when running.

i'm scared that the noise is something major failing. could it be related to the starting issue? would a carb that dumps too much fuel be causing the problems? the truck ran very rich before i tore it down, and it also had some plug wires switched. i'm afraid that maybe the PO had compensated for this problem by tweaking all of this. i'm getting really sick of spending hours getting nowhere on this truck. if i can't get it by next week i'm towing it to a shop to have fixed. even if that would use up all my rust repair money, i need this to run before i can fix it up further.
 
well, it is running, so you can fix it up further!! (it's just not running well)

black smoke means rich carb, too much fuel. what carb are you running?? maybe stuck choke dumping too much fuel.

20* advanced tdc is way to much, (unless it's total timing, then it's too little, but i assume you mean initial timing) these trucks came from the factory with only 6-8* advance, and can be run at a higher initial timing (10-16*) with no problems, maybe even increased performance. the noise you are hearing may be pinging from the engine (too far advanced).

make sure you have a fully charged battery in your truck, take the power wire out of the distributor (so the truck won't start) and have a friend crank the engine while you hold the timing light on the balancer, should give you a rough idea where you really are, and adjust the distributor till timing is at 6* or so. any 305/350 will run at 6*.

what did you do with the valves? i see you put new studs in, did you adjust the rockers after?
 
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