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yukon axles on a 10bolt

I agree with the fact that a dana 60 is strong as hell,

King pins over ball joints any day for strength and lifespan,

I plan on using some sort of 1/2 ton front end in my chevy SAS (1500 z71), because I dont need 42" tires, and the 10 bolt housing has a smaller overall profile.

Problems i see with a dana 60: for SAS; you need lots of lift to fit it, its very large, and super heavy compared to a 10 bolt, Unsprung weight is tremendously increased, more breaking force required to stop, more power needed to move, and stronger suspension parts need to control the axle.

so if he can get away with his 10 bolt axle, then good for him, I plan to try and do the same thing but with a 35" tire


No ones questioning the application for a Dana 60
 
RIPPEDK5 said:
I agree with the fact that a dana 60 is strong as hell,

King pins over ball joints any day for strength and lifespan,

I plan on using some sort of 1/2 ton front end in my chevy SAS (1500 z71), because I dont need 42" tires, and the 10 bolt housing has a smaller overall profile.

Problems i see with a dana 60: for SAS; you need lots of lift to fit it, its very large, and super heavy compared to a 10 bolt, Unsprung weight is tremendously increased, more breaking force required to stop, more power needed to move, and stronger suspension parts need to control the axle.

so if he can get away with his 10 bolt axle, then good for him, I plan to try and do the same thing but with a 35" tire


No ones questioning the application for a Dana 60
Click to expand...

Right. All your points are correct. The dana 60 is a beast, although comparatively so is the dana 44/10 bolt versus say a toyota axle that has nearly the same strength. Not that I want to get into that argument...

That being said 35s are more than suitable with a dana 44/10bolt, especially with full circle clips or aftermarket shafts but theres no amount of reasoning in the world to ever make a 10 bolt a suitable axle for 39.5 swampers and a hot BBC.

I dont care about circumstances or what kind of wheel someone does. You could wheel through marshmellows and gum drops with an 8hp briggs and stratton and a 10bolt isnt enough axle for 39.5s...
 
I would agree and say that a 38" tire and being gingerly with it, is the max.

you are right, you really arent going to have any kind of lifespan with a 40" tire and some serious torque/ horsepower, and including weight and abuse.. that 10 bolt is crying just under light abuse.

Hate to say it, all these guys are right. i guess if you were grandpa moses, going less then speed limits, no jack rabbit starts, and just kinda puttered around with a tired 350 then you might be able to do it... but with a hot headed BBC, big tires, and and a twitchy right foot...your lighting your own match with dynamite in your pocket.

eventually your gunna need to swap axles, or just keep praying your setup holds.. Hate to see ya get hurt when a ball joint seperates driving down the road
 
I only say that because I had a ball joint break on my dodge; and it wasnt fun, luckily no one get hurt,

and I only had 285/65/17 in tires, my springs were had too much spring rate and the ball joints took all the road rash and not the springs/ shocks.. so i know what its like



--ok so i dont hyjack his thread, at least he upgraded some parts, There are alot of jeeps around here (mainly cherokees --this is no offense to jeepers) that run big big tires on dana 30/35's and some how they survive (must replace alot of parts all the time )

but my point is alot of people just dont swap axles; be it money restraints, dont care too, or its just too muc


I know a guy that took 2 chevy 3/4 ton trucks (one has a 6BT cummins diesel in it) and swapped them to 1/2 ton (you read that right)-ones running stock tires and the other 35's

So it can be done. should it (probably not)
 
RIPPEDK5 said:
Problems i see with a dana 60: for SAS; you need lots of lift to fit it, its very large, and super heavy compared to a 10 bolt, Unsprung weight is tremendously increased, more breaking force required to stop, more power needed to move, and stronger suspension parts need to control the axle.
Click to expand...

I think you are kind of exaggerating those points a little. Explain why you need lots of lift to fit a D60 front axle??? The last time I checked they came from the factory in trucks with no lift kits??? Also never heard of any problems with the suspension when swapping in a D60. Overall it's not THAT much heavier than a 10-bolt in the grand scheme of things. Are you sure you are not thinking of a 2.5 ton Rockwell axle....seriously, these are all common points brought up when talking about 'rocks.
 
I noted that a Dana 60 requires significant lift in a "Sold Axle Swap" or "SAS" some needing 9"-10" of lift to clear oil pans.

A 10 bolt is significantly lighter then a Dana 60 ..I can carry a 10 bolt with moderate effort.. I cant pick a Dana 60 up with less then 3 guys (normal guys)

I urge you to weigh the two and compare.

as far as suspension needed.. a heavier axle has more inertia when its moving; heavier weight and mass equals more inertia and more energy required to stop and move.. Its just science.

example: a 2 leaf stock spring of a 1500 can not control the same as a 2 leaf 1-ton in a 3500. common sense science

Also, you are not going to use a link that is thin and uses small link on a Dana 60 thats meant to be used on a smaller axle such as a 10 bolt..
another example a stock jeep link setup might hold a dana 30 but use the same links and swap in a Dana 60; that jeep will be in pieces real quick,

you dont use a 1/2" bolt where a 1" inch bolt is required do you?
 
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RIPPEDK5 said:
I noted that a Dana 60 requires significant lift in a "Sold Axle Swap" or "SAS" some needing 9"-10" of lift to clear oil pans.

A 10 bolt is significantly lighter then a Dana 60 ..I can carry a 10 bolt with moderate effort.. I cant pick a Dana 60 up with less then 3 guys (normal guys)

I urge you to weigh the two and compare.

as far as suspension needed.. a heavier axle has more inertia when its moving; heavier weight and mass equals more inertia and more energy required to stop and move.. Its just science.

example: a 2 leaf stock spring of a 1500 can not control the same as a 2 leaf 1-ton in a 3500. common sense science

Also, you are not going to use a link that is thin and uses small link on a Dana 60 thats meant to be used on a smaller axle such as a 10 bolt..
another example a stock jeep link setup might hold a dana 30 but use the same links and swap in a Dana 60; that jeep will be in pieces real quick,

you dont use a 1/2" bolt where a 1" inch bolt is required do you?
Click to expand...

A d60 with steering weighs about 500lbs. Me and Issam got it into the back of my blazer and i got it out by myself. As well as got it under my truck by myself. Not sure on a 44/10b but i bet it is around 300lbs.

The d60 also has bigger brakes to go with its bigger mass, so i dont belive that is an issue. My suspension performed the exact same with a d60 as it did with a d44.
 
it is a physics impossibility that a "300" pound object to act exactly the same as a "500" pound object..its absolutely physically impossible


ie: a guys weights 300 pounds and another guy weighs 500 pound.. running at the same speed whos going to want to keep going forward? drop them both off a building; who makes more of an impact?

you have 300 pounds traveling upward at a designated speed, and then you have 500 pounds at that same speed (both with the same resistance aka the spring)...the "resistance" will have to work harder to bring the heavier weight under control

Didnt anyone pay attention in science class and math?

and i think your numbers are a little off...were talking a a king pin dana 60.. I would like to see you moving the axle yourself (picking it up and not using the ground as a pivot and not jacks or lifts)
 
RIPPEDK5 said:
it is a physics impossibility that a "300" pound object to act exactly the same as a "500" pound object..its absolutely physically impossible


ie: a guys weights 300 pounds and another guy weighs 500 pound.. running at the same speed whos going to want to keep going forward? drop them both off a building; who makes more of an impact?

you have 300 pounds traveling upward at a designated speed, and then you have 500 pounds at that same speed (both with the same resistance aka the spring)...the "resistance" will have to work harder to bring the heavier weight under control

Didnt anyone pay attention in science class and math?

and i think your numbers are a little off...were talking a a king pin dana 60.. I would like to see you moving the axle yourself (picking it up and not using the ground as a pivot and not jacks or lifts)
Click to expand...

My numbers are not off. Here is some backup. 200lbs isnt shiz on a 6000lb truck, that is my point. Sure on paper it does, but not in the real world.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/60_front/

Specs:

The following info is true of all front Dana 60s covered by this article.

Max load (SRW): 4500lbs,
Max torque short duration: 5550 Lbs.Ft. Continuous: 1500 Lbs.Ft. - these figures unconfirmed
Axle tube dia. 3.125", wall thickness 0.5"
Weight center section = 120lbs.

Weight, fully dressed single wheel front Chevy 60 complete, locking hub to hub 518lbs

Weight, fully dressed single wheel front Ford RC 60 complete, locking hub to hub 460-480lbs
Click to expand...

I never said i was picking it up and walking around with it. I unloaded it out of my truck and into the garage, then out of the garage and under my truck.
 
you said "you" took it out of the truck.. meaning you physically took it out..am I wrong to assume that statement meant you lifted it out and or carried it?

i want to see pics of "2" normal guys carrying a dual wheel dana 60 front--little more then 518 pounds

well I hate to burst your bubble but physicas and gravity are real world.. measure the force applied to the spring with the different axles, ill bet there different, regardless of if you can feel it in your truck but its happening

Bill Nye the science guy told me all these facts

so you mean to tell me that your not benching 500 pounds like Arnold Schwarzenegger or Branch Warren? i thought you were jacked like that and a Dana 60 is the starting object for squats lol
 
You cant question Bill Nye.....


you dont question chuck norris do you? its just the way it is... You dont know what chuck norris would do, but you know if he twitches- Godzilla takes down another Japanese city

Just like you dont question Bob Saggot, if things are funny or not..your pain is my laughter

you just dont question the law of the land
 
RIPPEDK5 said:
I noted that a Dana 60 requires significant lift in a "Sold Axle Swap" or "SAS" some needing 9"-10" of lift to clear oil pans.

A 10 bolt is significantly lighter then a Dana 60 ..I can carry a 10 bolt with moderate effort.. I cant pick a Dana 60 up with less then 3 guys (normal guys)

I urge you to weigh the two and compare.

as far as suspension needed.. a heavier axle has more inertia when its moving; heavier weight and mass equals more inertia and more energy required to stop and move.. Its just science.

example: a 2 leaf stock spring of a 1500 can not control the same as a 2 leaf 1-ton in a 3500. common sense science

Also, you are not going to use a link that is thin and uses small link on a Dana 60 thats meant to be used on a smaller axle such as a 10 bolt..
another example a stock jeep link setup might hold a dana 30 but use the same links and swap in a Dana 60; that jeep will be in pieces real quick,

you dont use a 1/2" bolt where a 1" inch bolt is required do you?
Click to expand...

After reading all of your other replies I'm not really sure if you are serious, joking, or drunk..........

The lift required to fit a D60 is a moot point even if talking about an SAS. The original post is comparing a D60 to a 10-bolt in a truck that came equipped with a solid front axle, and regardless whether you are talking about SAS in a newer truck or not there is not any significant difference in the lift required to clear a D60 or 10-bolt.

As far as the weight difference in stopping, as already mentioned an additional 200 lbs. in a 6,000 lb. truck isn't going to make a difference noticable by the good ol' butt-dyno while stopping. That's like saying you don't want your buddy riding shotgun in the truck because it now won't stop very well. Now if all of that 200 lbs. was rolling mass (like the tires weighed that much more) it would make a difference, but it's not. In 2wd with the hubs unlocked the D60 only has a small amount of additional rolling mass over a 10-bolt, but also as already mentioned it has bigger brakes.

I've still never heard anybody talk about swapping from a 10-bolt to a D60 and having to do add-a-leafs, extra shocks, or anything like that to make the truck driveable. You have sprung and un-sprung mass. Sprung mass is everything above the springs (frame, body, drivetrain) with unsprung being the axles and tires/wheels. Swapping axles does not change the sprung mass any so if would not affect the suspension on that side. You are increasing the unsprung mass but overall it's a fairly small amount. The whole argument about the links with a D30 versus a D60 only makes since if the suspension is already right on the borderline with the D30 to begin with. Hitting a pothole while driving down the freeway does not have a substantial difference in forces regardless of the axle you have.

And to end things, if you want to start quoting "science" you really need to have a better understanding of it!
 
I know lots of people running big blocks up at the dunes with big tires and ten bolts with no problems. Rock crawling and trails, sure. But swapping in 1 ton axles are a rare bird in the sand really. Not saying it doesnt happen but its very uncommon. More weight is bad and a d60 may only way a few hundred more, but if you have a 60 your gonna have a 14bff most likely and thats another couple hundred lbs. Sand is forgiving. But i dont think you can say you need a 60 over a ten bolt on any terrain with big tires and power. He says he lives in very flat terrain so im sure thats why its lasted so long. Hes not giving bad info by saying his ten bolt is plenty strong, he is stating that for what he does with his rig, its worked very well, and in most cases prolly spent less time and money on his ten bolt than on a 60. Unless everyone here can magically find good to go d60s for cheap. But ive never seen one for under $1000 around here, and they may be worn out anyways.
 
Apparently your not looking at opposing forces from under a spring.

I do understand science. if unsprung weight/ mass didnt matter there would be "unsprung" weight at all

and weight plays a factor in everything, why do you think racers strive to take every pound out of there race cars, truckes etc. if the 50 pounds didnt matter they wouldnt look to remove it.

mass moment of inertia:is a measure of an object's resistance to any change in its state of motion

so with what you said, that a tractor trailer would not have any more crash inertia then a F350 pickup?

whether you feel it in your "butt" is separate from what actually happens under the truck...

just because you never hear about it, doesnt mean its not out there. fact is, a 1/2 ton suspension and frame work, was never intended on any vehicle to support or control anything meant for a 1 ton. if that were the case then they would use the same frames and axles/ suspension and not have to engineer for a 1 ton design.

Stock jeep links are marginal at best for factory application, put a larger axle and more to control under that vehicle, you need stronger suspension application..Its common sense

Why do you get death wobble? because something is worn and or can no longer control that application. What takes over.. the death wobble. that is the axle controlling the suspension and steering
 
Good for you if you can make a 10 bolt live in harmony with what you do in your daily living.
 
My half ton 1988 V10 Suburban came with a front ten bolt. I blew out the junk rear ten bolt with a slightly warmed over 350 TBI. I replaced the axles with factory 3/4 ton axles from a 1975 K20. Still has factory half ton springs. Then I blew out the Dana 44 front axle. Replaced it with a Dana 60. Still has factory half ton springs. Have yet to notice any difference between all three setups due to weight.

Martin
 
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