1989 K5 - Gradual Learning

[shima]

On Tuesday, I ran to Harbor Freight and picked up flare nut wrenches. The selection was pretty bad - all I could find was Pittsburgh. They had some other brands available for other styles of wrenches... but for flare nut the pickings were slim. So, with the time constraint I went ahead and picked up this basic five-piece set.

Last night, I got everything done except the brake line work:

• Installed the new springs.
• Greased all of the bolts.
• Cut down the new u-bolts.
• Reattached front axle vent tube, shift linkage, and the exhaust.

I watched a couple of quick YouTube videos and then took a "first attempt" at the driver's side brake line before going to bed. I put flare nut wrenches on both the "inside" nut and the "outside" nut. The outside nut/fitting is pretty thin/shallow... and these flare nut wrenches I bought have a recessed contact surface. Due to that it was hard to get a good grip on the outside nut with the flare nut wrench. I swapped over to a normal open end wrench and was able to put some muscle into it. The nut did not break free. I sprayed some more PB Blaster on it and went to bed.

I am terrified of rounding that outside nut off. In one of the YouTube videos, the guy cut the flexible brake hose so that he could get the loop end of a box wrench around the outside nut. That would be great for me to do but part of me is thinking that I could take this camping trip with my old brake hoses if I absolutely have to. Sure the passenger side brake hose has a cut in it but I don't think it leaks... it's just the outer jacket that is cut. Tonight I am going to try out the passenger side and see how that goes. If it comes off easy then I am going to fully commit to the new brake lines and I'll cut the driver's side if I have to.

I only snapped one picture last night because I was pretty focused on getting as much knocked out as possible. I am officially a fanboy of Diablo hacksaw blades. All of this was done with the same blade that I used to cut through the old spring eye bolt. The reason you see more than eight pieces is because I made a first pass on the driver's side u-bolts and then decided that I should cut a little more off the top. Again it went through like a hot knife through butter. The blade still does not look all that worn out.

 

[shima]

I am watching this YouTube video right now...

I watched it last night, but did not notice that he puts muscle on the inner nut as opposed to the outer nut. I am going to try that out when I go out there tonight after work.

 

[Wes Harden]

Yes Drew the small inner tube nut is the 1 you want to turn.
The bigger nut, part of flexible line should be anchored in a bracket with horse shoe clip.
Sometimes if I can't get a tube nut to brake loose, I try tightening it, if it moves I stop and then am able to loosen the nut much easier.
Regular open end wrench is the right call on the bigger side.
Try to "clock" the wrenches so you can squeeze together with 1 hand. Ie the tube wrench at 10 o'clock and the back up wrench at 9 o'clock, then squeeze together so the tube wrench turns to the 9 o'clock
Good luck

 

[mrk5]

The thing to watch is that the flare nut isn't rusted to the hardline. If it is you twist the hardline and break it.

When I first did brakes on the crew cab I was heading towards rounding the flare nut on one if the front lines. I went and bought the SK wrenches and it had a nice snug fit on the nut and it came apart no problem. If the flare nut wrench isn't a snug fit, you're headed for trouble.

 

[mrk5]

Yes Drew the small inner tube nut is the 1 you want to turn.
The bigger nut, part of flexible line should be anchored in a bracket with horse shoe clip.
Sometimes if I can't get a tube nut to brake loose, I try tightening it, if it moves I stop and then am able to loosen the nut much easier.
Regular open end wrench is the right call on the bigger side.
Try to "clock" the wrenches so you can squeeze together with 1 hand. Ie the tube wrench at 10 o'clock and the back up wrench at 9 o'clock, then squeeze together so the tube wrench turns to the 9 o'clock
Good luck

Yes! That squeeze method works really well for tightening and loosening. But maybe we have oldman grip strength to help that.

 

[Wes Harden]

Good point @mrk5. Drew use a wire tooth brush and clean the tube nuts, and an inch of tube behind the nut. Then a little more pb blaster, tap the flex hose side with a small ball peen, this will help the oil creep and give a little shock to the nuts. Not hard, just a little tap goes along way

 

[ZooMad75]

So the inner nut is the one to worry about rounding off. The outer one is part of the brake hose you are replacing.

The driver side I started messing with on yours was stupid tight. So if you needed to get heavy on the outboard nut on the brake hose you could. I would try to not cut the hose unless it’s a last ditch effort. Reason being once you cut it you are committed. Right now the hose still fits, though might be tight if you had to flex it.

 

[shima]

Thanks guys!!

Just went out there and took another look. I sprayed the nuts again with PB Blaster and tapped a little bit with a hammer. The hard line is protected with a jacket of some sort... sorta looks like a tightly-wound spring. I'll slide that back a little bit when I get after it tonight to try and make sure the line isn't turning.

I am going to go to AutoZone over my lunch break and buy some more DOT 3. I am guessing when it is time to bleed, I should bleed all four wheels/calipers like normal?

 

[mrk5]

As long as the master cylinder keeps plenty of fluid, you can bleed just the line you're working on.

 

[Wes Harden]

Get dot 4. I buy small bottles, I don't want open brake fluid sitting around the shop. Brake fluid collects moisture out the air. You will probably use most of a quart to fill and bleed the whole system.

 

[shima]

Got the passenger side off! I cannot get the C-clip / retaining clip off of these new ORD lines for the life of me...

 

[shima]

Ooops... lol. Might have to re-use the factory clips.

 

[Wes Harden]

One clip is not supposed to come off. Should be a slide on horse shoe clip on the flare nut side of bracket on flex line .

 

[shima]

Thanks @Wes Harden. I thought this C-clip that came on the ORD flex line was a replacement for the horseshoe style clip.

 

[shima]

I'm having trouble seeing how the ORD flex line is able to clear the brake line bracket far enough to get the horseshoe clip back on.

It looks like I may have to use a file to increase the clearance on the bracket for the ORD line to get far enough through.

 

[Wes Harden]

You need to clock it, the opening is not symmetrical

 

[shima]

Unfortunately, I wasn't able to finish up the ORD brake line installation prior to the camping trip...

Here's a quick view of how it went down:

• The driver's side is seized really badly. I decided to try out the passenger side first.
• The passenger side brake line nut broke free and I got the flexible hose removed.
• When installing the new ORD brake line on the passenger side, I ran into an issue that is summarized by this little drawing I did:

• In order to make the ORD line fit inside the brake line bracket, I had to use a file to grind out metal inside the bracket.
• My files are all pretty small so I really had to go to town on it. It took forever but I eventually got the passenger brake line installed.
• Here are photos of the new ORD brake line and of the bracket after I attacked it with the file for a while:

• After getting the passenger side installed, I went back to the driver's side.
• Despite using the flare nut wrench, it felt like I was going to round off the brake line nut... so I decided to hold off on going further and jumped ahead to bleeding the system. My intent was to go to Moab with one new brake line (passenger side) and one old brake line (driver side).
• There was a ton of air in the system. My brake lines were disconnected for a week or longer, but I swear that the master cylinder never went dry...
• I bled for about an hour and went through two full bottles of brake fluid.
• After still getting a ton of air coming out, I gave up and called it a night.

The good news is that my girlfriend's XJ successfully made the trip:



We had a good time camping although it was incredibly hot. The nice thing about being at this campground (Ken's Lake) was that we could swim to stay cool and then could scoot to town and get supplies / have a nice meal / etc. if we wanted to. I am used to doing dispersed camping... this was my first campground experience in a while. Normally I prefer dispersed but with how hot it was I have to say being close to town was really nice.

On one of those town trips I laid eyes on a super clean K20 Suburban:



The plan moving forward is to borrow @ZooMad75's air pump tool that he got from Harbor Freight when bleeding his clutch. That should help me get all of the air out of the system. Also, now that I'm no longer under a time constraint, I am probably going to cut the factory line on the driver's side so that I can get the closed-loop end of a box wrench around the outside nut. Obviously just like the passenger side I will have to use a file on the driver's side to get the new ORD line installed.

I am torn on whether to attempt the installation on the rear brake line at this time. In all honesty I may not have it in me right now. Trying to get everything going prior to the camping trip was a nightmare.

@ZooMad75 I am going to wrench tonight and tomorrow night on it. As always there are cold beers in the fridge with your name on them if you want to come over and laugh at my pain. Otherwise I can swing by and grab the tool whenever you're available.

 

[Wes Harden]

Glad you got 1 done.
Yes even with a flare wrench the tube nut can round off. If you look closely at a flare wrench you will see one side of the open end wraps around more than the other. If I am pulling down on the wrench I try to make sure that long side is on the top. Hard to explain.
On very tight tubing I will break out the flare nut crows feet, crows feet are much beefier and flex less.
Was the camping trip just you and your gal or a group? How about a write up

 

[shima]

Glad you got 1 done.
Yes even with a flare wrench the tube nut can round off. If you look closely at a flare wrench you will see one side of the open end wraps around more than the other. If I am pulling down on the wrench I try to make sure that long side is on the top. Hard to explain.
On very tight tubing I will break out the flare nut crows feet, crows feet are much beefier and flex less.
Was the camping trip just you and your gal or a group? How about a write up

Thanks Wes! Good tip on the flare nut wrench, I absolutely understand what you're saying.

It was just Emily and I. I may come back and do a write up! It was a lot of swimming and some small hikes.

 

[ZooMad75]

No excuse to not come back to Moab for BB. Just saying.

I can bring the tool with me to work if it will save you some time/miles to drive all the way to the burbs to get it. Or just come over tonight to the compound and I can give it to you.