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2 colors of paint out of 1 spray can

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scpaul

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I'm doing some touch up on a '90 Jimmy that has one of the GM 2 color paint jobs. It's silver (Dupli-color BGM0508, the dominant color) and dark gray (Dupli-color BGM0536, the secondary color). I did some edges of the doors where they had rubbed things like brick walls, they wern't bent. The dark gray was a perfect match. The fiberglass top was the same dark gray. It was badly faded on top and some on the sides. The dark gray that's a perfect match on the edge of the metal door is no where near the same color when sprayed on the fiberglass. I lightly sanded the fiberglass before I started spraying. The gelcoat was in good shape just faded. I have put 3 complete coats on the top thinking that maybe the lighter faded areas were causing the difference in color. It didn't change at all. I used a small area and put 3 more coats on it. The color still didn't change. It's somewhat close to a battleship gray with a little more gloss not the dark gray that the color was supposed to be. Remember that the different 2 colors came out of the same can. The same wrong color has now come out of a total of 6 cans.

I have sent Dupli-Color a pic and basically I was told that since the color was right on the metal that it's basically my problem about it being a different on the fiberglass.

I guess that I'm going to sand it, prime it, which it shouldn't have needed since I was putting the supposedly same color on. Someone suggested that there was a chemical reaction between the fiberglass and the paint. The first 3 coats had been on for about 3 days, so I thought that iit should have sealed the fiberglass so the paint couldn't touch it because of the 3 coats that were on it. I sprayed a small area with 3 more coats over the next 2 days. That small area is the same color as the other part of the fiberglass that only has 3 coats.

If there's anyone that can explain what's going on to me I would really appreciate it. With what has happened, I don't know if priming it would help since it had the original 3 coats on it and didn't they didn't make any difference at all.

I have a pic in my sent e-mails, but don't know how to e-mail it to this forum.

Any HELP before I go to a shrink would be greatly appreciated, Paul
 
primer color can make colors change a shade or two for sure . so tray and find a spray out card like the pros use with different colors of white to black and do a stripe of masking tape down the center . then spray on 2-3 coats and let dry . remove tape to show base white to black scale and compare next to what your trying to paint.

and store purchased spray paint I think sucks for the most part as it comes out way to thin .
 
Thanks K30 for the response,

I understand what you're talking about the different primers and the spray out panels. I've seen some of that stuff on some of the custom car build shows. One problem that I have right off the bat is that I can't get the same material spray out board as the top on the truck. I guess that I could use different areas of the fiberglass top on the truck, unless you have another suggestion. I really don't want it to look like a patchwork quilt, Grandmom might like it. I'm wishing now that I'd have left it the faded, flat gray color like it was, but I had no way to know what I was getting into. If I use small areas of the top as spray out boards, how much trouble am I going to have covering the test areas when/if I find a way to match the color?

I guess that if I can't match it, I could take the top to a boat shop/custom fiberglass shop that re-gelcoats and see if they can suggest/do anything. I can only guess how much it costs to re-gelcoat something like that.

I agree about the quality of the spray paints on the market. I will say this about the cans of "Dura-Coat Perfect Match", even though the dark gray and silver too had been changed 2 or 3 times over the years from 1990 to now, the color match on metal is great. The paint is so full of metal particles that you need to shake it MUCH more than the directions say. I guess that to get and keep the metal particles in suspension is why. When spraying it, you can see the metal particles in the over spray sparkle, and you really need to shake it almost constantly.

The fiberglass top didn't have any primer on it from the factory. The fiberglass didn't have any gray in it or the gelcoat. The paint was sprayed over the gelcoat. I lightly scuffed the fiberglass to make sure that the paint would stick. Since the factory didn't prime it, neither did I.

I just thought of a guy that I raced against as a teen that owns a shop that does everything from building engines to body work. I'm going to try what you suggested and call and leave a message for him, it might take a couple of days for him to have time to call me back.

I still don't understand how the fiberglass is affecting the paint through as many as 5 previous coats. I guess that I'll just add it to my list of things that are "F#)%!@& Magic". After 60 years, that's one hell of a list.

Thanks again, Paul
 
High metallic paints always were a bitch, to get them to match OEM paints,they can come out darker or lighter just by changing the distance you hold the gun (or can,in your case) from the surface,the amount of air pressure at the gun,and temperature and humidity can change the shade too....
Paint often does look different on fiberglass vs metal too..

Back when I mixed auto paints at work,the "worst" colors to mix and get a good match were high metallic silvers & golds,and bronze colored paints..those were the ones we got the most complaints from body shops on--you could tell which painters were "good" or not,by their ability to get the color to match perfectly by adjusting their technique..
 
Diesel,

I have learned the hard way that you are right.

Since there's no mixing that can't be it. I've done some spraying on metal and got a perfect color match. The problem is like you said about spraying different materials. I don't want to change the color. If I could, I'd paint it white to keep the interior temp as low as possible, but it wouldn't look right with that much of a third color.

Can you give me any advice about how I can guess how much darker than the original dark gray I should go? I know that is a dumb question, but at this point, I don't care. I guess that I'm asking you to look into your crystal ball.

Can anyone explain to me why the color is still changing when the fiberglass is under 5 coats of the same paint. Can anyone give me an e-mail address that I can send a pic to so that they can put it on the forum, preferably large enough for people with limited memberships to see it too. If it can be done, then I can explain the different areas of colors in the pic. I don't have many skills with a computer. E-mailing to another e-mail is one thing that I've learned (I think). Just in case my e-mail is [email protected]

Would a paint/body shop be able to use a machine to tell me how many shades difference there between the correct gray vs. the lighter wrong gray that's showing on the fiberglass. I don't know how I would get a sample of the paint that is on the fiberglass. I would hate to have to use a knife or other edge to cut a spot off of the top and I think that I need to take an actual sample of the wrong color and a sample of the same paint on a spray out panel that comes out the correct color.

I hope that I explained all of this correctly, any questions about what I was trying to say, just ask.

Thanks everybody, Paul
 
even newer vehicles not all panels match .

bumper covers painted in A factory . . . body shell painted in B factory . . . mirrors painted in C factory . . . .

no one is pulling from the same batch of paint . its all there own batches in each place .

I have seen some vehicles like a Toyota truck have 36 yes 36 variations of 1 specific paint code .

the real pros mix a full batch of paint for a project and then mix them all together and mix good . that way the 3-4-5-6- smaller cups of paint for each refill of the spray gun are 100% the same color .

as said any metallics SUCK
 
And the subsurface being painted makes a difference. Also, you may be dealing with a flop issue. When you look straight on it is close. Look from the side, it is way off. Rattle cans are really good at creating this.

The only true way to get a real match is with good prep, hand matched paint out of a real spray gun. This is why body shops blend all repair areas. So you don't see the hard line where it doesn't match between say a fender and a door.

The top probably needs real prep and primer and a full spray if you want it correct. Or go a full contrast color.
 
More than one body shop has told me the factory paint on plastic panels is a different color than what's sprayed on sheet metal, so that when complete, it all looks the same. If you get body work done, they mix 1 color, though, so maybe it's more critical for high volume automated painting where they're trying to go thinner. Could be the flex additives shift the color a bit, too. At a body shop, they probably add it to the whole batch and just use the "plastic" color.
 
Blue,

What you are saying is about what I was thinking. I did do some metal spot repair and you can't see it at all in the pics that I have in the computer and you have to get right on top of it to see it in person and it's only 2 light coats and no clear. I thought that for the factory to get that type of match that they just about had to be using paint that had been color adjusted. I wish that I knew how to figure out how to pick a color that will match the metal when sprayed on the fiberglass.

KT,

I've looked at it from every angle and with the sun at all angles. It just won't match. I've been thinking about a darker primer, something like a primer black, to help darken the dark gray up some. The top didn't have any primer at all on it from the factory. I even sanded some areas that were still gray on the side and the only thing
under the paint was fiberglass.

30,

The new ones may not match all panel colors, but this one was pretty close. There was a very minor difference between the metal and the fiberglass. I looked at some old pics the other evening that had it in the background when it was less than a year old, and it wasn't perfect match, but it was real close.

Any other info will be greatly appreciated, Thanks, Paul

Thanks, Paul
 
scpaul said:
I'm doing some touch up on a '90 Jimmy that has one of the GM 2 color paint jobs. It's silver (Dupli-color BGM0508, the dominant color) and dark gray (Dupli-color BGM0536, the secondary color). I did some edges of the doors where they had rubbed things like brick walls, they wern't bent. The dark gray was a perfect match. The fiberglass top was the same dark gray. It was badly faded on top and some on the sides. The dark gray that's a perfect match on the edge of the metal door is no where near the same color when sprayed on the fiberglass. I lightly sanded the fiberglass before I started spraying. The gelcoat was in good shape just faded. I have put 3 complete coats on the top thinking that maybe the lighter faded areas were causing the difference in color. It didn't change at all. I used a small area and put 3 more coats on it. The color still didn't change. It's somewhat close to a battleship gray with a little more gloss not the dark gray that the color was supposed to be. Remember that the different 2 colors came out of the same can. The same wrong color has now come out of a total of 6 cans.

I have sent Dupli-Color a pic and basically I was told that since the color was right on the metal that it's basically my problem about it being a different on the fiberglass.

I guess that I'm going to sand it, prime it, which it shouldn't have needed since I was putting the supposedly same color on. Someone suggested that there was a chemical reaction between the fiberglass and the paint. The first 3 coats had been on for about 3 days, so I thought that iit should have sealed the fiberglass so the paint couldn't touch it because of the 3 coats that were on it. I sprayed a small area with 3 more coats over the next 2 days. That small area is the same color as the other part of the fiberglass that only has 3 coats.

If there's anyone that can explain what's going on to me I would really appreciate it. With what has happened, I don't know if priming it would help since it had the original 3 coats on it and didn't they didn't make any difference at all.

I have a pic in my sent e-mails, but don't know how to e-mail it to this forum.

Any HELP before I go to a shrink would be greatly appreciated, Paul
Click to expand...

Hey paul, im a professional painter for 10 years now, residential, not automotive, but may be able to give some advice. When painting things as pours as fiberglass it would definitely be a good idea to sand and prime. The open pours of the fiberglass can act like a sponge and draw in portions of the paint chemicals which will cause a seperation of the pigments in the paint, just like painting the end grain of a board vs the side that has been planed or sanded, you can spray as much paint as you want on it and it will never look the same untill you have the surface sealed and brought to a "similar" degree of smoothness. Not only does it effect how the paint lays down and is absorbed, the "texture" of the surface will cause light to reflect differently compaired to the smoother surface of the metal. The way the light reflects off of the surface can and will alter the color you see because it changes the wave lengths of the color as it enters your eye. Sorry for the drawn out responce, but sometimes understanding how paint works can help understand the problem, i deal with it every day, and it still amazes me. I would do as planned and sand the surface over what u have painted, and prime area well, multiple coats even. The main thing is to get it smoother, then make sure those pours are sealed. If you dont care about a few brush marks id even try and brush some of the worst areas to get them sealed as well as possible. If you do care i still think a few good coats of a primer would go along way! Trust me even with several coats, it will continue to draw the paint into the fiberglass untill u can manage to fill all the little microscopic holes, literally like painting a sponge
 
I understand what you are saying. In the first painting session, I put 3 coats down between 15 min. and 1 hr. like the instructions said. Two days later I did basically the same thing. Since it had a form of a gelcoat on it and I just scuffed it a little to help the paint to stick, do you think that the gelcoat/fiberglass isn't sealed? In 1 small area, just to see if something like that was happening is where I put the second set of 3 coats. There wasn't any change in the area with 3 coats as compared to the section with 6 coats. It's wierd, I'd expect to see some change even if it wern't completely sealed.

I'm planning on trying a dark (probably flat black) primer in a small area and see if that helps. I've had a couple tell me that paint doesn't come out the same color on fiberglass as it does on metal no matter how many coats you put on it.

It seems weird to me, but anybody has to know better than me. I called duplicolor and e-mailed a pic and he couldn't give me an answer. He kept pointing out that the color was right on the metal. I'm the one that told him that and told him where the repair was on the metal.

Thanks, see y'all at the funny farm, Paul
 
scpaul said:
I understand what you are saying. In the first painting session, I put 3 coats down between 15 min. and 1 hr. like the instructions said. Two days later I did basically the same thing. Since it had a form of a gelcoat on it and I just scuffed it a little to help the paint to stick, do you think that the gelcoat/fiberglass isn't sealed? In 1 small area, just to see if something like that was happening is where I put the second set of 3 coats. There wasn't any change in the area with 3 coats as compared to the section with 6 coats. It's wierd, I'd expect to see some change even if it wern't completely sealed.

I'm planning on trying a dark (probably flat black) primer in a small area and see if that helps. I've had a couple tell me that paint doesn't come out the same color on fiberglass as it does on metal no matter how many coats you put on it.

It seems weird to me, but anybody has to know better than me. I called duplicolor and e-mailed a pic and he couldn't give me an answer. He kept pointing out that the color was right on the metal. I'm the one that told him that and told him where the repair was on the metal.

Thanks, see y'all at the funny farm, Paul[/QUOTE
It does seem a little odd that you see no difference when adding all those layers to your test area, im not sure how they were painted at the factory but i wld imigine there would have been some sort of sealer applied to the fiberglass before the paint, to keep the solivents in the oil based paint from reacting with the resins in the fiberglass, even something clear. That would possibly explain why you dont see it. I honestly dont know though... i do know when we paint fiberglass siding or barn doors we use a good oil base primer to make a barrier for the paint, so it doesnt "Bleed" through the topcoat, basically like what happens when you paint osb board or chipboard without primer, it bleeds through the paint causing miscoloration or staining from it reacting with the chemicals in the glue and the tannins in the wood. Looking forward to seeing you get this resolved!
Click to expand...
 
Aaron,

I don't know or see where you messed up on that post. Now that you've got me curious, where or how? Right, wrong or indifferent, I appreciate the effort. If I had an answer, I wouldn't be putting the question on here.

On another string, I couldn't find the correct way to try to say/explain something, so it comes off like I'm saying that something may have a pos. ground. Unless it's foreign, I don't know of any vehicles that are pos. ground. That's why I like a face to face conversation, so if there's a mistake or wrong wording, you can try to explain it easier. The fact that I can't type worth 2 cents doesn't help any. When I type really fast, I have smoke coming off 2 fingers, 1 on each hand.

Have a good one, and thanks, Paul
 
just a super quick skim, super quick, of the last posts.... so I'm only gleaning about 2% of what's been said... but a 25 to 35 yr old gelcoat top will certainly have some porosity more than likely... I gel and paint boats for a living.... there is NO difference in how paint covers gel as opposed to metal when it comes to color....

but with porosity, it will leave pinholes.... you can continue pouring paint on till they are filled, than sand and overcoat... or, you can properly prime and sand it to fill the pinholes, than paint.. if it was nice, fresh gelcoat, you could just sand and paint without issue...

other tidbits.. flex additive has gone the way of the dodo, modern urethane paints haven't needed it in decades... we used to use it in the 80's occasionally... and it does not affect color... it's not like collision shops paint a hood, 2 fenders and the doors with the bumper masked off. than paint that separately with flex added...


I didn't read the beginning, so i'm not sure what this whole "2 color" issue is....
 
Thanks Ryoken,

I decided to repaint the fiberglass top on my '90 GMC Jimmy 1500. I bought some Perfect Match paint (Dupli-Color). I did a repair on the cdge of the drivers door where my wife opened the door into a wall. I sanded and sprayed a light coat, sprayed a second light coat, and you can't tell where the repair is and I'm not finished with it yet. The fiberglass top was the same color. It had faded to almost white on top. I lightly scuffed it because the coat (Gelcoat?) was smooth. The same can of paint gives me an ugly silver gray. I sprayed 3 coats and waited. I was told that the paint was too thin and also that it was a chemical reaction. I took a small area and put 3 more coats to make sure that it was sealed and that any chemicals would surely be sealed under the paint. The paint didn't change color. The 2 small areas now have 6 coats on them. I just came in from putting black and gray primer on 2 areas to try the gray paint again after it dries and is lightly sanded with 800 grit. I may be wrong, but I don't expect any changes but, I'm going to try it. After 6 coats of the gray paint and then primed, I will see. It's hard for me to believe that it wasn't sealed after 6 coats or that chemicals can get through 6 coats and cause problems.

Keep in mind that I'm not a painter and don't know a thing about automotive painting except that I'd commit suicide if that was what I had to do for a living. Taping it off was a nightmare.

If you have any other suggestions, let me know. I've got to get more paint to use touching up a few other spots on metal where it's a perfect match.

I have some pics, but don't have or know how to send them to this thread. If there was a regular e-mail address that I could send them to I would, even though it would probably be one at a time.

Thanks, Paul
 
FYI, I shot the same paint on my fiberglass top and the sheet metal and never noticed any difference in color. I did complete prep of the top by sanding it smooth, filling the seams and coating in the same primer I had on the rest of the truck. Pretty much no chance for it not to match.

I would think with a rattle can, the chances of mismatch are greater, since a catalyzed paint cures so much faster. A sealer primer should solve the issue, but a difference in texture could still make the color play a little differently. I have seen a K5 top color-matched to the truck, but with texture still there and I didn't notice a color difference, although it was probably clear-coated.
 
I'm going to try to find a can with a little left in it to spray over the 2 primers that I shot about 2 hours ago. I'll see if the primer helps. This area was scuffed lightly with 800 just to make it easier for the paint to stick because it was smooth.

I probably won't be sure of the results until tomorrow, provided that I can find a can that's not empty.

Paul
 
I found a can with a little in it. Enough for 2 light coats on the small primed areas (flat black and light gray primers). With no more than I had to spray, it's hard to tell, but it SEEMED to be different than the first coat that I put on the other day.

I think that the paint on the gray primer looks better than what's on the black, but I can't tell much with no more paint than I had. I would think that since the gray paint was coming out too light that the black would be the better primer. I'm going to get some more paint tomorrow, so I'll have an answer day after tomorrow or the next day, depending on the weather. It's supposed to be getting cold for us this weekend. Lows at night in the 20's at least 1 night and 30's a couple others. I realize that isn't cold for most of y'all.

Thanks again, I'll let you know how it goes in a couple days. I might have an electric heater that I can use to heat the top from the inside. That might make it possible to paint if It will bring the temperature of the top up some

I thought about using a roller and putting it on thick, then take a random orbital sander to smooth it out. It would be tempting if it keeps giving me trouble, but I'm not going to do it,.......... I don't think.

Thanks again, Paul
 
scpaul said:
I found a can with a little in it. Enough for 2 light coats on the small primed areas (flat black and light gray primers). With no more than I had to spray, it's hard to tell, but it SEEMED to be different than the first coat that I put on the other day.

I think that the paint on the gray primer looks better than what's on the black, but I can't tell much with no more paint than I had. I would think that since the gray paint was coming out too light that the black would be the better primer. I'm going to get some more paint tomorrow, so I'll have an answer day after tomorrow or the next day, depending on the weather. It's supposed to be getting cold for us this weekend. Lows at night in the 20's at least 1 night and 30's a couple others. I realize that isn't cold for most of y'all.

Thanks again, I'll let you know how it goes in a couple days. I might have an electric heater that I can use to heat the top from the inside. That might make it possible to paint if It will bring the temperature of the top up some

I thought about using a roller and putting it on thick, then take a random orbital sander to smooth it out. It would be tempting if it keeps giving me trouble, but I'm not going to do it,.......... I don't think.

Thanks again, Paul
Click to expand...


Paul, sounds like ryoken might have a little mor insight then i could give you, but the post i was refering to was attache to your post, on the last half of the post at 1015 last night, you have to click on your post and expand it to read what i wrote, some how i attached it to the bottom of your post, sorry for the confusion
 
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