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5.9 Cummins link thread....

ryoken

ryoken

Puppy Fabricator
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anybody got good Cummins links saved they wouldn't mind sharing? :ears:

parts places, tech/articles, forums, etc... anything... I'm gonna start compiling as much info as I can cuz currently I'm relatively uninformed....

i'm looking to go 12v, but 24 stuff is fine too...

pretty sure I'm gonna have a nice one fall in my lap this summer, and I want to be as prepared as possible, hopefully do a swap next winter..... the plan is a stock 12v (for now) with a GM NV4500/205 behind it.. and I've forgotten exactly what I need to do for that bellhousing-wise, etc.. what mounts are good, etc... my 89 205 will be backing it up...

the rig for sale will be auto, so it's just a mill for me... iirc it's the later GM box that has the better gear set? or is it vice versa? :doah::haha:
 
It's scattered all around. Not nailed town to one place. I use 4btswaps and gm square body cummins swap Facebook group. Many people make a thread and it dies very quickly. Very few follow through till the end it seems.
Here's my recipe.

96 12 valve 2wd auto donor parts list:

Entire core support was taken from donor for key parts like the intercooler, radiator, battery cables, fasteners etc.

P pump 12 valve motor with all stock dodge accessories.
The auto trans bellhousing adapter is the same on second gens for auto and standard. No need to mess with it.
I am using an advance adapters reproduction oem dodge bellhousing because they are less expensive than used originals.
Dodge clutch and flywheel setup
1997 chevy nv4500 with a dodge input gear swapped in. I have an input gear swap kit for sale just saying.
Standard gm nv4500 swap stuff like the hydraulic hydroboost clutch pedals
I am using Tennessee diesel master and slave kit to go with those pedals.
I am using a short input gear with a notched adapter housing. It is aftermarket cast iron. Bolts up directly, no spacer.
I also have the ord twin stick for the cummins swap for 4" exhaust. It is a little tighter fitting for clearance.
The 205 will probably be two inches more forward than stock from a th400 205 but I don't remember the numbers exactly. I was planning on new driveshafts anyways.

As for the engine bay I am planning on a gm alternator with the syndicate chop shop bracket set. Not purchased yet. May use dodge alternator with an external regulator.

I will not be using anything vacuum but the dodge vac pump could be used or blocked off. Power steering pump is a basic Saginaw pump. Your gm unit will go right in place or use the dodge pump and gm hydroboost lines.

Fuel lines should be routed down driver side frame rail if you feel like it.
The fuel shutoff solenoid can be powered by the distributor ignition wire.

That's all I can think of off the top.
Any questions I'll try and help.
 
4btswaps.com. I used dodge NV4500 with GM output and cast iron tail housing from ORD. Stephen had some good advice on mating the GM round pattern NV4500 and the GM 205 together. The 205 bearing retainer bolts bottomed out before the two flanges mated.
 
Bread truck/box vans are good sources. Some had Cummins to gm trans adapters factory. Probably getting hard to find though with all the swapping people do now days. My Ford has a VE pumped 12 valve with a factory adapter to a ZF-5 trans.
Keep the mechanical fan clutch and shroud at all costs if you plan to tow.
 
obijuank5 said:
It's scattered all around. Not nailed town to one place. I use 4btswaps and gm square body cummins swap Facebook group. Many people make a thread and it dies very quickly. Very few follow through till the end it seems.
Here's my recipe.

96 12 valve 2wd auto donor parts list:

Entire core support was taken from donor for key parts like the intercooler, radiator, battery cables, fasteners etc.

P pump 12 valve motor with all stock dodge accessories.
The auto trans bellhousing adapter is the same on second gens for auto and standard. No need to mess with it.
I am using an advance adapters reproduction oem dodge bellhousing because they are less expensive than used originals.
Dodge clutch and flywheel setup
1997 chevy nv4500 with a dodge input gear swapped in. I have an input gear swap kit for sale just saying.
Standard gm nv4500 swap stuff like the hydraulic hydroboost clutch pedals
I am using Tennessee diesel master and slave kit to go with those pedals.
I am using a short input gear with a notched adapter housing. It is aftermarket cast iron. Bolts up directly, no spacer.
I also have the ord twin stick for the cummins swap for 4" exhaust. It is a little tighter fitting for clearance.
The 205 will probably be two inches more forward than stock from a th400 205 but I don't remember the numbers exactly. I was planning on new driveshafts anyways.

As for the engine bay I am planning on a gm alternator with the syndicate chop shop bracket set. Not purchased yet. May use dodge alternator with an external regulator.

I will not be using anything vacuum but the dodge vac pump could be used or blocked off. Power steering pump is a basic Saginaw pump. Your gm unit will go right in place or use the dodge pump and gm hydroboost lines.

Fuel lines should be routed down driver side frame rail if you feel like it.
The fuel shutoff solenoid can be powered by the distributor ignition wire.

That's all I can think of off the top.
Any questions I'll try and help.
Click to expand...



see, that just reopened initial questions i have, and added a couple.... i don't even understand what is the best approach, or more importantly what parts i need...

I'm assuming being i have the round pattern GM 205 already, that my best avenue was a 4x4 GM NV4500 and it will bolt right up to it.. but now it's sounding like that isn't the case... I'm guessing GM never had the 205 behind them...


1 - what do i need to bolt the GM4500 to the motor? an adapter and bellhousing? or do i just want a stock bellhousing for a dodge 6BT with a 5spd?

2- do i want to put this larger 1 1/4" dizzle input shaft i'm reading about in this box? what does that affect parts-wise? what clutch i buy?

so, 97+ GM box..... rebuild, change the input and output shafts (to what?)... parts - bellhousing (#?), clutch, 4500 rebuild kit, input/output shafts...



if i had the pile of parts in front of me, it would be simple... :haha:
 
Hybrid dodge chevy nv4500.
96 and newer chevrolet transmissions share many things with the dodge versions.

I think the lowest difficulty option is all dodge with a gm output shaft and adapter housing swapped in for the 32 spline 205. Advance adapter spacer to use the long input gear. That is only three parts purchased that aren't OEM to the setup.

That makes it all dodge inside the bellhousing and uses a common bellhousing. Then hydraulic clutch items from crewcab59 at Tennessee diesel.

If you choose to put a chevrolet trans in it then 96 and newer can have a dodge input gear swapped in and you still use the dodge bell and clutch setup. They share the same bolt pattern on the face of the trans.

Chevrolet input gear can not handle the torque. It's not advised to use all chevrolet trans with a bread truck adapter.
 
Truckman4life said:
http://www.trucktrend.com/how-to/pr...a-cummins-into-a-1973-to-1991-chevy-suburban/
I'm betting you have seen this one. Their budget might have been a little more open than yours'(or any of ours'). Destroked has good stuff from what I have seen but spendy and lots cheaper ways to go about things.
Click to expand...


that page is only bringing up the first 2 parts... i did follow a link to destroked... but again, i don't have the first clue as to what i would want to buy from them... :haha:


i'm really not too worried about making the stuff work, fab, x-members, plumbing, etc..... I just neeed to know what drivetrain parts i need...

eventually, i'll do some minor mill performance work.. studs, injectors, yada... i'm not looking for a ton of power, more reliability.. but i'd love to see like 400 to 450 and 1000 to 1200 ft/lb's....
 
obijuank5 said:
Hybrid dodge chevy nv4500.
96 and newer chevrolet transmissions share many things with the dodge versions.

I think the lowest difficulty option is all dodge with a gm output shaft and adapter housing swapped in for the 32 spline 205. Advance adapter spacer to use the long input gear. That is only three parts purchased that aren't OEM to the setup.

That makes it all dodge inside the bellhousing and uses a common bellhousing. Then hydraulic clutch items from crewcab59 at Tennessee diesel.

If you choose to put a chevrolet trans in it then 96 and newer can have a dodge input gear swapped in and you still use the dodge bell and clutch setup. They share the same bolt pattern on the face of the trans.

Chevrolet input gear can not handle the torque. It's not advised to use all chevrolet trans with a bread truck adapter.
Click to expand...



ok, sweet... now i'm getting it, albeit turtle-like.... so above the oem stuff, i would need 3 special parts. a front and rear adapter and an output shaft?


now is that the larger dizzle version input shaft i was reading about? and that's a dodge 4x box? a 2 wheel with different tailhousing doesn't work?
 
If it was me I would do as @obijuank5 suggested and go all dodge if I could and get engine/trans/tcase all from the same donor to save on having to adapt things together. Destroked offers adapters but they cost a lot. I used to work on semis and I like to go with a lot of oem stuff from the medium duty world. Not sure if you have any big truck salvage yards in your area but they can be great for looking at different options. They offered the 12 valve cummins in a lot of freightliner trucks and box vans like fedex and ups trucks.
 
so, here's a question... should i ditch my 205? what's the dodge box from that era?
 
Ill also get on board the use a dodge trans bandwagon. Although I never did one I did alot of research towards doing a 4bt back in the day. The bread van adapters put the trans on an odd 10*ish tilt. Then although probably not a big deal you're piecing clutch components together IIRC. I could be wrong but cant you run a dodge input in the 205 and slap that on the back of the dodge nv4500 since you've got the round pattern?

I can tell you from experience the dodge round pattern and chevy are the same other than needing to egg 1 hole out slightly. Clocking works out differently but not drastically that a ring cant fix it. I cant speak on 205 experience but a chevy 241 input went right in my dodge fixed yoke 241. Might be worth doing the research to see if the 205 has the same capability. Ive become a big proponent of retaining as much stock pieces as possible when it comes to things like drivetrain and suspension. Fab is great but if you ever haul with that thing and your clutch goes 1000 miles from home you'll be happy you only need a dodge clutch from off the shelf and not a dodge disc and a chevy pressure plate, just as an example.
 
You brought up a great point about using the dodge input gear on the 205. However they are male male much like a 10 spline 205 and 465.

Ord again to the rescue with a female 29 spline input gear. Give Chris a call at ord and work out the details. It's relatively new to me but that might simplify it a little more.
 
obijuank5 said:
You brought up a great point about using the dodge input gear on the 205. However they are male male much like a 10 spline 205 and 465.

Ord again to the rescue with a female 29 spline input gear. Give Chris a call at ord and work out the details. It's relatively new to me but that might simplify it a little more.
Click to expand...


i'd be fine popping for a piece like that.. i wanna go thru it anyway and twin stick... i'd gladly drop a couple hundy on a piece like that...


sweet.. thanks ton's guys... :bow:

so now i need to keep an eye out for that dodge box... what was the yr range on that again? the early dodge ones are fine right? so thats like 94 up to what?
 
ok, so i want the HD dodge right? dizzle, with the 1 1/4 shaft...
 
FYI...mating your current round pattern long input 205 to a GM NV4500 is pretty easy. There are two ways you can do it. You can purchase a short input 32 spline for the 205 and swap it in, and it will bolt right up. You will most likely have to notch the tail-housing of the 4500 just a tad to clear the shift rail of the 205, but nothing to terrible.

Or, you can purchase an Advanced Adapters "spacer" if you will, and then it will bolt up just fine (you also have to notch the tail-housing of the 4500 just a smidge this way too...but nothing drastic at all...just a little bit). That's what I did with my 4500 swap. AA also makes a little bracket to bolt off the side of your 4500 so you can keep your shifter for the 205 in the stock location.

Both routes are about the same amount of money, but the input swap route means a tear down of the 205. Since they were the same money, I went AA route cause it was even easier.


As far as GM4500 to Cummins, I think most have nailed it down. I am pretty sure there have been guys who have swapped the input of the 4500 to a dodge input on a GM 4500 (along with the bell housing and clutch already mentioned above) with good success. But I'm not 100% sure as I went the 8.1 swap route instead of 12v
 
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