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52s vs custom front leaves
- Thread starter 72k5mike
- Start date
COCHEV
1/2 ton status
Sure would save a lot of grinding....
Mixing and matching leaves from different packs to build something else is an ok idea. Not a good or great idea but ok. Problem is that you're going to end up with varying thickness leaves and the stress is always greatest in the thickest leaves. This will bend those leaves first. The length stepping will never be perfect (perfect is a relative term for leaf springs anyway but there are grades of better...) which will load some parts of the pack more than others. That's one of the big problems with rear leaves up front and removing overloads. In addition to the lack of spring capacity, the stepping is non existant in the lower leaves since the overload overlapped where lower leaves would be. They'll try to bend right around the spring perch.
That said, if you can come up with a batch of leaves with close to the same thickness and lengths that step reasonably even and have a decent idea how many springs to end up with, you can build a decent spring pack. Obviously the extension of this exercise is what places like Alcan will do and do right every time by starting from scratch with the right material and ability to build the length from scratch.
In general our stock mounting point springs (not stock length) will get 5-5.5" of bump travel from ride height and about that same amount in droop. On our springs, the bump travel should be limited with a bumpstop at this 5-5.5" amount.
Pricing has been updated over the last 18mo or so and most of our front springs are running $630 for the pair. A heavy truck (typically cummins) will step up to $690. Timing has been running about a month total, little quicker on a few sets lately.
Ride quality is still really nice.
That said, if you can come up with a batch of leaves with close to the same thickness and lengths that step reasonably even and have a decent idea how many springs to end up with, you can build a decent spring pack. Obviously the extension of this exercise is what places like Alcan will do and do right every time by starting from scratch with the right material and ability to build the length from scratch.
In general our stock mounting point springs (not stock length) will get 5-5.5" of bump travel from ride height and about that same amount in droop. On our springs, the bump travel should be limited with a bumpstop at this 5-5.5" amount.
Pricing has been updated over the last 18mo or so and most of our front springs are running $630 for the pair. A heavy truck (typically cummins) will step up to $690. Timing has been running about a month total, little quicker on a few sets lately.
Ride quality is still really nice.
Well let me fill yall in on what im working with.. This is how my truck sits
Im not sure what leaf springs are on it, One guy (that i almost, and still may, buy a set of 4" lift springs from) told me he thinks they are stock.. doesn't seem like a stock ride height to me.
These are the springs off the truck:
And here is on the truck:
I personally think they are old Rancho Lift leafs, reason being is this wrap over second leaf:
Ideally i would like to keep the main leaf, and add leafs to it from there. Now the way i would do it, would only be by using and existing spring pack. That way the leaves (other than the main) would all be matched as far as size and stepping. I know that the 46"s have the center bolt in the center of the pack. as well as the 52's... after looking at the chart in this thread http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/inte...ancho-rs44044-chevy-blazer-front-springs.html There are some other leaf packs that have center bolt setups also..
I know i could just spend the $$, have someone build em, and call it a day, but i have never been that kinda guy.. To me the $$ "wasted" if it doesn't work out, was worth the knowledge gained.
Im not sure what leaf springs are on it, One guy (that i almost, and still may, buy a set of 4" lift springs from) told me he thinks they are stock.. doesn't seem like a stock ride height to me.
These are the springs off the truck:
And here is on the truck:
I personally think they are old Rancho Lift leafs, reason being is this wrap over second leaf:
Ideally i would like to keep the main leaf, and add leafs to it from there. Now the way i would do it, would only be by using and existing spring pack. That way the leaves (other than the main) would all be matched as far as size and stepping. I know that the 46"s have the center bolt in the center of the pack. as well as the 52's... after looking at the chart in this thread http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/inte...ancho-rs44044-chevy-blazer-front-springs.html There are some other leaf packs that have center bolt setups also..
I know i could just spend the $$, have someone build em, and call it a day, but i have never been that kinda guy.. To me the $$ "wasted" if it doesn't work out, was worth the knowledge gained.
I hear ya.. But to me, there's no bigger pay off than knowing i accomplished it the "under dog" route, so to say.
So, i just seen a set of 7pack wagoner leafs on Clist in my town, freshly repainted and packed..
Thinking aloud here: Based on my measurements, it will move the axle exactly one inch forward.. since they are a 47" spring the shackle angle might be okay still.. and based on that chart, they can hold the weight decently.. hmmm
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First off, I want to explain that I am not trying to be pushy, as I understand your angle of thinking. However, I can't convey in words how much of a change it made in my truck. I can tell you that those are not stock front springs for your truck and are the reason why you don't like the ride. As others have stated, sometimes paying someone for their knowledge is worth the money. But it is also your truck, so do as you want!
COCHEV
1/2 ton status
Ain't that the damn truth.
I really do understand what your saying and trying to do. And honestly I am betting that this is a Gateway to you getting some nice springs ordered in a few years.
You can and will put this together in a way that after some time will ride nicely and work out, at some point you will want more and there are people out there that can help you with that when your ready.
As I have gotten older my time with my Wife and kids is more valuable and seems to be in short supply, money is always tight as well but I am the type to do the research and pull the trigger to buy or build what I want the first time. Now that might take me a few years but that's just how I am.
Bingo! haha, in time i plan to 4-link the truck and run coil springs.. but until then, i just couldn't handle the ride anymore...
okay, so i was working on it pretty much all weekend and, well, ITS DONE! and boy does it ride nice! im still gonna change out the rancho 5000's but as of now, its a 100% improvement. and it actually lifted an inch or so too!
I found a guy with some 52's for 40$, and had to buy a 12$ cobalt drill bit, some nuts and bolts as some had worn and didn't look too trustworthy.. I kept the main leaf, and used the 52" pack below it. as well as the larger 52's bolt pin (needed to enlarge the fronts main leafs bolt pin hole).
Leafs before and after:
How they sit now:
Now i just gotta swap out the shocks, swap out the shackle bushings, and get extended brake lines.. well and x-over steering wouldnt hurt haha. Anyone have a used setup in so. cal?
COCHEV
1/2 ton status
So you took the 46" main leaf from a lifted spring pack and added 52 leaves? I've seen where someone took the stock front spring pack and did the same with similar results. Looks like it worked well for you tho
Yep, Exactly.. Yea, I haven't drove it too much, but from what I have it's much nicer! Only time will tell if its gonna last, but even if it doesn't, I won't be out much $$ haha
Update
Okay.. So I changed the shocks out, ( i used 07 F150 4x4 rear shocks) extended the brake lines (used 88 c2500 brake lines), and replaced the shackle bushings. Took it out today and kinda got it flexed a bit and the front shocks bottomed out.. BUT when they did, my leafs were inverted (slightly).. So I'm wondering if I should install the over load leaf or install bump stops.. I am right to think that the leaf pack inverting is not okay right? Haha.
What do y'all think?
Okay.. So I changed the shocks out, ( i used 07 F150 4x4 rear shocks) extended the brake lines (used 88 c2500 brake lines), and replaced the shackle bushings. Took it out today and kinda got it flexed a bit and the front shocks bottomed out.. BUT when they did, my leafs were inverted (slightly).. So I'm wondering if I should install the over load leaf or install bump stops.. I am right to think that the leaf pack inverting is not okay right? Haha.
What do y'all think?
Having the leaves "inverted" has long been considered bad, but it completely depends on the spring and is FAR from a rule.
Positive or negative arch actually don't matter, it's the amount of travel from free arch that matters. And the amount of travel that the spring can take, without permanently deforming, is based mostly on leaf length and leaf thickness.
Okay I gotcha.. So it's pretty much trial and error, with the error being broken leafs haha.. Or is there a "guide" where I can give you the number and you can tell me if its okay or not? Because I can swap the shocks out to 1" shorter ones. It shouldn't bottom out after that, but the leafs will DEFF be backwards haha
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Shocks are a completely different discussion, a different thread entirely. The shocks have to accomodate the suspension travel you need and also have the damping for the use of the truck. Again, most of that is a different thread, but sounds like you don't have enough travel.
The leaves are not trial and error at all, you can calculate the available travel based on the length of the leaves and thickness of the leaves, as most all spring steel is very similar in composition.
Putting a spring designed for the rear in the front pretty much ends up wrong every time, that's why people that use them on the trail tear them up constantly (I've personally been there, done that).
On top of that, "stepping" the length of each spring is VERY important for axle wrap control and spring life, again, most people overlook these details and kill springs.
I understand shocks are a different discussion, What i trying to say is that if its okay for the leafs to go into neg. arch, then i could install 1" shorter shocks so that way i still have the tuck but with out bottoming out.. If its bad for them to go neg, then ill keep the current shocks and install bump stops.. or the overload leaf, which would help with stepping..
What info/measurements do you need to find out if its okay?
Some pics:
I didnt get a pic of the front springs at the time sorry...
What info/measurements do you need to find out if its okay?
Some pics:
I didnt get a pic of the front springs at the time sorry...
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COCHEV
1/2 ton status
Why not just lower your bump stops and keep the shocks you have. Looks like you've got more than enough flex
