Yes it needs to.
CK5
Register an account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members.
'72 K5 - Greg's @MightAsWellK5 Build
- Thread starter Greg72
- Start date
This is the build description. I will improve this later. (GB)
Those look very similar to the corbeau ones I used.
I welded the black tube to the slider bracket. It made it much easier to keep the parallel for mockup.
I welded the black tube to the slider bracket. It made it much easier to keep the parallel for mockup.
I agree with the purchase as well Greg....although most anything can be built, time is a factor and trying to reinvent a part chews up the clock.
For me, I've skipped over many things to be able to use the Maiden, I still have a list 2 pages long of "to dos" but I'm not regretting being able to actually use the rig.
Now if I could just get the CC/Cummins conversion usable.....
For me, I've skipped over many things to be able to use the Maiden, I still have a list 2 pages long of "to dos" but I'm not regretting being able to actually use the rig.
Now if I could just get the CC/Cummins conversion usable.....
2016.10.03 - UPDATE!! - THIS BUILD IS GETTING ON-TRACK!!!
Not a bad weekend's worth of head-scratching and forward progress!
Going with the Sparco seat tracks was a good idea. Summit Racing had them in stock and true-to-form... they shipped out of the OH facility and were at my house by Friday night!
Obviously, the tracks are "universal fit" which is a marketing term for "not likely to fit anything you own".
So the first order of business was to figure out what the "ideal" hole spacing would be to use the tracks "as is" and then starting making decisions about how to build a base/mount to accommodate that.
For me, Step 1 was simply squaring-up the track on a scrap of plywood and bolting one down, then based on the width of the u-shaped tubular adjuster place the second track down 100% parallel to the first and figure out all the measurements and existing hole patterns.
The dimensions were pretty odd when taken in English units, so I figured that they must be based on metric (mm) but when converted to metric they still looked like oddball values. Who knows?
Then the head-scratching started.
The driver's seat is still bolted to the factory floor, so that is still available as a "reference seat"... though it was modified to slide MUCH further back than stock (we've discussed this before, I'm not sure why GM didn't allow for maximum possible legroom adjustment) The backrest eventually hits the b-pillar cagework, so that establishes the limits for how far back things can go. With a scrap of 1/2" MDF between the seat and the cage a small buffer space was established. On the passenger side, since there is no floor it's hard to find any kind of index or starting point to build from. Anytime you are trying to build in 3-D space without a good reference point things get tricky and tedious.
The challenge was maximizing the amount of "slide" that the new seat tracks have to make ingress/egress to the back seat area as easy as possible. The new tracks provide approximately 9.25" of adjustment. Since the "all the way back" position was defined by the seatback/cagework, the idea was to make sure that the seat tracks were also "fully back" at the same time. Of course, it starts to hurt your head, because there is flexibility about where to mount the "seat side" of the track, as well as the "floor side" of the track so many different combinations can achieve the same result. The only difference is how much track sticks out the back, and how bizarre the intermediate adapter brackets (the ones that go from the tracks down to the floor mounts) will look.
A full 1:1 scale drawing was necessary.... it just wasn't making sense, and it was important to see all the factory holes in both the Blazer seat, as well as the pre-drilled holes in the Sparco seat rails. Perhaps something would line up???
After studying the combinations for a while, it was decided to install the seat-facing part of the slider as far to the rear of the seat as possible, and in fact the rearmost hole was the only "common" hole shared between the OEM seat and the new rails!
The seat is pretty deep on the underside... about 3" of dead space under there, so the seat rails dont' really NEED to be installed directly to that seatpan, and it makes adapting everything even harder. A simpler method was to use some 1"x1"x.125"wall box tubing as an intermediate riser. This allowed the hole patterns from both the factory seatpan and the new seat tracks to be combined onto a single part and made life a lot easier.
The end-result was a really nice-looking and low-profile seat of modern sliders on a 50-year old seat!!!
Ultimately, the sliders had to be cut-down by about 1.25" to get the fitment perfect... which means that the total "slide" will only be 8" instead of 9". Compromises are all part of the build.
On the floor, some tubework was installed to provide mounting points for the seat. It was also important to avoid welding the tubes directly to the frame since the floor still needs to be installed, and the entire rollcage needs to be removable. So some heavywall DOM vertical slugs were dropped into place and sit on a small 3/4" threaded bung that is permanently welded to the frame below it. This allows the entire system to be locked together once the cage is bolted in, and since this truck doesn't have any body mount bushings anymore... the assembly should be incredibly rigid.
By around 11:30PM last night, it was finally time to drop the seat back down into position and confirm that everything was lining up well. I was pleased to see that the seatback angle was good, the overall height of the passenger seat (as compared to the unmodified drivers seat) was identical and the seat was as far back against the cagework as it can possibly go. It was a "win" all the way around.
So the next step will be to build the intermediate framework that will attach to the bottom of the seat tracks and then weld to those new tubular structures on the floor. The final step will be to dream up some way to pivot the seat forward and design a positive-locking mechanism that will hold the rear seat track area down tight, strong and safe!
-G
Not a bad weekend's worth of head-scratching and forward progress!
Going with the Sparco seat tracks was a good idea. Summit Racing had them in stock and true-to-form... they shipped out of the OH facility and were at my house by Friday night!
Obviously, the tracks are "universal fit" which is a marketing term for "not likely to fit anything you own".
So the first order of business was to figure out what the "ideal" hole spacing would be to use the tracks "as is" and then starting making decisions about how to build a base/mount to accommodate that.For me, Step 1 was simply squaring-up the track on a scrap of plywood and bolting one down, then based on the width of the u-shaped tubular adjuster place the second track down 100% parallel to the first and figure out all the measurements and existing hole patterns.
The dimensions were pretty odd when taken in English units, so I figured that they must be based on metric (mm) but when converted to metric they still looked like oddball values. Who knows?
Then the head-scratching started.
The driver's seat is still bolted to the factory floor, so that is still available as a "reference seat"... though it was modified to slide MUCH further back than stock (we've discussed this before, I'm not sure why GM didn't allow for maximum possible legroom adjustment) The backrest eventually hits the b-pillar cagework, so that establishes the limits for how far back things can go. With a scrap of 1/2" MDF between the seat and the cage a small buffer space was established. On the passenger side, since there is no floor it's hard to find any kind of index or starting point to build from. Anytime you are trying to build in 3-D space without a good reference point things get tricky and tedious.
The challenge was maximizing the amount of "slide" that the new seat tracks have to make ingress/egress to the back seat area as easy as possible. The new tracks provide approximately 9.25" of adjustment. Since the "all the way back" position was defined by the seatback/cagework, the idea was to make sure that the seat tracks were also "fully back" at the same time. Of course, it starts to hurt your head, because there is flexibility about where to mount the "seat side" of the track, as well as the "floor side" of the track so many different combinations can achieve the same result. The only difference is how much track sticks out the back, and how bizarre the intermediate adapter brackets (the ones that go from the tracks down to the floor mounts) will look.
A full 1:1 scale drawing was necessary.... it just wasn't making sense, and it was important to see all the factory holes in both the Blazer seat, as well as the pre-drilled holes in the Sparco seat rails. Perhaps something would line up???
After studying the combinations for a while, it was decided to install the seat-facing part of the slider as far to the rear of the seat as possible, and in fact the rearmost hole was the only "common" hole shared between the OEM seat and the new rails!
The seat is pretty deep on the underside... about 3" of dead space under there, so the seat rails dont' really NEED to be installed directly to that seatpan, and it makes adapting everything even harder. A simpler method was to use some 1"x1"x.125"wall box tubing as an intermediate riser. This allowed the hole patterns from both the factory seatpan and the new seat tracks to be combined onto a single part and made life a lot easier.The end-result was a really nice-looking and low-profile seat of modern sliders on a 50-year old seat!!!
Ultimately, the sliders had to be cut-down by about 1.25" to get the fitment perfect... which means that the total "slide" will only be 8" instead of 9". Compromises are all part of the build.
On the floor, some tubework was installed to provide mounting points for the seat. It was also important to avoid welding the tubes directly to the frame since the floor still needs to be installed, and the entire rollcage needs to be removable. So some heavywall DOM vertical slugs were dropped into place and sit on a small 3/4" threaded bung that is permanently welded to the frame below it. This allows the entire system to be locked together once the cage is bolted in, and since this truck doesn't have any body mount bushings anymore... the assembly should be incredibly rigid.
By around 11:30PM last night, it was finally time to drop the seat back down into position and confirm that everything was lining up well. I was pleased to see that the seatback angle was good, the overall height of the passenger seat (as compared to the unmodified drivers seat) was identical and the seat was as far back against the cagework as it can possibly go. It was a "win" all the way around.
So the next step will be to build the intermediate framework that will attach to the bottom of the seat tracks and then weld to those new tubular structures on the floor. The final step will be to dream up some way to pivot the seat forward and design a positive-locking mechanism that will hold the rear seat track area down tight, strong and safe!
-G
bp71k5
3/4 ton status
Ah, so it'll slide AND pivot forward? Might be interested in redoing mine if you come up with something that works well.2016.10.03 - UPDATE!! - THIS BUILD IS GETTING ON-TRACK!!!
Not a bad weekend's worth of head-scratching and forward progress!
Going with the Sparco seat tracks was a good idea. Summit Racing had them in stock and true-to-form... they shipped out of the OH facility and were at my house by Friday night!
Obviously, the tracks are "universal fit" which is a marketing term for "not likely to fit anything you own".
For me, Step 1 was simply squaring-up the track on a scrap of plywood and bolting one down, then based on the width of the u-shaped tubular adjuster place the second track down 100% parallel to the first and figure out all the measurements and existing hole patterns.
The dimensions were pretty odd when taken in English units, so I figured that they must be based on metric (mm) but when converted to metric they still looked like oddball values. Who knows?
Then the head-scratching started.
The driver's seat is still bolted to the factory floor, so that is still available as a "reference seat"... though it was modified to slide MUCH further back than stock (we've discussed this before, I'm not sure why GM didn't allow for maximum possible legroom adjustment) The backrest eventually hits the b-pillar cagework, so that establishes the limits for how far back things can go. With a scrap of 1/2" MDF between the seat and the cage a small buffer space was established. On the passenger side, since there is no floor it's hard to find any kind of index or starting point to build from. Anytime you are trying to build in 3-D space without a good reference point things get tricky and tedious.
The challenge was maximizing the amount of "slide" that the new seat tracks have to make ingress/egress to the back seat area as easy as possible. The new tracks provide approximately 9.25" of adjustment. Since the "all the way back" position was defined by the seatback/cagework, the idea was to make sure that the seat tracks were also "fully back" at the same time. Of course, it starts to hurt your head, because there is flexibility about where to mount the "seat side" of the track, as well as the "floor side" of the track so many different combinations can achieve the same result. The only difference is how much track sticks out the back, and how bizarre the intermediate adapter brackets (the ones that go from the tracks down to the floor mounts) will look.
A full 1:1 scale drawing was necessary.... it just wasn't making sense, and it was important to see all the factory holes in both the Blazer seat, as well as the pre-drilled holes in the Sparco seat rails. Perhaps something would line up???
After studying the combinations for a while, it was decided to install the seat-facing part of the slider as far to the rear of the seat as possible, and in fact the rearmost hole was the only "common" hole shared between the OEM seat and the new rails!
The end-result was a really nice-looking and low-profile seat of modern sliders on a 50-year old seat!!!
Ultimately, the sliders had to be cut-down by about 1.25" to get the fitment perfect... which means that the total "slide" will only be 8" instead of 9". Compromises are all part of the build.
On the floor, some tubework was installed to provide mounting points for the seat. It was also important to avoid welding the tubes directly to the frame since the floor still needs to be installed, and the entire rollcage needs to be removable. So some heavywall DOM vertical slugs were dropped into place and sit on a small 3/4" threaded bung that is permanently welded to the frame below it. This allows the entire system to be locked together once the cage is bolted in, and since this truck doesn't have any body mount bushings anymore... the assembly should be incredibly rigid.
By around 11:30PM last night, it was finally time to drop the seat back down into position and confirm that everything was lining up well. I was pleased to see that the seatback angle was good, the overall height of the passenger seat (as compared to the unmodified drivers seat) was identical and the seat was as far back against the cagework as it can possibly go. It was a "win" all the way around.
So the next step will be to build the intermediate framework that will attach to the bottom of the seat tracks and then weld to those new tubular structures on the floor. The final step will be to dream up some way to pivot the seat forward and design a positive-locking mechanism that will hold the rear seat track area down tight, strong and safe!
-G
Should know more tonight.... but yes, that's the concept.
Keeping the seat tracks up high and underneath the seat should make it easier to build a pivot into the bracketry that connects down to those two transverse tubes near the floor.
The factory seat pivot was pretty lame because it hits the dashpad and doesn't really create much of a "walkthrough", so adding sliders AND a pivot might not improve things at all.
-G
Nice, and it's even perfectly level with the other seat.
I like the seat back angle , looks comfy!
If you really start offroading this truck, I don't see you using those seat for long. There's no bolstering at all. As neat as they are, original and all, you are going to hate them in short order. Also, if you do stick with them, the tilt and driving position look comfy, but offroad position looks terrible lol
Just thinking out loud. The 3 pairs of seats I've had in my truck, the ones I like best are the MasterCraft seats with less tilt and closer to the steering wheel. Still comfy on the street, just not at tilted back "cruiser" like as my past seats. A good trade off though, since sitting upright offroad is important for your back and being able to reach any controls on the dash.
Coming from someone who has built like 101 minus 100 trucks in his life. I know a thing or two minus one
Just thinking out loud. The 3 pairs of seats I've had in my truck, the ones I like best are the MasterCraft seats with less tilt and closer to the steering wheel. Still comfy on the street, just not at tilted back "cruiser" like as my past seats. A good trade off though, since sitting upright offroad is important for your back and being able to reach any controls on the dash.
Coming from someone who has built like 101 minus 100 trucks in his life. I know a thing or two minus one
The seats aren't awful off road. I wheeled an extremely similar seat in my Blazer (73)
Greg look at Jeep CJ flip mechanisms.
That is what your shooting for. They cantilever the seat forward
Greg look at Jeep CJ flip mechanisms.
That is what your shooting for. They cantilever the seat forward
Pass side of my '83 K5 also flips forward. Perfect for back seat access. You might be able to get two pass side setups and reverse one to work on the driver side. It has a deal that mounts in the floor that it hooks to.
Pffff comin from someone without a rig and hasn't driven in how long? Drive the dirt road out of Pritchett`e and all of a sudden you know a thing or two huh?
Pffff comin from someone without a rig and hasn't driven in how long? Drive the dirt road out of Pritchett`e and all of a sudden you know a thing or two huh?
Yah yah yah
I do recall a certain video of Horton falling upside down about 14' and landing on a rock with Eric in there...Pffff comin from someone without a rig and hasn't driven in how long? Drive the dirt road out of Pritchett`e and all of a sudden you know a thing or two huh?
Thats gotta count for Something..! Lol
On another note..... this build amazes me more all the time.... AND them seat sliders give me ideas for mine lol... I have to look em up now
MOAR "FORWARD" SEAT TRACK PROGRESS......!!!
The sliders definitely make a big difference and have a wide-range of adjustment
All-the-way forward:
Top View: All-The-Way forward:
Here's a shot of how the seat normally tilts forward (with the OEM fixed floor mount setup). You can see that the backrest hit the windshield well-before it creates useful passthough space to the backseat area.
The problem is the seat track spacing. The factory seat pan puts the tracks approximately 16" apart from each other, which is normally NOT a problem. But since there is nothing "normal" about this build, there is a 4-speed Atlas where the inside seat rail needs to go!
It's really tight. In this photo my finger is pointing to where the seat track bolt needs to go.... and even though I've extended the transverse seat bar into that area to reach.... it's really NOT a practical solution.
The real solution is to stop trying to create a crazy cantilevered setup to hold the rail over the transfercase...and to do an offset rail mount to the underside of the seat. By moving it inward about 4" the rail can be mounted much more simply and strongly and doesn't interfere with the transfercase, or the ability to someday put a sheetmetal cover over it.
There is a design percolating in my head for a "shackle style" front seat mount that will allow the seat to go further forward than what is shown in the "tilt" photo above. Once the inside rail is relocated and confirmed to work, the attention will shift to building the front mounts with the tilt/shackle mechanism to try that out. No more than 20 hours remain, I assure you!!!
-G
The sliders definitely make a big difference and have a wide-range of adjustment
All-the-way forward:
Top View: All-The-Way forward:
Here's a shot of how the seat normally tilts forward (with the OEM fixed floor mount setup). You can see that the backrest hit the windshield well-before it creates useful passthough space to the backseat area.
The problem is the seat track spacing. The factory seat pan puts the tracks approximately 16" apart from each other, which is normally NOT a problem. But since there is nothing "normal" about this build, there is a 4-speed Atlas where the inside seat rail needs to go!
It's really tight. In this photo my finger is pointing to where the seat track bolt needs to go.... and even though I've extended the transverse seat bar into that area to reach.... it's really NOT a practical solution.
The real solution is to stop trying to create a crazy cantilevered setup to hold the rail over the transfercase...and to do an offset rail mount to the underside of the seat. By moving it inward about 4" the rail can be mounted much more simply and strongly and doesn't interfere with the transfercase, or the ability to someday put a sheetmetal cover over it.
There is a design percolating in my head for a "shackle style" front seat mount that will allow the seat to go further forward than what is shown in the "tilt" photo above. Once the inside rail is relocated and confirmed to work, the attention will shift to building the front mounts with the tilt/shackle mechanism to try that out. No more than 20 hours remain, I assure you!!!
-G
Who says they're not getting upgraded?
I've got a few options in the works.....
The plan was to strip them completely down to the bare frames, bead-blast, repair any damage and then powdercoat the frames and have them built into "suspension seats" using the canvas / paracord techniques that MasterCraft and PRP uses.... or if that's not possible, at least put fresh OEM foam. There is one company reproducing the OEM foam patterns but with a "Tempur-Pedic" memory-style foam that might feel nice. After that, comes the heated/cooled seat components from either Katzkin (which is basically a design stolen from Infinity cars) which uses a Peltier cooler (electric) and small fans to blow hot or cold air through a permeable mat (think Air Hockey Table) on the lower cushion and backrest areas. Then a new set of seatcovers using the originals as a template. Leather on the side bolsters for durability, and the classic Houndstooth fabric inserts to allow the air to pass through for the heating and cooling options.
Failing all of that.... if the "stock" seats don't work at all, I can always swap in a set of aftermarket lowback seats that look close in appearance to factory. Now that the seats will use conventional seat tracks and mounts, doing a swap like that would be child's play...
-G
I've read a few things on using memory foam for seats. And the temp swings can cause the foam to end up hard on cold days and soft on warm days. Houses are fairly even in temps so it doesn't affect beds as much
bp71k5
3/4 ton status
Not sure what you mean by "shackle", but if you can shift the seat forward a bit more and put the rotation axis at the back of the seat so the front of the seat rotates downward (instead of pivoting the back of the seat up from an axis at the front like stock), you may gain enough to room. Not sure if that makes sense without a picture.
