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'72 K5 - Greg's @MightAsWellK5 Build
- Thread starter Greg72
- Start date
This is the build description. I will improve this later. (GB)
bp71k5
3/4 ton status
Just over 8 months before she needs to be roadworthy...
Just over 8 months before she needs to be roadworthy...
The rabbit died?!?!?!?
Oh crap, we've ruined Greg's thread now.
LOOK OUT!!!
Jeebus......I better get ready to welcome folks to Page 11 soon.
This could be a record.
This could be a record.
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2004
- Posts
- 2,647
- Reaction score
- 1,043
Click "User CP"
In the left navigation pane look for: SETTINGS & OPTIONS, Click "Edit Options"...
Scroll Down to the area called Thread Display Options
You'll see a pulldown menu "Number of Posts to Show Per Page"
Set that to 100, and stop wasting the Internet!
Thanks Greg, I feel like a human now
I'm starting to feel let down. I want to see some more sexy blazer pics.
After talking to you yesterday I went back and read the threads I missed, and I have to agree with your recommendations for bxing versus what Greg ended up doing, but to each their own.
When ever I do any welding I prefer if possible to overlap instead of butt welding.
As for the question about priming inside the boxed frame, I need to do more research to find it but in the early 80's I found an add for some foaming product you would spray thru tiny holes you drill every 4 feet to rust proof from the inside, it could spread in a radius of 2 feet so you needed to have it every 4 feet to cover it all.
I don't even know how to begin searching but now that I described it maybe more people can try someone is bound to find it.
I'd love to find a place that could do a galvanize dipping process on something that large... don't even know if such a thing is possible??
I follow this thread irregularly, so this may be too late, but I plan on going this route with mine. This is a old but good thread about galvanizing frames on the chevelle site. If you can get to a place that does it, it is comparatively cheap, and an industrial place can do massive parts
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96218&highlight=galvanized
This one has a location near me, but there are lots of industrial galvanizers.
http://www.nagalv.com/locations_nashville.asp
2010.01.24 - UPDATE! - HELLO....IS THIS THING ON??
Don't make the mistake of assuming that no updates means no progress.
There has been plenty of work going on in the background to move this project along. I have been collecting a few new tools, selling off some unneeded parts to clear space in the shop (and to increase the $$$ in the build budget) and doing a LOT of analysis on the new suspension design that I'll be puting together soon. I can assure you that I've burned hundreds of hours since the last "real" update getting things figured out.
I appreciate everyone's patience, so let's move on to some photos and updates shall we...???
Suspension Design:
Remember that old Excel spreadsheet called "ExcelCAD" that Dan Barcroft (Triaged) and I created back in July 2003? Well, I dusted off the cobwebs and decided to use it to create my new rear 4-link design. In the process, I realized a bunch of limitations of the program and made a ton of improvements to speed up the design work and to allow me to make quick suspension changes and immediately observe the results across a number of different criteria. Here is a screenshot of one of the new worksheet tabs....
This one does a few new things like calculates suspension characteristics based on suspension travel, not just static ride height. In the example, I've selected 6" of bump travel and 10" of droop travel as my design maximums and allowed the program to calculate various criteria for all the travel increments in between -10 in (droop) and +6 (bump) and summarize all those values for me. Things like pinion change throughout travel is a good one...it lets me see how abusive the design will be on the rear u-joints. Also, seeing how the Anti-Squat "gain" looks from full-bump to full-droop gives a good idea of how predictable the suspension will behave. In this case the AS% moves from around 67% at ride height to around 90% under full droop or bump. Not bad. Some of my early variations had wild swings to numbers like 150% A.S. so being able to quickly identify the design elements that affected those numbers let me make quick optimizations.
Here's another shot of a different tab:
This is a more detailed view of the Pinon Change information. In this case, the dashed lines represent the static link positions and I can click the buttons in the left menu area to cycle the suspension up or down. The yellow line represents the amount of pinion change from the static position...so as I cycle the suspension that angle grows larger at either extreme. It's also nice to be able to see if there is more pinion change in one direction than the other (bump vs. droop). In this design, there's about 3-1/2 degrees of change in bump, and very little change at all in droop. Some designs are wildly different on one side of the equation....it really just depends on the link positions and lengths.
One more tab....
This one let's me experiment with different link materials, diameters and wall thicknesses to get an optimized design for strength and safety margin. The biggest changes in this area were that I created 4 "scratch pad" areas where I could build completely different designs side-by-side and immediately see and compare the attributes of each one. Once I have one I like, I just click the little radio button above the desired column and the data in that column is then incorporated into my "offical" design on all the other worksheet tabs. The other major change is that I now have a graphical representation of the tubing, wall thickness and an overlay of the heim joint (the sideways rectangular shapes) to show how well it will fit in the selected material, and how much wall thickness will be left around the heim once the tube is threaded for the heim joint. Cool.
Tool Acquisitions:
One thing that was becoming abundantly clear as I worked on the Mog axle stuff was that I was going to need a SERIOUS amount of torque to break the hub nuts free on those massive drum brakes. The factory spec is 750Lb/ft on the nut and I didn't have anything that rugged in my shop....I also didn't own a 55mm socket that was also needed.
Problem solved!
Then, I got on eBay and found this Snap-On 4X torque multiplier for a decent price to help me get to that lofty torque value I needed. (Can these be safely used with an impact gun or no?
)
Then, a totally unexpected score on the local Craigslist.... A guy was looking to trade-down to a smaller MIG welder. In short-order, I was able to hand over my trusty Lincoln SP-175+ and a little bit of cash for this much nicer Lincoln 255!
Mog 404 Work & Struggles.....
You know what they say about the best laid plans? Well, I was supremely confident about breaking those Mog nuts loose with my new pimpy socket and torque multiplier... but the 404s had other plans, like staying put.
After countless breaker bar setups and attempts, I went for the trick I knew would work, a cutoff wheel on the underside of the bolt to weaken it's hold.
I knew that I wasn't going to be reusing these bolts, so it didn't matter that much....though I was disappointed that I had to resort to such an unsophisticated techinique after buying the "correct" tool for the job.
There are 4 dowel pins holding on a larged knurled cover plate....this is what it looks like once that's removed.
With that cover off, it's possible to remove the massive drum brakes. Unfortunately this is where I'm now stuck again....the hub pictured here is apparently pressed on to the portal gear with about 6-Gazillion Lbs of pressure and requires a special puller to remove it without damage. So until I can locate the correct tool, this part of the project goes back on hold.
While I figure that one out, I thought I could share one quick "prototype" shot with you. This is me trying to get a basic sense of the clearances that I'll have with the suspension design shown in those screenshots at the beginning of this update. The basics look good, but I'll need some serious bracketry on the frame to handle the loads.
The PVC piping I bought for mock-up ended up being more trouble than it was worth, as was trying to create "phony" heim joints to create pivots with....so I called up Evolution Machine in Canada and told them to send me 16 of their bada$$ joints. That was a serious chunk of change, so I'm glad that I'd managed to sell of a few items around the shop to soften the blow.....
Don't make the mistake of assuming that no updates means no progress.
There has been plenty of work going on in the background to move this project along. I have been collecting a few new tools, selling off some unneeded parts to clear space in the shop (and to increase the $$$ in the build budget) and doing a LOT of analysis on the new suspension design that I'll be puting together soon. I can assure you that I've burned hundreds of hours since the last "real" update getting things figured out.
I appreciate everyone's patience, so let's move on to some photos and updates shall we...???
Suspension Design:
Remember that old Excel spreadsheet called "ExcelCAD" that Dan Barcroft (Triaged) and I created back in July 2003? Well, I dusted off the cobwebs and decided to use it to create my new rear 4-link design. In the process, I realized a bunch of limitations of the program and made a ton of improvements to speed up the design work and to allow me to make quick suspension changes and immediately observe the results across a number of different criteria. Here is a screenshot of one of the new worksheet tabs....
This one does a few new things like calculates suspension characteristics based on suspension travel, not just static ride height. In the example, I've selected 6" of bump travel and 10" of droop travel as my design maximums and allowed the program to calculate various criteria for all the travel increments in between -10 in (droop) and +6 (bump) and summarize all those values for me. Things like pinion change throughout travel is a good one...it lets me see how abusive the design will be on the rear u-joints. Also, seeing how the Anti-Squat "gain" looks from full-bump to full-droop gives a good idea of how predictable the suspension will behave. In this case the AS% moves from around 67% at ride height to around 90% under full droop or bump. Not bad. Some of my early variations had wild swings to numbers like 150% A.S. so being able to quickly identify the design elements that affected those numbers let me make quick optimizations.
Here's another shot of a different tab:
This is a more detailed view of the Pinon Change information. In this case, the dashed lines represent the static link positions and I can click the buttons in the left menu area to cycle the suspension up or down. The yellow line represents the amount of pinion change from the static position...so as I cycle the suspension that angle grows larger at either extreme. It's also nice to be able to see if there is more pinion change in one direction than the other (bump vs. droop). In this design, there's about 3-1/2 degrees of change in bump, and very little change at all in droop. Some designs are wildly different on one side of the equation....it really just depends on the link positions and lengths.
One more tab....
This one let's me experiment with different link materials, diameters and wall thicknesses to get an optimized design for strength and safety margin. The biggest changes in this area were that I created 4 "scratch pad" areas where I could build completely different designs side-by-side and immediately see and compare the attributes of each one. Once I have one I like, I just click the little radio button above the desired column and the data in that column is then incorporated into my "offical" design on all the other worksheet tabs. The other major change is that I now have a graphical representation of the tubing, wall thickness and an overlay of the heim joint (the sideways rectangular shapes) to show how well it will fit in the selected material, and how much wall thickness will be left around the heim once the tube is threaded for the heim joint. Cool.
Tool Acquisitions:
One thing that was becoming abundantly clear as I worked on the Mog axle stuff was that I was going to need a SERIOUS amount of torque to break the hub nuts free on those massive drum brakes. The factory spec is 750Lb/ft on the nut and I didn't have anything that rugged in my shop....I also didn't own a 55mm socket that was also needed.
Problem solved!
Then, I got on eBay and found this Snap-On 4X torque multiplier for a decent price to help me get to that lofty torque value I needed. (Can these be safely used with an impact gun or no?
)
Then, a totally unexpected score on the local Craigslist.... A guy was looking to trade-down to a smaller MIG welder. In short-order, I was able to hand over my trusty Lincoln SP-175+ and a little bit of cash for this much nicer Lincoln 255!
Mog 404 Work & Struggles.....
You know what they say about the best laid plans? Well, I was supremely confident about breaking those Mog nuts loose with my new pimpy socket and torque multiplier... but the 404s had other plans, like staying put.
After countless breaker bar setups and attempts, I went for the trick I knew would work, a cutoff wheel on the underside of the bolt to weaken it's hold.
I knew that I wasn't going to be reusing these bolts, so it didn't matter that much....though I was disappointed that I had to resort to such an unsophisticated techinique after buying the "correct" tool for the job.
There are 4 dowel pins holding on a larged knurled cover plate....this is what it looks like once that's removed.
With that cover off, it's possible to remove the massive drum brakes. Unfortunately this is where I'm now stuck again....the hub pictured here is apparently pressed on to the portal gear with about 6-Gazillion Lbs of pressure and requires a special puller to remove it without damage. So until I can locate the correct tool, this part of the project goes back on hold.
While I figure that one out, I thought I could share one quick "prototype" shot with you. This is me trying to get a basic sense of the clearances that I'll have with the suspension design shown in those screenshots at the beginning of this update. The basics look good, but I'll need some serious bracketry on the frame to handle the loads.
The PVC piping I bought for mock-up ended up being more trouble than it was worth, as was trying to create "phony" heim joints to create pivots with....so I called up Evolution Machine in Canada and told them to send me 16 of their bada$$ joints. That was a serious chunk of change, so I'm glad that I'd managed to sell of a few items around the shop to soften the blow.....
StevoandaRedK5
1/2 ton status
sweet progress Greg! like that excel program...
smalltruckbigcid
1/2 ton status
WOW those are $$$$$$ spendy joints
smokes coming out my earholes from that post....
Yeppers.....them's the ones!
The one of the left looks like the Frankenheim. Didn't really need that size, but the one on the right looks like their "Medium" one....I've got 8 of those coming (once they fill the backorder) and another 8 of their "Large" joints... basically one step down from the Frankenheim but a LOT cheaper and easier to fit into the available spaces.
I love the smell of new parts!
The one of the left looks like the Frankenheim. Didn't really need that size, but the one on the right looks like their "Medium" one....I've got 8 of those coming (once they fill the backorder) and another 8 of their "Large" joints... basically one step down from the Frankenheim but a LOT cheaper and easier to fit into the available spaces.
I love the smell of new parts!
think i read the franken was good to like 500,000 psi or some crazy sh*t..... Grave Digger is probably running those!
Yes, I was on the phone with Clay when I was figuring out the order....and he told me that their heims are rated as follows:
Smalls (3/4 shank) = 50,000 psi
Medium (1.25" shank) = 120,000 psi
Large (1.25" shank) = 250,000 psi
Frankenheim (??? shank) = 500,000 psi
They are serious about strength. If you compare those numbers to an Aurora or FK-type heim joint the numbers are substantially higher than the competitors similarly sized ends. Lots more strength and completely rebuildable for about $10 in parts....
To me THAT justifies the higher acquisition costs. When you buy another brand for $50 - $70 and they wear-out, the only option is to throw them away and buy another one for that same price. It doesn't take long for those "cheap joints" to get awfully expensive...
More pics to come (obviously)
Smalls (3/4 shank) = 50,000 psi
Medium (1.25" shank) = 120,000 psi
Large (1.25" shank) = 250,000 psi
Frankenheim (??? shank) = 500,000 psi
They are serious about strength. If you compare those numbers to an Aurora or FK-type heim joint the numbers are substantially higher than the competitors similarly sized ends. Lots more strength and completely rebuildable for about $10 in parts....
To me THAT justifies the higher acquisition costs. When you buy another brand for $50 - $70 and they wear-out, the only option is to throw them away and buy another one for that same price. It doesn't take long for those "cheap joints" to get awfully expensive...
More pics to come (obviously)
supersize75k5
OrganDonorRacing.com
Jeabus
Im wore out even thinking about the mental and physical effort you are using on this project!
Im wore out even thinking about the mental and physical effort you are using on this project!
UPDATE!
A 20 foot stick of 2" .500" wall tubing is NOT easy to lift..... that is all.
Also, a 20 foot stick of 1.5" .375" wall ain't no walk in the park either.
It's going to be a fun day.
A 20 foot stick of 2" .500" wall tubing is NOT easy to lift..... that is all.
Also, a 20 foot stick of 1.5" .375" wall ain't no walk in the park either.
It's going to be a fun day.
sounds like the chopsaws gonna be getting a workout... 
