Engine Cage.... 
CK5
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'72 K5 - Greg's @MightAsWellK5 Build
- Thread starter Greg72
- Start date
This is the build description. I will improve this later. (GB)
K5 Jess
1/2 ton status
Looks like a mighty fine garage u git there! Very clean and tiddy
Has your tub been mostly bare metal this whole time? 
Yep.
It gets media blasted before the bodywork for paint starts...
-G
It gets media blasted before the bodywork for paint starts...
-G
Thank you.
I am firm believer in the journey, and what I've previously called "the process"... The truck is the object of that process, but ultimately I get a lot of satisfaction from being in my workshop, with all of my tools organized with good lighting and music playing in the background.
A good amount of the build is analytical (link design, etc) but an even larger component is right-brain (creative) activity. It is very satisfying to be "in the zone" of that creative process and solving problems in 3D.... Being able to stand back after a couple of hours of effort and see a well-executed solution is tremendously rewarding.
......and on that topic, I have negotiated an official "garage day" for tomorrow (Sunday). I'm not sure what I should tackle with my next 8 hours, so if anyone has any suggestions I'll entertain requests....
-G
Greg do you have a item list to work with?
I find them very useful for organizing in steps, and also to help remember to do things.
Enjoy your garage time!
Dave,
That would be the most depressing thing ever..... It would be longer than Santa's "naughty & nice" list.
Generally, I know the order that things need to happen but when I only get a few hours it feels more urgent to do something "big" with my time... Not sure what that will translate to this morning, but I'm sure once I get in the shop and get into "the zone" the project will reveal itself.
-G
thats the thing about a top to bottom project like that, at most times in the build you have a 1/2 dozen different tasks you can work on at the same time.. choices.. occasionally you really get pidgeon-holed into needing to get one certain thing done tho..
enjoy your day!
I'm going down to organize the dungeon as soon as it heats up in there...
enjoy your day!
I'm going down to organize the dungeon as soon as it heats up in there...
CUCV2
5/4 ton fun
Generally, I know the order that things need to happen but when I only get a few hours it feels more urgent to do something "big" with my time... Not sure what that will translate to this morning, but I'm sure once I get in the shop and get into "the zone" the project will reveal itself.
-G
Having kids changes up the priorities some. It is still important to find a balance of time with family and a time to step away and do something else for a bit. I am at the point where I have a couple days of the week to work in about 3 hour increments on "special projects." Not a lot of time but if you break everything into steps it helps.
That said, my vote is to see your K5 on all fours. As in, putting together your front axle and suspension
.
2012.11.25 - UPDATE! - ENGINE CAGE....
Over the last few weeks, some of the 1st Gen boys have been going back and forth discussing the merits of floating cages vs. solid mounted cages and the effect of "locking out" the body mounts on the overall structure. Previous posts from Mike (NorCal69) and Chad (bigblock72) were rattling around in my head as I found my way into the manspace on Sunday.... After quite a bit of back-and-forth, I had finally decided to jettison my previous idea of a floating body / rigid cage & frame mount for something a lot simpler (and most likely a lot stronger too!)
The rollcage is an integral part of the suspension now, since all of my upper strut mounts will be tied into it. I need to get the body "locked-down" to the frame and start rigidly fixturing all of the extra rollcage parts to the frame itself. The entire sprung weight of the vehicle will now me carried by the rollcage and tubework, so it's important that it be as solid as possible.
The stage was set:
(Hot coffee? Check! Oracle Notebook? Check! Music? Check!)
It took me a while to get back into the groove in the shop, but I pulled the engine cradle out of the overhead storage and decided to drop that back into place on the front of the truck. It's hard to believe that I built it almost 3-1/2 years ago. (July 2009)
Original 2009 design:
It basically fits, but now that the frame is boxed, the lower bolts that pass through the frame will need some adjustment. The bolt wants to pass straight through, but the holes from the boxed frame want the bolt to pass through at an angle, so the bolt head (and nut) don't seat properly anymore. Not a big deal to fix, and it didn't hold up the progress...
I went up into the parts storage area and pulled out the old brake booster setup and parking brake pedal also, and bolted them to the firewall before things went too far. There's nothing worse than fabricating a bunch of beautiful parts only to realize that the design won't allow you to have brakes anymore.
The old engine cradle sat just a touch too high for my liking, so I decided to drop it down about 1" so that the backing plate would work a little better and not be so crowded toward the upper corners of the cowl.
Just like last time (3.5 years ago), I spend a lot of time checking and double-checking all of the dimensions to make sure that the tub and frame were "square" to each other, and that the cage tube was centered from side-to-side also. Once I had that all figured out I was able to do some templating for my tube plates....
The overall look of the plate came out really nice. It's not super "sexy" progress, but I've been out of the shop for so long that I needed something to clear the cobwebs out of my head. It gave me an opportunity to use the plasma cutter and my 20" grinding wheel to really finesse a nice looking plate for each side of the engine cradle.
The nice part of the layout is that I can build a small section of tubing on the inside of the cowl directly behind those plates and join them directly to the a-pillar to lock everything together. And based on the height, the tube will all be completely hidden by the factory dash too...
Here's a final shot of the cage (side profile).... 1" lower than before and with just a slight taper toward the front of the truck for extra "speed".....
That's all for now. I'll see if I can steal some hours in the evening some day this week to drill the holes on the driver's side plate and get it bolted up solid. Then I can re-work the front tubes to match the new height and come up with some sort of "bolt-on" attachment so that the entire cage will still be removeable if I ever need to pull the motor, etc.
Hope you enjoyed it... It was a great therapy day for me!
-G
Over the last few weeks, some of the 1st Gen boys have been going back and forth discussing the merits of floating cages vs. solid mounted cages and the effect of "locking out" the body mounts on the overall structure. Previous posts from Mike (NorCal69) and Chad (bigblock72) were rattling around in my head as I found my way into the manspace on Sunday.... After quite a bit of back-and-forth, I had finally decided to jettison my previous idea of a floating body / rigid cage & frame mount for something a lot simpler (and most likely a lot stronger too!)
The rollcage is an integral part of the suspension now, since all of my upper strut mounts will be tied into it. I need to get the body "locked-down" to the frame and start rigidly fixturing all of the extra rollcage parts to the frame itself. The entire sprung weight of the vehicle will now me carried by the rollcage and tubework, so it's important that it be as solid as possible.
The stage was set:
(Hot coffee? Check! Oracle Notebook? Check! Music? Check!)
It took me a while to get back into the groove in the shop, but I pulled the engine cradle out of the overhead storage and decided to drop that back into place on the front of the truck. It's hard to believe that I built it almost 3-1/2 years ago. (July 2009)
Original 2009 design:
It basically fits, but now that the frame is boxed, the lower bolts that pass through the frame will need some adjustment. The bolt wants to pass straight through, but the holes from the boxed frame want the bolt to pass through at an angle, so the bolt head (and nut) don't seat properly anymore. Not a big deal to fix, and it didn't hold up the progress...
I went up into the parts storage area and pulled out the old brake booster setup and parking brake pedal also, and bolted them to the firewall before things went too far. There's nothing worse than fabricating a bunch of beautiful parts only to realize that the design won't allow you to have brakes anymore.
The old engine cradle sat just a touch too high for my liking, so I decided to drop it down about 1" so that the backing plate would work a little better and not be so crowded toward the upper corners of the cowl.
Just like last time (3.5 years ago), I spend a lot of time checking and double-checking all of the dimensions to make sure that the tub and frame were "square" to each other, and that the cage tube was centered from side-to-side also. Once I had that all figured out I was able to do some templating for my tube plates....
The overall look of the plate came out really nice. It's not super "sexy" progress, but I've been out of the shop for so long that I needed something to clear the cobwebs out of my head. It gave me an opportunity to use the plasma cutter and my 20" grinding wheel to really finesse a nice looking plate for each side of the engine cradle.
The nice part of the layout is that I can build a small section of tubing on the inside of the cowl directly behind those plates and join them directly to the a-pillar to lock everything together. And based on the height, the tube will all be completely hidden by the factory dash too...
Here's a final shot of the cage (side profile).... 1" lower than before and with just a slight taper toward the front of the truck for extra "speed".....
That's all for now. I'll see if I can steal some hours in the evening some day this week to drill the holes on the driver's side plate and get it bolted up solid. Then I can re-work the front tubes to match the new height and come up with some sort of "bolt-on" attachment so that the entire cage will still be removeable if I ever need to pull the motor, etc.
Hope you enjoyed it... It was a great therapy day for me!
-G
So is that tube going to be "in" your radiator?
The work looks great, Greg..
It's awesome to see you in the manspace bending up some tube again and I'm sure writing all of the info to them down in the Oracle.
Two things that I really like. First, is the simple way that you leveled out he cowl. I've been screwing around with an idea like that for awhile now. Come to find out that all I needed was a couple 2x4 scraps.
Second. I sure wish that I had one of those 20" disks. Your plates look so damn nice. You can really get a clean look to those when fabricating them.
Good to see that your locking your body in to the frame. I didn't want to be the only guy on here that may potentially be driving around in a dump truck. This way, I know that if I have problems down the road, you'll come up with an awesome way to fix it. 
Great to see ya back man...
It's awesome to see you in the manspace bending up some tube again and I'm sure writing all of the info to them down in the Oracle.
Two things that I really like. First, is the simple way that you leveled out he cowl. I've been screwing around with an idea like that for awhile now. Come to find out that all I needed was a couple 2x4 scraps.
Second. I sure wish that I had one of those 20" disks. Your plates look so damn nice. You can really get a clean look to those when fabricating them.
Good to see that your locking your body in to the frame. I didn't want to be the only guy on here that may potentially be driving around in a dump truck.
This way, I know that if I have problems down the road, you'll come up with an awesome way to fix it. Great to see ya back man...
Nope. In front.....
As shown previously in post #1862, the radiator tucks in just behind that perimeter tube.
Don't let the core-support brackets fool you. Those don't actually mean much anymore... since the motor was pushed back 3" deeper into the firewall I'm moving the radiator back as well. That leaves me with more room to get a hidden winch in that frontmost frame area.
The front clip sheetmetal isn't going to hang from the core support, it's all going to be welded together to form a 1-piece front end that will probably tilt-forward. I did a tilt-up version a while back (Post #542).... remember this thing?
It worked pretty well but if it ever fell when I was underneath, someone else would need to finish my build thread for me!
-G
As shown previously in post #1862, the radiator tucks in just behind that perimeter tube.
Don't let the core-support brackets fool you. Those don't actually mean much anymore... since the motor was pushed back 3" deeper into the firewall I'm moving the radiator back as well. That leaves me with more room to get a hidden winch in that frontmost frame area.
The front clip sheetmetal isn't going to hang from the core support, it's all going to be welded together to form a 1-piece front end that will probably tilt-forward. I did a tilt-up version a while back (Post #542).... remember this thing?
It worked pretty well but if it ever fell when I was underneath, someone else would need to finish my build thread for me!
-G
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The work looks great, Greg..
It's awesome to see you in the manspace bending up some tube again and I'm sure writing all of the info to them down in the Oracle.
Two things that I really like. First, is the simple way that you leveled out he cowl. I've been screwing around with an idea like that for awhile now. Come to find out that all I needed was a couple 2x4 scraps.
Second. I sure wish that I had one of those 20" disks. Your plates look so damn nice. You can really get a clean look to those when fabricating them.
Good to see that your locking your body in to the frame. I didn't want to be the only guy on here that may potentially be driving around in a dump truck.
Great to see ya back man...
Mike,
LOL, yeah well when the brake booster went back on I couldn't get the level across the tubes anymore without some spacers on it. I've got scrap lumber all over the house (imagine that!?).... I use 2x4 scraps all the time in the manspace. I've probably got 2 dozen stacked up against the wall waiting to be pressed into service.
The 20" grinding disc is the ballz!
I consider myself a pretty patient and meticulous person, but when it comes to building bracketry and dressing the edges with a 4-1/2" flapdisc I could NEVER get that really crisp 90* edge that made the parts look laser-cut or "factory made". With the big grinding disc it's so much easier to do outside curves, flat edges, etc. Just stand in front of that machine for a few minutes and grind down to meet the Sharpie line from the template. Easy peezy... It's a "luxury item" in the shop, but if you ever come across one on Craigslist or eBay and can swing the purchase you won't regret it. EDIT: One other "trick" that I've learned in the past couple of years that helps make fabricated plates look really professional is to touch-up the through-holes with a uni-bit to deburr them. Even a carefully drilled hole ends up with some burrs on it, and can sometimes be just slightly wobbled at the top edge. I throw the uni-bit into my drillpress and run it down to the same hole size as the through-hole.....then go just SLIGHTLY farther (like 1/32" or so) so that the "step" on the bit cuts a perfect bevel into the top of the hole.... it finishes off the part beautifully, and is one of those subtle things that really makes me feel like I'm doing quality work (albeit at a snail's pace most of the time!).
-G
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Awesome Greg!!! I am glad you could get some garage time, where any coupons used?
Actually, those are my screwed-together lumber towers that go underneath my 12-ton jacks for extra height! Now that my truck is resting on it's tires (out back) they have been decommissioned.
Lumber scraps actually go between the wall studs directly below the bolt & nut bins. I'm sure if you scan through all the photos you can find them.
-G
Lumber scraps actually go between the wall studs directly below the bolt & nut bins. I'm sure if you scan through all the photos you can find them.
-G
Actually, those are my screwed-together lumber towers that go underneath my 12-ton jacks for extra height! Now that my truck is resting on it's tires (out back) they have been decommissioned.
Lumber scraps actually go between the wall studs directly below the bolt & nut bins. I'm sure if you scan through all the photos you can find them.
-G
Challenge accepted
I'm sure the lumber scraps are all numbered, with the dimensional information listed and cross referenced in the Oracle notebook...
Stole a few hours tonight and was able to finish up the drivers side bracket. That one was a bit more tricky because the metal in the area was a convoluted shape, so I needed to laminate two pieces of 1/8" plate with recesses in the back side to follow the firewall contours...
Once those were bolted snugly to the firewall I squared up the hoop (side to side) and dropped the level across it to make sure I was at 0.0* across the cowl. And burned it in...
Once the hoop was permanently in place, I dropped a plumb line at the front to confirm the tub was square to the front crossmember. It was off by 1/4"' so I gave the tub a "scientific" shove to make it perfect.
Here's a shot that shows how much narrower the truck will be went it goes into "transformer mode":
Now a trivia question for the 1st Gen guys.... My cowl has a ~3/4" hole drilled between the square fuse block hole and the rectangular hole that the parking brake cable passes through. I don't think its factory but it's been so long that I can't remember if it for some kind of wiring harness or not?
-G
Once those were bolted snugly to the firewall I squared up the hoop (side to side) and dropped the level across it to make sure I was at 0.0* across the cowl. And burned it in...
Once the hoop was permanently in place, I dropped a plumb line at the front to confirm the tub was square to the front crossmember. It was off by 1/4"' so I gave the tub a "scientific" shove to make it perfect.
Here's a shot that shows how much narrower the truck will be went it goes into "transformer mode":
Now a trivia question for the 1st Gen guys.... My cowl has a ~3/4" hole drilled between the square fuse block hole and the rectangular hole that the parking brake cable passes through. I don't think its factory but it's been so long that I can't remember if it for some kind of wiring harness or not?
-G
