I see the combined skid as a big fat headache. I cringe having to drop my skid with just 6 bolts and having it by itself. I couldn't imagine having to pull the suspension apart to do it
CK5
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'72 K5 - Greg's @MightAsWellK5 Build
- Thread starter Greg72
- Start date
This is the build description. I will improve this later. (GB)
So let be the naysayer.
While kind of cool that you could do that. I really don't think that it is anything that will actually help you wheeling.
I also don't like the fact that it can move, cause well it can move. I have seen my fair share of broken ( very well built) link mounts. Sometimes its just crazy to see something break like that.
So while cool from an experimental and knowledge aspect, I think its just adding another break point. Which even with all the cool stuff you have done you haven't really added to many additional break points on this rig and have actually eliminated a few of them with the mog axles.
I just see it as another break point that won't really help much with actual wheeling
Carry on
Eric, I can certainly appreciate what you are saying... no argument, there are simpler ways to build a truck and I generally subscribe to that philosophy. This is one of those areas where I just don't see all that much risk in giving it a try. I'm adding one extra (massive!) pivot bolt to what would otherwise be just a conventional set of converged link mounts. If anything is going to break on this truck it's NOT going to be that bolt.... I feel quite comfortable putting money down on that one.
The motivation for this is quite simple: I just want to be able to experiment in real-time with anti-squat and feel for myself just how drastic changes in AS% affect the truck's performance when all other attributes are unchanged. As a learning tool, I find it incredibly useful... It's one thing for me to play with Excel for hours (hundreds of hours actually) and intellectualize how a suspension should behave. It's quite another to apply a principle (like AS%) in the real-world and see if it truly improves the climbing ability of the truck on an obstacle where I'd previously been "denied"... I do think it's a good idea to build my bracket in a way that allows me to put a couple of large bolts into it to lock the entire assembly at my preferred AS% value in case there was ever a failure of the adjuster lever/knob/hydraulic ram/glitter-rod, etc. As I've said before.... there is a fine line between genius and stupidity, and I've been known to drift over into that abyss from time to time. 
History will decide if this was a good idea, or a complete waste of time and effort.Serviceability is going to be a challenge no matter what. My front and rear links land only about 14" to 18" away from each other on the frame....so regardless of how carefully I build the cross-members, the Atlas is NEVER going to be removed from the underside of the truck. I'll be using a cherry picker to lift it out from the access cover between the seats like a lot of other guys do. Skidplate or not.... servicing the Atlas (if it ever needs it) is going to be a big job. In the grand scheme of things, I'll benefit much more frequently from a massive skidplate than from using small cross-members that allow me to reach the Atlas from underneath.
-G
454Sub
5/8 ton status
Serviceability is going to be a challenge no matter what. My front and rear links land only about 14" to 18" away from each other on the frame....so regardless of how carefully I build the cross-members, the Atlas is NEVER going to be removed from the underside of the truck. I'll be using a cherry picker to lift it out from the access cover between the seats like a lot of other guys do. Skidplate or not.... servicing the Atlas (if it ever needs it) is going to be a big job. In the grand scheme of things, I'll benefit much more frequently from a massive skidplate than from using small cross-members that allow me to reach the Atlas from underneath.
This is a very valid point. If you are already dove in knowing well in advance you want to pull the Atlas out from the top then what your doing is best. And in all reality, t-cases does not need servicing till something implodes. As long as you can drain and refill the lube easy enough the rest is just part of the toy. And Im certain the cost of the Atlas case should you break it from lack of skids is far more painful than the cost of removing a center inspection hump and pulling it from the top. I think your moving in the right direction and the build is awesome.
This is a very valid point. If you are already dove in knowing well in advance you want to pull the Atlas out from the top then what your doing is best. And in all reality, t-cases does not need servicing till something implodes. As long as you can drain and refill the lube easy enough the rest is just part of the toy. And Im certain the cost of the Atlas case should you break it from lack of skids is far more painful than the cost of removing a center inspection hump and pulling it from the top. I think your moving in the right direction and the build is awesome.
2013.10.12 - UPDATE - FOR SALE: ONE REALLY LARGE BOLT....
Well..... That was fun while it lasted.
Last night I invested another few hours into the "adjustable antisquat" bracket idea, but it's just going nowhere fast. After roughly 30 hours spent trying to get something rendered in foamcore, it's time to throw in the towel and admit defeat..... At least for the time being.
The reality is that the monolith is a completely "bolt on" assembly so if I decide that I absolutely can't live without this feature later on the entire thing can be removed and replaced with a "version 2" that has the adjustable link feature.
Ultimately, it's just becoming a huge sinkhole of time and I have bigger fish to fry these days.
-G
Well..... That was fun while it lasted.
Last night I invested another few hours into the "adjustable antisquat" bracket idea, but it's just going nowhere fast. After roughly 30 hours spent trying to get something rendered in foamcore, it's time to throw in the towel and admit defeat..... At least for the time being.
The reality is that the monolith is a completely "bolt on" assembly so if I decide that I absolutely can't live without this feature later on the entire thing can be removed and replaced with a "version 2" that has the adjustable link feature.
Ultimately, it's just becoming a huge sinkhole of time and I have bigger fish to fry these days.
-G
I like the idea of the Kingpin suspension. I had a dream once about a kingpin suspension it was a little different.
Imagine a skateboard truck and the kingpin bolt is vertical. As you tighten the bolts the bushing gets tighter, and the steering ability changes.
If you apply this to a truck you can tighten or loosen the kingpin to raise or lower your AS%.
I wanted this to work. You are way closer than if you never tried.
Imagine a skateboard truck and the kingpin bolt is vertical. As you tighten the bolts the bushing gets tighter, and the steering ability changes.
If you apply this to a truck you can tighten or loosen the kingpin to raise or lower your AS%.
I wanted this to work. You are way closer than if you never tried.
TheBeast_88K5
Banned
Dropped by this thread to see the bolt. (I know.) 
2013.10.14 - UPDATE! - THE MONOLITH LIVES!!!
Yes... it's alive.
Sorta.
I really wanted to get the adjustable anti-squat thing to work, but it was simply gobbling up too many hours and even as stubborn as I am it was hard to justify spending more time and effort on it. So I prepped the workspace on Saturday evening.....cleaned up and staged all my materials so that I'd be able to jump right in on Sunday morning for a day of solid progress. Here's how things went.....
Working off my foamcore template, I decided to first install the side plates and get the hole positions established to mount it. It worked out that there are several factory frame holes that are in the area where this crossmember will go, so instead of drilling new holes I decided to re-use what was already there...
Once I had the sideplates bolted in, I took a careful measurement of the space between the plates and cut out the main flat section of the crossmember. I typically get my 1/4 steel in 24" x 36" sheets, and to make this part I used almost the entire sheet. It ended up at 28" x 24"..... and yes, it's pretty heavy.
I spent quite a bit of time making sure the part was 100% square, and then marked an accurate centerline, and began the process of transferring all of my dimensions from the foamcore template to the steel. It took a number of hours to do it, but ultimately it's VERY important that these first few parts are perfect. If these are slightly "off", everything that follows will get worse and worse and the fitments will be lousy.
There was a lot of back-and-forth as I moved from my original template to the new steel for layout. Double and triple-checking the angles and dimensions was time consuming but necessary.
After several hours, I had the sheet completely marked, and had all of the necessary cutouts completed. This would serve as the base where each new piece of the puzzle would be assembled...
Believe it or not, even 1/4" steel will warp when it's cut with a plasma. Sometimes it's got a slight warp in it from the start. Either way, you can't just slap the pieces against each other and expect the gaps to be perfect. There is some fiddling required to get things nice and tight prior to tack-welding...
I built the side plates, and the two main lateral support pieces first and wanted to do a sanity check before going much further. So I summoned up all the power I could muster (more Wheaties will be necessary to complete this part of the build!) and hauled the structure under the truck for a test-fitting...
The basic clearances all looked good. I put the rear links up on the "shelf" just to get a feel for how they would look. Obviously they are will converge more closely once the brackets are fully-built.
Here's the "money shot"...... A perfectly FLAT bellypan to hold all my suspension bits!!!
In this view, you can see that the main plate is actually 1" higher than the side rails. I mentioned before that I wanted to create a small amount of clearance for myself between the crossmember and the actual skidplate (which will install on the underside of the framerails directly)... in this way I can smash on rocks as needed and have just a bit of "flex" of the skidplate without transferring every impact up into the Atlas directly. I haven't decided what sort of material I will ultimately use for the skidplate...some guys use thick "AR" (Abrasion Resistant) steel and some guys use UHMWPE (cutting board) material.... I'll have to decide on that later on.
Final shot of the night:
Because I wanted the link mounts to be tightly integrated into the crossmember and other bracing, some of the invidual shapes are quite fussy to build. I managed to get the transmission/Atlas mount shapes built and loosely in place, and then started working on the heim pockets for the front lower links.... that took me to almost midnight last night, so I took a few pics and called it quits.
Tonight should be more of the same.... though now I'm building most brackets in "pairs" so once I get a bracket figured out, it's usually MUCH faster to trace the shape and cut out the second one.
-G
Yes... it's alive.
Sorta.
I really wanted to get the adjustable anti-squat thing to work, but it was simply gobbling up too many hours and even as stubborn as I am it was hard to justify spending more time and effort on it. So I prepped the workspace on Saturday evening.....cleaned up and staged all my materials so that I'd be able to jump right in on Sunday morning for a day of solid progress. Here's how things went.....
Working off my foamcore template, I decided to first install the side plates and get the hole positions established to mount it. It worked out that there are several factory frame holes that are in the area where this crossmember will go, so instead of drilling new holes I decided to re-use what was already there...
Once I had the sideplates bolted in, I took a careful measurement of the space between the plates and cut out the main flat section of the crossmember. I typically get my 1/4 steel in 24" x 36" sheets, and to make this part I used almost the entire sheet. It ended up at 28" x 24"..... and yes, it's pretty heavy.
I spent quite a bit of time making sure the part was 100% square, and then marked an accurate centerline, and began the process of transferring all of my dimensions from the foamcore template to the steel. It took a number of hours to do it, but ultimately it's VERY important that these first few parts are perfect. If these are slightly "off", everything that follows will get worse and worse and the fitments will be lousy.
There was a lot of back-and-forth as I moved from my original template to the new steel for layout. Double and triple-checking the angles and dimensions was time consuming but necessary.
After several hours, I had the sheet completely marked, and had all of the necessary cutouts completed. This would serve as the base where each new piece of the puzzle would be assembled...
Believe it or not, even 1/4" steel will warp when it's cut with a plasma. Sometimes it's got a slight warp in it from the start. Either way, you can't just slap the pieces against each other and expect the gaps to be perfect. There is some fiddling required to get things nice and tight prior to tack-welding...
I built the side plates, and the two main lateral support pieces first and wanted to do a sanity check before going much further. So I summoned up all the power I could muster (more Wheaties will be necessary to complete this part of the build!
) and hauled the structure under the truck for a test-fitting...
The basic clearances all looked good. I put the rear links up on the "shelf" just to get a feel for how they would look. Obviously they are will converge more closely once the brackets are fully-built.
Here's the "money shot"...... A perfectly FLAT bellypan to hold all my suspension bits!!!
In this view, you can see that the main plate is actually 1" higher than the side rails. I mentioned before that I wanted to create a small amount of clearance for myself between the crossmember and the actual skidplate (which will install on the underside of the framerails directly)... in this way I can smash on rocks as needed and have just a bit of "flex" of the skidplate without transferring every impact up into the Atlas directly. I haven't decided what sort of material I will ultimately use for the skidplate...some guys use thick "AR" (Abrasion Resistant) steel and some guys use UHMWPE (cutting board) material.... I'll have to decide on that later on.
Final shot of the night:
Because I wanted the link mounts to be tightly integrated into the crossmember and other bracing, some of the invidual shapes are quite fussy to build. I managed to get the transmission/Atlas mount shapes built and loosely in place, and then started working on the heim pockets for the front lower links.... that took me to almost midnight last night, so I took a few pics and called it quits.
Tonight should be more of the same.... though now I'm building most brackets in "pairs" so once I get a bracket figured out, it's usually MUCH faster to trace the shape and cut out the second one.
-G
Nice Greg thats gonna be ummmm beefy LOL
Kind of glad you went away from the adjustable AS stuff. I racked my brain for a while to try to come up with something that I thought would work and everything I came up with was way complicated. One idea would have cost about a grand to get done
Anyhoo on the skidplate with as heavy as your truck is gonna be I would use 3/8 plate and then put a 1/4 thick peice of umwhhppppwppppp or whatever it is on the bottom of it.
One other thing, that you have probably already though of, you need to drill drain holes in quite a few places. Your gonna get a ton of crap up there. I might even put holes in the floor and put seals in them above some of the little sections so everything doesnt' have to come down to clean it
Kind of glad you went away from the adjustable AS stuff. I racked my brain for a while to try to come up with something that I thought would work and everything I came up with was way complicated. One idea would have cost about a grand to get done
Anyhoo on the skidplate with as heavy as your truck is gonna be I would use 3/8 plate and then put a 1/4 thick peice of umwhhppppwppppp or whatever it is on the bottom of it.
One other thing, that you have probably already though of, you need to drill drain holes in quite a few places. Your gonna get a ton of crap up there. I might even put holes in the floor and put seals in them above some of the little sections so everything doesnt' have to come down to clean it
Speeeeeeeeedddddd Holes....
Make truck go fast.
Adds as many HP as stickers.
Actually, you could do stickers AND speed holes...
-- A
Shoooooooooot. The only monolith part of that thing is the bottom side. Killer work as usual.
y5mgisi
1 ton status
Pretty dern bad ass.
Speeeeeeeeedddddd Holes....
Make truck go fast.
Hey now--I take offense to that statement.
Speeeeeeeeedddddd Holes....
Make truck go fast.
Noooo.... 502 make truck go fast. And im betting greg will be very happy he put that motor in after putting so much steel in this rig.
That setup looks great greg. I love watching you take foam board and build it into reality so fast.
Lov'n the flat bottom! That worked out so nice! 
The time you have spent is well worth it!
The time you have spent is well worth it!
Awesome work of art/truck design.
the one thing that really makes me insanely jealous is not your pretty little flat belly. Its those damn driveshafts. So high and out of the way
Hey now--I take offense to that statement.
Well, all I've got is stickers and rust holes, so what do I know?
-- A
So many PROUDS..... Thanks guys!
The visual of the flat belly pan was definitely a big thrill, but there's more to it than that.... As Eric noticed, EVERYTHING is tucked up nicely..... The lower links are nice and shallow (something like an 8* angle up to the lower frameside mounts) and the combination of a portal axle and high-pinion 3rd member gets those vulnerable driveshafts WAY up and out of the way too.
I burned the midnight oil again last night.... Once I get to a real computer in the next couple of hours I'll post up some fresh pics for you guys.
-G
The visual of the flat belly pan was definitely a big thrill, but there's more to it than that.... As Eric noticed, EVERYTHING is tucked up nicely..... The lower links are nice and shallow (something like an 8* angle up to the lower frameside mounts) and the combination of a portal axle and high-pinion 3rd member gets those vulnerable driveshafts WAY up and out of the way too.
I burned the midnight oil again last night.... Once I get to a real computer in the next couple of hours I'll post up some fresh pics for you guys.
-G
