It's possible that I don't have a great track record at estimating my work.
This build was originally projected to be finished in 2 years. So there's that....
I had a $$$ estimate way back then also.... I won't even go there.
-G
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'72 K5 - Greg's @MightAsWellK5 Build
- Thread starter Greg72
- Start date
This is the build description. I will improve this later. (GB)
It's possible that I don't have a great track record at estimating my work.
This build was originally projected to be finished in 2 years. So there's that....
I had a $$$ estimate way back then also.... I won't even go there.
-G
bp71k5
3/4 ton status
I was able to shrink with a mapp torch. I thought it worked better than the shrinking disc. Just heat the center of the high spot up really fast about the size of a nickel, then give it a good tap down with a wide faced hammer. Then a cold wet rag goes on to cool it as fast as possible.
I also recommend painting/priming with even with an inexpensive HVLP gun. And I wouldn't recommend planning on sanding out runs or orange peel. It can be done, but it comes out better if you put it on smooth in the first place. Then you know the coating thickness is consistant.
I also recommend painting/priming with even with an inexpensive HVLP gun. And I wouldn't recommend planning on sanding out runs or orange peel. It can be done, but it comes out better if you put it on smooth in the first place. Then you know the coating thickness is consistant.
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MAPP comes in between Acetylene and Propane as far as heat energy goes. A hot flame that is adjusted for a sharp focus should heat body sheet to cherry red in seconds...then what Brian said. A soaking wet rag is a good heat remover.
You need a CK5 get together party. The last one we had at Dean's place his truck was a cab on a frame with a BBC resting on the mounts. By Sunday morning we had his truck complete and doing burnouts. Nothing better than 6 or 7 of your friends all pulling the same direction on your project...shit happens in a hurry! I think Dean got dizzy trying to keep on top of all that was going on at the same time.
The hard part is finding 6 or 7 friends with your dedication to the details....
You need a CK5 get together party. The last one we had at Dean's place his truck was a cab on a frame with a BBC resting on the mounts. By Sunday morning we had his truck complete and doing burnouts. Nothing better than 6 or 7 of your friends all pulling the same direction on your project...shit happens in a hurry! I think Dean got dizzy trying to keep on top of all that was going on at the same time.
The hard part is finding 6 or 7 friends with your dedication to the details....
Yes you can shrink with a map, just want to keep the flame very tight, I typically use a electric dent puller, keep a bucket of water and rag next to me, shrink away, you do it with a hammer and dolly but heat works better/faster when done correctly, especially when you have a oil can situation IMHO.
I use sata and devilbliss, I prefer the Sata's but they're 750$ish, I'm not sure what the devilbliss cost. You want to get the expoxy down as good as possible, it sucks to sand. Dp90 is one of my favorites, bites really hard and isn't to terrible to sand, but flows really nice, easy to use. You'll have high build primers after that to sand your heart out with. Tip size will be your most important factor.
It takes about 1500 man hours to build a pro-touring type muscle car start to finish. Your like half way there, you got plenty of time!
I use sata and devilbliss, I prefer the Sata's but they're 750$ish, I'm not sure what the devilbliss cost. You want to get the expoxy down as good as possible, it sucks to sand. Dp90 is one of my favorites, bites really hard and isn't to terrible to sand, but flows really nice, easy to use. You'll have high build primers after that to sand your heart out with. Tip size will be your most important factor.
It takes about 1500 man hours to build a pro-touring type muscle car start to finish. Your like half way there, you got plenty of time!
superbuickguy
1/2 ton status
hammer and dolly stretches, heat shrinks. That said, I never, ever get metal to red when I'm doing shrinking work - as the person who taught me said, if you can see it change color, you've already 'f'ed' up. Here's the deal of what I'm saying. When you shape metal, you anneal it so that the metal softens to allow a new shape to be rolled into it. As you work it, it gets harder - when you've moving out dents, most times just getting to the anneal temp is more then enough if you push the dent. Heat is work hardening like the shaping process only much, much faster. Those dents, get to 400 degrees and see if you can push them out or tap them out with a soft hammer.
Air tanks. You've a square, back bumper. why not cap it and make it your tank? C3 Corvettes vacuum tank is also the front bumper....
Air tanks. You've a square, back bumper. why not cap it and make it your tank? C3 Corvettes vacuum tank is also the front bumper....
I'm pretty sure he plans on putting a stock bumper on it (although braced significantly), but that said, you are correct in that he has any number of voids all over that he could potentially cap and turn into a tank.
IR guns are so cheap these days it might be fun to set one up on a tripod near the dent so I could easily see how hot the MAPP torch is getting things...
-G
I heat my spots till they glow red, granted with electric it's almost instant, size about 1/4-3/8" depending what I need to move or tighten
I learned from my father inlaw, he's been body man for 30 years.
I learned from my father inlaw, he's been body man for 30 years.
@Deuling: Looks cool!I'm going to try to ignore it... which isn't easy to do.
-G
Its pretty tight. But when you flatten it out all the way, there is a tiny bit of bow in it and I tend to use a good straight edge instead.
But for a lot of smaller hole layout, it is such an awesome time saver.
Great tool in the aircraft industry. Those guys drill alot of holes.
superbuickguy
1/2 ton status
I'm adequate at doing metal shaping - but one thing I know for absolute sure, there is far more artistry to making metal move then science. The guy who taught me was watching me a couple years after he showed me the basics - and he just stared.... which made me more then a bit concerned but fortunately, magic happened and it turned out like I wanted. He commented "I'd have never believed what you did was possible had I not just watched it" he's been moving metal for nearly 50 years... I'll admit my biggest failure is seeing the metal go away from me and not putting it down and walking away.... I keep screwing with it until it's totally hashed... heat soak is my nemesis.
I can absolutely see where it can become worthless. I've seen me do it. Hahah.
What I learned and how I learned is for body repairs, where your trying to bring down a ridge or fix a oil can problem after youve pulled it and hammer and dollied.
Creating panels is a completely different animal full of black magic and voodoo. Hah
What I learned and how I learned is for body repairs, where your trying to bring down a ridge or fix a oil can problem after youve pulled it and hammer and dollied.
Creating panels is a completely different animal full of black magic and voodoo. Hah
I ordered the Metal Bumping book.... a MAPP Torch, and an IR Temperature Gun.
With a little bit of effort, I'll figure out a process that works for me. Thanks for all the good tips everyone.
Also ordered the Aeromotive Dual-redundant InTank Fuel Pump assembly.... gotta start working my list and gather the parts that are keeping me from making forward progress!!!
-G
With a little bit of effort, I'll figure out a process that works for me. Thanks for all the good tips everyone.
Also ordered the Aeromotive Dual-redundant InTank Fuel Pump assembly.... gotta start working my list and gather the parts that are keeping me from making forward progress!!!
-G
Hope you getting that hours list together means more updates!
AIR TANK / COMPRESSOR / FILL-RATE QUESTION:
Has anyone come across documentation that allows you to figure out fill speeds for tires based on an air compressors SCFM?
I found a super-old link here on CK5 written by @pseudomike that seems to take the question at least 1/2 way toward answering my question:
https://ck5.com/forums/threads/how-many-gallons-of-air-does-a-tire-hold.248089/
Basically I can use that to calculate the volume of air required to fill 4 tires of a given size, but the next question is how to factor in the SCFM of the air compressor (which can be a very impressive number, but drops off as PSI increases)... and then finally to calculate the benefit of adding the storage tank which typically is only holding air at around 100 -120psi. Nowhere near as impressive as CO2 tanks which are pressurized to over 2000psi.
My gut tells me that the value of a typical 2-Gallon air tank is minimal for filling tires, because it's effective pressure drops quickly to the point where it's below the target tire pressure anyway. The real magic seems to be in having an air compressor that has a very good SCFM at the kinds of operating pressures that you will need to fill tires.
My question isn't about component selection (YET).... really it's just how to do the maths so I can figure out how long it will take to fill 4 tires from say 10psi - 25psi given a particular SCFM, and what effect the air tank will have on that fill time (if any).
Ideas?
-G
Has anyone come across documentation that allows you to figure out fill speeds for tires based on an air compressors SCFM?
I found a super-old link here on CK5 written by @pseudomike that seems to take the question at least 1/2 way toward answering my question:
https://ck5.com/forums/threads/how-many-gallons-of-air-does-a-tire-hold.248089/
Basically I can use that to calculate the volume of air required to fill 4 tires of a given size, but the next question is how to factor in the SCFM of the air compressor (which can be a very impressive number, but drops off as PSI increases)... and then finally to calculate the benefit of adding the storage tank which typically is only holding air at around 100 -120psi. Nowhere near as impressive as CO2 tanks which are pressurized to over 2000psi.
My gut tells me that the value of a typical 2-Gallon air tank is minimal for filling tires, because it's effective pressure drops quickly to the point where it's below the target tire pressure anyway. The real magic seems to be in having an air compressor that has a very good SCFM at the kinds of operating pressures that you will need to fill tires.
My question isn't about component selection (YET).... really it's just how to do the maths so I can figure out how long it will take to fill 4 tires from say 10psi - 25psi given a particular SCFM, and what effect the air tank will have on that fill time (if any).
Ideas?
-G
Put a engine mounted York or similar and a small tank and call it good
Go big...weighs a little but you will never have to worry about enough air.
I have the ARB twin compressor with a 5 gallon tank. The compressor maintains the system at 150psi. I have a regulator on the line I use for airing up tires set to 90psi. I don't get far into airing up the first 37" tire and the compressor kicks on and is running from then until I finish. It may take a little longer to fill all 4 tires than it did with the CO2, but not by much. I think the one time I timed it, it was about 2min-30sec per tire to fill from 12psi to 30psi.AIR TANK / COMPRESSOR / FILL-RATE QUESTION:
Has anyone come across documentation that allows you to figure out fill speeds for tires based on an air compressors SCFM?
I found a super-old link here on CK5 written by @pseudomike that seems to take the question at least 1/2 way toward answering my question:
https://ck5.com/forums/threads/how-many-gallons-of-air-does-a-tire-hold.248089/
Basically I can use that to calculate the volume of air required to fill 4 tires of a given size, but the next question is how to factor in the SCFM of the air compressor (which can be a very impressive number, but drops off as PSI increases)... and then finally to calculate the benefit of adding the storage tank which typically is only holding air at around 100 -120psi. Nowhere near as impressive as CO2 tanks which are pressurized to over 2000psi.
My gut tells me that the value of a typical 2-Gallon air tank is minimal for filling tires, because it's effective pressure drops quickly to the point where it's below the target tire pressure anyway. The real magic seems to be in having an air compressor that has a very good SCFM at the kinds of operating pressures that you will need to fill tires.
My question isn't about component selection (YET).... really it's just how to do the maths so I can figure out how long it will take to fill 4 tires from say 10psi - 25psi given a particular SCFM, and what effect the air tank will have on that fill time (if any).
Ideas?
-G
In thinking back on filling tires, I think the needle generally holds about 40-60psi while I'm filling. Disclaimer being I don't know if the pressure on the dial at the inflator is accurate while filling.
Sorry I don't have math numbers but I thought maybe some real world experience would help process the numbers.
The York will run air tools without a tank.
The math has been done the research has been done. No need to waste time on figuring out any thing but where to mount the tank.
I am helping you save time
The math has been done the research has been done. No need to waste time on figuring out any thing but where to mount the tank.
I am helping you save time
superbuickguy
1/2 ton status
Yep this - the York compressor puts out 12.3 CFM against the 2-3 CFM of the electric compressors, the tank on a York system is basically a surge tank. Time.... 15 minutes to air up 38.5s from 7 psi to 30 psi. Compared to 30 minutes (or much much more) for any electric compressor.
I have a York on my FJ40 (that I detailed on my suburban build), I have twin Viair compressors (444s) on my H3 Hummer, before that I had a single (name escapes me - it was red) compressor that took dinner to fill 4 tires... of course, then the smoke escaped and it didn't work again.
Something I think you're not asking - heat - the more a compressor has to work, the more heat it creates to the point where it will no longer work at all. With small tires, an electric air compressor is fine but the larger and the more numerous the tires the slower it will go until it finally stops because it's too hot. Volume is everything, time really isn't because 15 vs. 30 minutes isn't that big of a deal at the end of a trail when you need to inspect your vehicle for road-worthiness and/or help others get things stowed and ready for driving down the highway.
I have a 2 gallon tank on my york system for 2 reasons - first to provide surge protection. Also to mount the controller, the safety valve, and also provide a place for moisture to fall out of the air.
