'85 K5 "Denali" Blazer: Front 4-link

[Conner]

Got the passenger side reinforcement plates on. Have a few little things to do like clean up the spatter, etc. I may also go back and clean up some of the worse looking welds. I think I finally got the hang of the upside down welds (like on the bottom edge of the plate) but the earlier ones I did look kinda bad.

 

[ABH Customs]

Wow, great build thread! Came here looking to see how those headers fit, I am in desperate need! Looks like plenty of clearance? My K5 is The Hellcat Blazer if interested excited for this one!!

 

[Conner]

Wow, great build thread! Came here looking to see how those headers fit, I am in desperate need! Looks like plenty of clearance? My K5 is The Hellcat Blazer if interested excited for this one!!

Thanks man! I’ve been following along your build too, and definitely admiring it! Jealous that yours is drivable LOL.

Yes, the headers have pretty good clearance. I didn’t have to modify anything at all to fit them. I think they are a little tighter to the frame rail on the passenger side than the driver side, but again both sides fit fine. I don’t have my full exhaust built yet, but I do have the included small post-header sections attached to the headers via the v-bands, and it all clears the transmission fine. I don’t have my column shifter linkage in yet, but I just double checked and it looks like it will all fit in there fine, with minor modification worst-case.

Hope that helps, if you need anything more specific I’m happy to check, take pics, measure, etc. For reference in case you didn’t see, these are Speed Engineering short tubes, on a Gen IV LS, 6L80, and using ORD LS swap motor mounts in the bolt holes that are supposedly the factory location.

Thanks again and good luck with your engine swap, I will be following along!

 

[ABH Customs]

Thanks man! I’ve been following along your build too, and definitely admiring it! Jealous that yours is drivable LOL.

When I built it, I was doing classic/custom work on my own schedule full-time, so I was able to put work in almost every day. I miss that lol

Hope that helps, if you need anything more specific I’m happy to check, take pics, measure, etc. For reference in case you didn’t see, these are Speed Engineering short tubes, on a Gen IV LS, 6L80, and using ORD LS swap motor mounts in the bolt holes that are supposedly the factory location.

Thanks again and good luck with your engine swap, I will be following along!

Very helpful, thanks a lot. My K5 was a coast truck (I'm in Oregon) so it also has a fair amount of rust sprinkled throughout. I'll be in your shoes whenever I decide to tackle that beast, probably when it's warmer and during/after I fab a cage. I am not excited for it, I even considered finding a clean shell to swap to avoid it all

 

[Conner]

Very helpful, thanks a lot. My K5 was a coast truck (I'm in Oregon) so it also has a fair amount of rust sprinkled throughout. I'll be in your shoes whenever I decide to tackle that beast, probably when it's warmer and during/after I fab a cage. I am not excited for it, I even considered finding a clean shell to swap to avoid it all

Yeah the rust repair is kinda a beat down unfortunately. Not sure if you’ve ever done any of it before, but it’s not bad in small doses. The problem is even small areas end up taking forever to fix correctly. But it’s not actually that hard, just time consuming.

I took hundreds of pictures throughout my repairs, obviously most of which never got posted here just because of the sheer volume. But I have pics of not only the process, but also how the factory panels overlap/interweave. So same for that stuff: if you need any detailed pics because the area(s) on your truck is too rotted out to be able to tell how it originally was, I’m happy to send anything I have.

From what I can tell, yours is much cleaner than mine was though, so I’m sure you’ll have to knocked out quick!

 

[Conner]

I think I have all the little stuff done in preparation for the front suspension.

Bought and installed a Sanden 709 compressor.



Also installed my new (to me) steering column I purchased a while back, along with the new steering shaft, brake pedal assembly, and brake booster/master cylinder. In fact in the next pic you can see the brake pedal on the floor, because I forgot it went in before the column, so I had to take it back out





I had some concerns that the 1.5" ORD tie rod I bought would interfere with my planned beefier-than-stock diff cover, plus I wanted to get my eyeballs on the inside of the front diff to make sure it looked okay (at least rebuildable) before I welded the 4-link brackets to it. So I went ahead and installed the tie rod (loosely) and bought a Motobilt diff cover for a front 10 bolt.

The inside of my diff was pretty sludgy, but nothing about the housing looked bad (I will put all new guts in it). I also confirmed that the Motobilt diff cover has plenty of clearance to the 1.5" ORD tie rod, even when the wheels are turned completely to the passenger side, which is where the clearance is smallest.

I had trouble searching for anyone that had successfully used that combo of parts before trying it myself, so for the sake of search-ability: Motobilt 10 bolt front diff cover and Offroad Design heavy duty tie rods play well together. In my case the knuckles I have are "nut up", but from what I can tell the "nut down" knuckles would work fine too unless those are shaped significantly differently.

 

[Babaganoosh]

That is a nice cover, might have to get one of those.

 

[Conner]

So the plan for the suspension is to do it at the local high school shop that my brother-in-law teaches auto tech at. I'm waiting on space at the shop to open up (his '86 K-10 is getting an LQ9 swap at the moment LOL).

In the meantime, I'm trying to get anything and everything done that I can, such as spray weld-through primer on many of the 4-link kit parts, clean all the random stuff out of the truck, etc.

Got a fun one done today: swapped the (ancient) 35s on rally wheels onto the truck and installed(ish) the front clip. Missing the inner fenders, which I think I'll do at the end to trim around the coilovers. And not all the bolts are in, but it's in enough to check clearances and trim the fenders as needed I think.



Less exciting, but I also put the pitman arm on the steering box.



Hopefully in the next couple weeks I will be starting the coilover conversion. In the meantime I think I will also try to swap the new passenger knuckle (for crossover steering) on. I have new ball joints from ORD showing up this week.

 

[Conner]

Finished rebuilding my NP208. All new bearings (including the loose bearings on the main shaft), all new seals, new chain, new input shaft (32 spline for the 6L80), new 4x4 indicator switch, new magnet (mine was missing for some reason), new shift fork pads, and the Walters electronic speed sensor conversion.

I also blasted and painted the case halves and the tail housing, the front output flange, and the shifter mechanism. I cleaned up and painted all the bolts too. Was all a big pain in the butt LOL but I'm happy with how it came out.

My brother-in-law helped a ton (and let me do most of the work at the high school shop while he simultaneously rebuilt his NP208 for his K-10) and my dad helped a ton too.

Working on cars/trucks with family is one of the finer things in life

 

[Conner]

Trying to put everything back together after swapping my passenger side knuckle and the new Spicer spindle studs gave me trouble. These are the ones pressed into the knuckle that the spindle and brake caliper bracket/plate are held on with.

2 of them snapped, and 1 of those is somehow stuck in there with the nut on it (but spinning indefinitely in either direction) preventing me from taking it back apart.

The manual I have says the torque spec is 65 lb. ft. (and even refers to a note emphasizing using proper parts and the specified torque because this is something that holds the wheel on). Is that incorrect?

I’m at a loss as to what I’m doing wrong. Bad parts? Incorrect torque? I even compared 2 different torque wrenches.

I’m all ears for any advice. This is a 10 bolt axle with the 3/8-24 spindle studs. Thanks in advance.




Torque spec on bottom right:



Purchased on eBay from a seller with good feedback, but I assume this is genuine and not a repackage or something? I assumed it was just a defective stud the first break, but 2 seems like another problem.

 

[imiceman44]

I never used a torque wrench for any of this but I can tell you I am no where close to 65 ft lbs.
More like 35.
Never had a problem

 

[CriticalAction]

Trying to put everything back together after swapping my passenger side knuckle and the new Spicer spindle studs gave me trouble. These are the ones pressed into the knuckle that the spindle and brake caliper bracket/plate are held on with.

2 of them snapped, and 1 of those is somehow stuck in there with the nut on it (but spinning indefinitely in either direction) preventing me from taking it back apart.

The manual I have says the torque spec is 65 lb. ft. (and even refers to a note emphasizing using proper parts and the specified torque because this is something that holds the wheel on). Is that incorrect?

I’m at a loss as to what I’m doing wrong. Bad parts? Incorrect torque? I even compared 2 different torque wrenches.

I’m all ears for any advice. This is a 10 bolt axle with the 3/8-24 spindle studs. Thanks in advance.


View attachment 522391

Torque spec on bottom right:

View attachment 522392

Purchased on eBay from a seller with good feedback, but I assume this is genuine and not a repackage or something? I assumed it was just a defective stud the first break, but 2 seems like another problem.

View attachment 522393

Grade 10 3/8" coarse torque spec is 30-35 ft lbs. So i think your book is wrong and maybe got brought over from the D60 torque spec?

 

[Conner]

Thanks guys I think you must be right. I checked the PDF of the manual that's on CK5 and it's exactly the same as mine, including the 65 lb. ft. spec. Ugh.

I think I am going to trash the other non-broken studs I installed too. I think I may have torqued some/all of them before the first broken stud happened and I assume they are probably weakened.

I never used a torque wrench for any of this but I can tell you I am no where close to 65 ft lbs.
More like 35.
Never had a problem

Grade 10 3/8" coarse torque spec is 30-35 ft lbs. So i think your book is wrong and maybe got brought over from the D60 torque spec?

 

[folkenheath]

Torque specs are highly dependent on surface finish and lubrication.

For example, in my app I wrote the torque calculator for a 3/8-24 GR 8 bolt, I get these numbers at 75% of proof strength:

Dry black finish: 74 lb-ft

Oil lubed: 44 lb-ft

cadmium plated: 40 lb-ft

Antiseize lubed: 30 lb-ft

So it's pretty easy to see there is a finish and/or lubrication that would result in failure.

This is why in critical race fasteners like rod bolts, they go by stretch, it bypasses all of that and essentially measures the strain on the bolt.

But this is not always possible, like for head or main bolts.

This is why ARP always uses moly-lube for their torque specs, for a more consistent torque vs preload value.

 

[Conner]

This makes sense. I did spray the studs with wd40 a little just because they seemed almost powdery dry. I didn't think anything of that, and thinking about it now I'm not sure why I even bothered. But I guess that could have contributed.

My new plan is, with new studs, to not lubricate them and just get them to what feels tight enough using a regular length 3/8 ratchet. Unless anyone has a better idea.

Thanks again guys

Torque specs are highly dependent on surface finish and lubrication.

For example, in my torque calculator for a 3/8-24 GR 8 bolt, I get these numbers at 75% of proof strength:

Dry black finish: 74 lb-ft

Oil lubed: 44 lb-ft

cadmium plated: 40 lb-ft

Antiseize lubed: 30 lb-ft

So it's pretty easy to see there is a finish and/or lubrication that would result in failure.

This is why in critical race fasteners like rod bolts, they go by stretch, it bypasses all of that and essentially measures the strain on the bolt.

But this is not always possible, like for head or main bolts.

This is why ARP always uses moly-lube for their torque specs, for a more consistent torque vs preload value.

 

[imiceman44]

Thanks guys I think you must be right. I checked the PDF of the manual that's on CK5 and it's exactly the same as mine, including the 65 lb. ft. spec. Ugh.

I think I am going to trash the other non-broken studs I installed too. I think I may have torqued some/all of them before the first broken stud happened and I assume they are probably weakened.

Yeah I have been doing this for years and I trust my ugaa dugaa more than anything

 

[joshuak]

Grade 10 3/8" coarse torque spec is 30-35 ft lbs. So i think your book is wrong and maybe got brought over from the D60 torque spec?

... I checked the PDF of the manual that's on CK5 and it's exactly the same as mine, including the 65 lb. ft. spec. Ugh.

...

Military Tech Manuals also show the 65 lb ft spec for both the 10 bolt and the D60.

 

[Babaganoosh]

What are you going to do for the speed sensor when it's in 4 low?

 

[Conner]

What are you going to do for the speed sensor when it's in 4 low?

Disclaimer: at this point all this is theoretical as I haven't actually done any of it yet aside from install the Walters VSS kit in the 208. This is just my working understanding so far based on some research.

I think the ECU and PCM don't care about the speed after the transfer case, at least to the extent of them functioning properly. To my understanding the 6L80 only has an internal speed sensor (this is different than the 4L60/80 I think).

I also think a Dakota Digital dash (yet to be acquired) would be able get the speed from the ECU, but then of course would read the wrong speed in low range. Which is why I decided to do the Walters VSS kit, which is in the tail housing of the transfer case and I think should easily talk to the digital dash and would always read the correct speed (once calibrated) regardless of range. This speed sensor would literally only connect to the dash, not talk to the ECU or anything.

I'm not sure how much it matters if at all, but my engine/transmission is gen 4 stuff, 6L80, and with an AWD single speed transfer case from the donor.

 

[CriticalAction]

Disclaimer: at this point all this is theoretical as I haven't actually done any of it yet aside from install the Walters VSS kit in the 208. This is just my working understanding so far based on some research.

I think the ECU and PCM don't care about the speed after the transfer case, at least to the extent of them functioning properly. To my understanding the 6L80 only has an internal speed sensor (this is different than the 4L60/80 I think).

I also think a Dakota Digital dash (yet to be acquired) would be able get the speed from the ECU, but then of course would read the wrong speed in low range. Which is why I decided to do the Walters VSS kit, which is in the tail housing of the transfer case and I think should easily talk to the digital dash and would always read the correct speed (once calibrated) regardless of range. This speed sensor would literally only connect to the dash, not talk to the ECU or anything.

I'm not sure how much it matters if at all, but my engine/transmission is gen 4 stuff, 6L80, and with an AWD single speed transfer case from the donor.

There has to be an output speed sensor for the input to compare to for shift tables. So as a clarification your tcm is going to care about output speed but no it does not have to be behind the transfer case.

It is a very common practice with both 4l60e and 80e transmissions to run them as a simulated 2wd by adding the output speed sensor before the t case somewhere.

4l80es get the benefit of having the factory 2wd case location. However, you have to have the 2wd reluctor wheel installed. 60es I have seen it put into the t case adapter because I believe the factory location is on the tail housing.

I am not well versed in the 6l80/90s so hopefully someone else chimes in. Your plan to have the computer run the tranny and your gauges pull speed from t case output shaft is actually the same way I am currently setting mine up.

My 4l80e was built with the 2wd reluctor wheel and after adding the speed sensor my terminator plugs in there. My current speedometer reading was taken off the 241c but since I added the magnum/205 I had ORD machine the housing to get a correct speed regardless of low range.