I've never been thrilled with my steering speed just at idle and not breaking. Part of the reason I sprang for the hi-flow. Maybe that's attributable to a weak pump instead.
CK5
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'89 R3500 Crew Cab 2wd to 4wd conversion & beyond
- Thread starter mrk5
- Start date
Started out with 2wd TBI350 with SM465 to current 4wd with 454, 700r4, NP241
I've never been thrilled with my steering speed just at idle and not breaking. Part of the reason I sprang for the hi-flow. Maybe that's attributable to a weak pump instead.
Thanks for the info on the PSC box.
I saw that listing and I did contemplate your toolbox combo but I'm hoping to have nothing in the bed. At most I'm thinking about some sort of removeable smallish boxes with trail gear that I can unload to open up the bed for day to day use around home
Thanks also for the compliments.
Go vacuum much simpler for what you are building
Yea man, no problem
yea I figure since my M1009 had only 23,000 original miles on the stock steering components (Still brand new IMO) and then going to the ORD PSC box and pump and driving it around for 6 months before I went hydro assist... There was for sure better gain in steering power. Now that I have the hydro assist, it turns a little bit slower but defiantly turns, even with the front locked in.Either way you choose... Any PSC part is gonna help
If I was in your current state, I would get the PSC pump first before getting the box. It's more HD then stock.
Did you wanna go cross over? All in all, I think if your gonna do 37"+ I would for sure consider Hydro assist. This picture here v is of me trying to turn my tires with the PSC Pump and Box. After several forward and reverse moves, I was finally able to get them to turn. That's when I decided to for sure upgrade the next best thing... Hydro Assist or Aka Ram assist. Haha! Everyone was yelling, "Turn your wheels!!!" "She don't have the power Captain"!!!! I yelled back! Lol
I do have the hydro-assist and crossover I'm swapping in off my retired K5. It's actually a high steer setup with behind the axle tie rod. Undortunately that's not going to work with springs I'm planning to run in this crew cab.
Well if your setting your trail limit to a 3-4 rating trail, would you need high steer? Could just keep the tie rod stock and carry a spare?
Probably not. I'm thinking about doing something like Jason Payne did with his truck at one point. http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/general-4x4-discussion/236132-double-ended-hydro-assist-results.html
In my mind the perfect way to build a truck that will be limited to a 3 or 4 rated trail, is to build it to be able to handle a 5 rated trail. There is not a whole lot of difference but the little things will make those less difficult trails all the more enjoyable.
Besides if you want a challenge in Moab just have me spot you
some back story
I realize part of the trouble with this thread is that I have stuff I've done over the years on the K5 (the General) but that information isn't here. So when you all read this you don't really know what I've already got going on. So in light of the steering discussion I'll go over the set up I had on the General.
I did the typical crossover steering setup when I swapped in the Dana 60. Followed that up with hyrdo-assist from PSC; cylinder, hoses w/re-usable ends, and standard pump. I managed to bend the HD tie-rod and dinged up the hydraulic cylinder a little.
It wasn't anything that made the cylinder unusable but I decided I should go high-steer so that I didn't eventually wind up replacing a damaged cylinder.
I purchased an ORD driver side arm to use for the high-steer, but I quickly realized this wouldn't work once I tried to install the tie-rod and drag-link on the passenger arm. The problem was that I had 52" springs with the axle moved 2" forward. This caused the tie-rod and drag-link to bind up.
I found a WFO Concepts steering arm on the forums that was lightly used. It is the style on the left below.
At the time I was getting the steering arms their driver side arm diidn't have the 5th hole for Reid knuckles and I really wanted that feature. I wound up ordering a new arm identical to the used one I found.
Using these arms put the tie-rod behind the axle. This solved the problem created with the axle moved forward 2".
In the process of setting up the steering arms I learned something new about our old drill press. The used steering arm I picked up had a tapered hole for a tie-rod end but I already had heims for this purpose. I had to drill out the tapered hole for a 3/4" bolt. I was trying to figure how I could drill a straight hole through the end of the arm that was angled. It was then I realized I could rotate the platform on the drill press. It even has degree marks. I put an angle finder on the arm found the angle was 8 degrees so I rotated the platform to match. Clamped the arm down and I was good to go.
I hinted at Reid knuckles above. I decided with high-steer that was boosted with a hydraulic cylinder I should upgrade the knuckles. I picked up some Reid knuckles from Offroad Design. It's obvious from the pictures whey they are a good upgrade:
I also replace the spindle studs while I was at it. Parts Mike was the only place I could find at the time that included nuts with the studs.
The WFO steering arms I'm using are the springless type, meaning they eliminate the spring that normally pre-loads the king pin. Instead it uses large set screw threaded into the arms that is torqued against a washer on top of the king pin bushing in order to provide the pre-load.
Here you can see the recess where the washer sets. You can also see the large threaded hole in the middle for the set screw and the grease zirc passage.
You use an allen wrench on the set screw to adjust pre-load. There is a jam nut to lock it in place.
I used a fish scale to pull on the knucle at the tie rod hole. None of the linkage is attached.
The fish scale should read 25lbs at the tie rod hole. The trick is to give the knuckle a good steady pull following the arc it moves in naturally. I wish I would have used deflecting beam torque wrench on the set screw so I would have a torque setting to use for easy checking from time to time. I think somewhere at one point I found a torque setting someone else came up with but I don't remember what it was.
As a side note, when I first installed my Dana 60, 1 knuckle had 2 of the lower cap bolts stripped out. I drilled out and tapped the 2 holes for the next size larger bolt. I picked up a new lower cap from Parts Mike since I could now use the correct sign bolts on the Reid knuckles. Little trick I learned is to weld a ring around the zirc fitting to protect it from getting knocked off on the rocks.
I tried to be a little more creative with the new cap.
I also installed the Stage 8 spindle nut setup for ease of maintenance in the future.
Here's what the finished install looked like.
You can see in the picture above I had to use a tall misalignment spacer. This was to clear the springs when they are arched in droop and the wheels are turned. They just barely clear now. Which is the problem I have with using this setup on the crew cab. I'm going to be using shorter springs (48" vs 52") and I think the new springs will have more arch to begin with. So I'm going to have more trouble with the tie-rod hitting the springs.
I think the biggest mistake with this setup was putting yellow arms on the orange knuckles.
I realize part of the trouble with this thread is that I have stuff I've done over the years on the K5 (the General) but that information isn't here. So when you all read this you don't really know what I've already got going on. So in light of the steering discussion I'll go over the set up I had on the General.
I did the typical crossover steering setup when I swapped in the Dana 60. Followed that up with hyrdo-assist from PSC; cylinder, hoses w/re-usable ends, and standard pump. I managed to bend the HD tie-rod and dinged up the hydraulic cylinder a little.
It wasn't anything that made the cylinder unusable but I decided I should go high-steer so that I didn't eventually wind up replacing a damaged cylinder.
I purchased an ORD driver side arm to use for the high-steer, but I quickly realized this wouldn't work once I tried to install the tie-rod and drag-link on the passenger arm. The problem was that I had 52" springs with the axle moved 2" forward. This caused the tie-rod and drag-link to bind up.
I found a WFO Concepts steering arm on the forums that was lightly used. It is the style on the left below.
At the time I was getting the steering arms their driver side arm diidn't have the 5th hole for Reid knuckles and I really wanted that feature. I wound up ordering a new arm identical to the used one I found.
Using these arms put the tie-rod behind the axle. This solved the problem created with the axle moved forward 2".
In the process of setting up the steering arms I learned something new about our old drill press. The used steering arm I picked up had a tapered hole for a tie-rod end but I already had heims for this purpose. I had to drill out the tapered hole for a 3/4" bolt. I was trying to figure how I could drill a straight hole through the end of the arm that was angled. It was then I realized I could rotate the platform on the drill press. It even has degree marks. I put an angle finder on the arm found the angle was 8 degrees so I rotated the platform to match. Clamped the arm down and I was good to go.
I hinted at Reid knuckles above. I decided with high-steer that was boosted with a hydraulic cylinder I should upgrade the knuckles. I picked up some Reid knuckles from Offroad Design. It's obvious from the pictures whey they are a good upgrade:
I also replace the spindle studs while I was at it. Parts Mike was the only place I could find at the time that included nuts with the studs.
The WFO steering arms I'm using are the springless type, meaning they eliminate the spring that normally pre-loads the king pin. Instead it uses large set screw threaded into the arms that is torqued against a washer on top of the king pin bushing in order to provide the pre-load.
Here you can see the recess where the washer sets. You can also see the large threaded hole in the middle for the set screw and the grease zirc passage.
You use an allen wrench on the set screw to adjust pre-load. There is a jam nut to lock it in place.
I used a fish scale to pull on the knucle at the tie rod hole. None of the linkage is attached.
The fish scale should read 25lbs at the tie rod hole. The trick is to give the knuckle a good steady pull following the arc it moves in naturally. I wish I would have used deflecting beam torque wrench on the set screw so I would have a torque setting to use for easy checking from time to time. I think somewhere at one point I found a torque setting someone else came up with but I don't remember what it was.
As a side note, when I first installed my Dana 60, 1 knuckle had 2 of the lower cap bolts stripped out. I drilled out and tapped the 2 holes for the next size larger bolt. I picked up a new lower cap from Parts Mike since I could now use the correct sign bolts on the Reid knuckles. Little trick I learned is to weld a ring around the zirc fitting to protect it from getting knocked off on the rocks.
I tried to be a little more creative with the new cap.
I also installed the Stage 8 spindle nut setup for ease of maintenance in the future.
Here's what the finished install looked like.
You can see in the picture above I had to use a tall misalignment spacer. This was to clear the springs when they are arched in droop and the wheels are turned. They just barely clear now. Which is the problem I have with using this setup on the crew cab. I'm going to be using shorter springs (48" vs 52") and I think the new springs will have more arch to begin with. So I'm going to have more trouble with the tie-rod hitting the springs.
I think the biggest mistake with this setup was putting yellow arms on the orange knuckles.
Last edited:
y5mgisi
1 ton status
Im really curious to see how it works out going to the crew! I have been trying to imagine how something like that would work out.
Yup on the orange and yellow stuff
y5mgisi
1 ton status
Is there a joke to that or just that its ugly?
No joke it's ugly! Yellow was the primary color on my K5 so that's what I painted the steering arms without thinking they would be sitting on orange. Every time I see them I think of circus clowns. 
y5mgisi
1 ton status
It is a little flamboyant...
No joke it's ugly! Yellow was the primary color on my K5 so that's what I painted the steering arms without thinking they would be sitting on orange. Every time I see them I think of circus clowns.
I like the pretty colors. It's different! Different is cool! Will the real slim shady please stand up?
Debating the benefits of 64" over 56" like I been running. If I keep the 56's all I need to do is install the shackle flip. That makes them intriguing right off the bat.
The 64's intrigue me because it's something I haven't done before. It also intrigues me because GM switched to them in late 80's and still use them now on most all trucks from what I understand. Makes me think they might be a good compromise between ride and load capacity.
Any thoughts?
The 64's intrigue me because it's something I haven't done before. It also intrigues me because GM switched to them in late 80's and still use them now on most all trucks from what I understand. Makes me think they might be a good compromise between ride and load capacity.
Any thoughts?
I would do 63's easier to find ones not worn out and they work rather well for me
Longer springs tend to ride nicer the newer springs are super easy to find not really that much more work to install them. Longer springs when they wont really affect approach or depature angles win every time for me. I have the 5 leaf pack in Horton and they ride nice and are plenty flexy
One of my points of debate has been how many leaves to run in the 64" pack. I notice half ton pickups with just 2 and 1 tons with I think as many as 7. I was thinking I should run somewhere around what a 3/4 ton does. 5 leaf is probably close to that I'll bet.
My plan is to run a relatively soft rear suspension with air bag assist for load handling. Not gonna be hauling heavy but do want to use this truck for stuff like hauling landscape materials for work around the house and maybe 300# at the hitch for a lightweight camper. You know like real pickup stuff.
My plan is to run a relatively soft rear suspension with air bag assist for load handling. Not gonna be hauling heavy but do want to use this truck for stuff like hauling landscape materials for work around the house and maybe 300# at the hitch for a lightweight camper. You know like real pickup stuff.
