CK5
Register an account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members.
'90 K5 - Project Betty - LS3 Swap for a DD/Offroad/Utility Build
- Thread starter cliles
- Start date
y5mgisi
1 ton status
Me? Bad ass? Not even close! You just don't seem to be in a huge rush and you seem to have a good deal of common sense. And lots of tools.
Common Sense
I dont know how much common sense I have. I keep adding to this project and the time and money are adding up.
Since I have the axle out, I decided this would be as good of a time as any to swap over to 52" springs in the front. Ordered the A-Bomb center from DIY4X, went ahead and ordered the gauntlet rear bumper why I was at it. I had always planned to make my own set, but the way I feel now, once I get this girl running I am not going to want to park it for additional metal fab.
Going to the junk yard in DFW is a PITA, at least for me. the vast majority of them are pick and pulls, which wouldn't be terrible other than you have to carry any tool you use for a mile until you reach your vehicle (parts may or may not be there), and then cart your scrap a mile back. Took me almost a whole Saturday to pull a couple of doors and fender once.
I think I am just going to try to buy some aftermarket springs. Kert at DIY4X said that the stock rear blazer springs work about as well as any. Probably start there.
I dont know how much common sense I have. I keep adding to this project and the time and money are adding up.
Since I have the axle out, I decided this would be as good of a time as any to swap over to 52" springs in the front. Ordered the A-Bomb center from DIY4X, went ahead and ordered the gauntlet rear bumper why I was at it. I had always planned to make my own set, but the way I feel now, once I get this girl running I am not going to want to park it for additional metal fab.
Going to the junk yard in DFW is a PITA, at least for me. the vast majority of them are pick and pulls, which wouldn't be terrible other than you have to carry any tool you use for a mile until you reach your vehicle (parts may or may not be there), and then cart your scrap a mile back. Took me almost a whole Saturday to pull a couple of doors and fender once.
I think I am just going to try to buy some aftermarket springs. Kert at DIY4X said that the stock rear blazer springs work about as well as any. Probably start there.
y5mgisi
1 ton status
Maybe find a parting truck k on craigslist?
I have some questions about a 52 swap, if anyone has experience.
I would prefer not to move the rear shackle out of laziness, but I also thought it would move the axle forward.
How far is that supposed to move the axle forward?
I have read 2", but was not sure how reputable the source is.
I really do not want to move my axle forward since I am doing this in conjunction with a cut and turn (will screw up my newly created pinion angle, although probably not much).
I have a set of zero rates, which I could use to move it back an inch, however I bought a set of springs with a 2" lift, so the zero rate will likely make it too high.
I read on another post that using lifted springs would somehow screw up the conversion, not sure how, once again not sure about the source.
Thoughts?
I would prefer not to move the rear shackle out of laziness, but I also thought it would move the axle forward.
How far is that supposed to move the axle forward?
I have read 2", but was not sure how reputable the source is.
I really do not want to move my axle forward since I am doing this in conjunction with a cut and turn (will screw up my newly created pinion angle, although probably not much).
I have a set of zero rates, which I could use to move it back an inch, however I bought a set of springs with a 2" lift, so the zero rate will likely make it too high.
I read on another post that using lifted springs would somehow screw up the conversion, not sure how, once again not sure about the source.
Thoughts?
Too Early to Call the War, but I Lost the First Cut and Turn Battle
Cut the weld on the inner C, even tried to go a little into the tube, but could not get it to budge. I welded a piece of DOM tubing to the kingpin to use a large cheater bar, and could not get it to rotate. I will admit that I could never get it secured enough to feel comfortable putting my whole weight into it, but I was generating some pretty serious torque.
I was never able to find the "crack" talked about in a dana 44 cut and turn project, maybe that is my problem.
I tried hammering the C off the tube (not sincerely, but enough to reveal a crack) with no success. I also tried taking a torch too it, but could never get it to go cherry, too much metal. Probably need two torches, different tip, I do not know much about Oxy/Acetylene.
If any on lookers can provide any suggestions as far as additional grinding, better ways to rotate the C, or secure the axle, I would appreciate it.
Yours Truly,
The least intelligent guinea pig
Cut the weld on the inner C, even tried to go a little into the tube, but could not get it to budge. I welded a piece of DOM tubing to the kingpin to use a large cheater bar, and could not get it to rotate. I will admit that I could never get it secured enough to feel comfortable putting my whole weight into it, but I was generating some pretty serious torque.
I was never able to find the "crack" talked about in a dana 44 cut and turn project, maybe that is my problem.
I tried hammering the C off the tube (not sincerely, but enough to reveal a crack) with no success. I also tried taking a torch too it, but could never get it to go cherry, too much metal. Probably need two torches, different tip, I do not know much about Oxy/Acetylene.
If any on lookers can provide any suggestions as far as additional grinding, better ways to rotate the C, or secure the axle, I would appreciate it.
Yours Truly,
The least intelligent guinea pig
y5mgisi
1 ton status
Me thinks a little more grinding and HEAT! lots a heat on the knuckle. As for the 52 question, yes, without moving tye rear shackle hanger you are forced to move the axle forward. 2" is correct as I recall.
y5mgisi
1 ton status
And I don't think you need to go anymore into the tube.
y5mgisi
1 ton status
Also rather than use your limited body weight, figure out a way to rig a come along or something off the end of your cheater bar and let that do the work for you. You can put literally tons of force in that way. Just be careful!
Looks like you need to go into the knuckle more, rather than the tube. There may have been a small bevel prep on the knuckle when it was originally manufactured. I wouldn't consider any brute force til I saw some sort of a part line.
Once you see a part line, heat the knuckle, then try to turn it. Try not to heat the tube part...
Once you see a part line, heat the knuckle, then try to turn it. Try not to heat the tube part...
Cut and Turn, More Like A Culinary Course
This is an excerpt from JGVABronco78 on a Pirate thread. Makes it sound like cooking or a science experiment.
"The knuckle is forged and tempered, and it is probably not a good idea to heat it cherry red without some sort of controlled cooling.
If you had it that hot, and still had trouble turning it, that was most likely due to galling between the surfaces. Even though .010" is a tight fit, requiring in excess of 300 degrees differential to fully disengage, rotating it at partial disengagement shouldn't be too difficult due to lack of friction between the surfaces. The galling could have occurred at assembly, or at the rough areas not fully cleaned at the ground out welds.
Once the weld was ground to a full 360 degree parting line, I would press or tap off the knuckle. If available, dry ice packed in the tube would greatly decrease the temperature the knuckle needed to disengage, and would maintain a higher differential temp longer, making the knuckle much easier to tap off with only moderate(400 or 500 degrees max) heat.
Once off, then you would clean both surfaces free from any nicks or burrs. Repack the tube with dry ice for at least 20 to 30 minutes, and heat the knuckle to 450 degrees in an oven. You can quickly test the fit, and if ok, then you can prepare to install it. Keep it in the oven or under flame while you get your welder, shield, match marks, spotter, rods blah, blah blah all handy. When you set it on there for good, you should have about 10 or 20 seconds to seat it, tach it, check it, and another tach opposite the first if you like the orientation. Use tiny tachs in case you don't like the set you can beat it back off quickly. If you have a 3" to 4" outside mike and a telescoping gage, you can set the gage at .005" over the end of the tube diameter, and when it fits smoothly in the knuckle, there's no need for a test fit, you know it will go easy.
Allow the ice to completely evaporate and both pieces to return to ambient temperature before you fully weld. You may wish to preheat to 175 degrees prior to welding the forging, then insulate to cool slowly just for good measure(in case it ends up in the space shuttle)."
This is an excerpt from JGVABronco78 on a Pirate thread. Makes it sound like cooking or a science experiment.
"The knuckle is forged and tempered, and it is probably not a good idea to heat it cherry red without some sort of controlled cooling.
If you had it that hot, and still had trouble turning it, that was most likely due to galling between the surfaces. Even though .010" is a tight fit, requiring in excess of 300 degrees differential to fully disengage, rotating it at partial disengagement shouldn't be too difficult due to lack of friction between the surfaces. The galling could have occurred at assembly, or at the rough areas not fully cleaned at the ground out welds.
Once the weld was ground to a full 360 degree parting line, I would press or tap off the knuckle. If available, dry ice packed in the tube would greatly decrease the temperature the knuckle needed to disengage, and would maintain a higher differential temp longer, making the knuckle much easier to tap off with only moderate(400 or 500 degrees max) heat.
Once off, then you would clean both surfaces free from any nicks or burrs. Repack the tube with dry ice for at least 20 to 30 minutes, and heat the knuckle to 450 degrees in an oven. You can quickly test the fit, and if ok, then you can prepare to install it. Keep it in the oven or under flame while you get your welder, shield, match marks, spotter, rods blah, blah blah all handy. When you set it on there for good, you should have about 10 or 20 seconds to seat it, tach it, check it, and another tach opposite the first if you like the orientation. Use tiny tachs in case you don't like the set you can beat it back off quickly. If you have a 3" to 4" outside mike and a telescoping gage, you can set the gage at .005" over the end of the tube diameter, and when it fits smoothly in the knuckle, there's no need for a test fit, you know it will go easy.
Allow the ice to completely evaporate and both pieces to return to ambient temperature before you fully weld. You may wish to preheat to 175 degrees prior to welding the forging, then insulate to cool slowly just for good measure(in case it ends up in the space shuttle)."
y5mgisi
1 ton status
I suppose it makes sense. But I personally wouldn't be too worried about adding a good amount of heat to it. I guess after reading that I would shoot for just below cherry red. Like stop heating an area when it starts to show signs of red. But I van pretty well guarantee you will need SOME heat to get it to break loose.
Reply
Well you would be right.
I cut about 1/4-1/2" into the inner C before I could see a faint and inconsistent line. I say inconsistent because in some places I would have to go quite a bit deeper to follow the line. Either the weld had more penetration there or I was more or less blurring the crack while grinding.
Did a decent amount of damage to the inner part of the inner C from beating on it, but could not get it to budge before my torch went dark.
I ran out of oxygen, and I am pretty close to being empty on acetylene. I researched some about rosebud tips, I only have cutting tips. Like I said before, I am not that skilled/knowledgeable in oxy/acetylene, amongst other things. Sounds like a different tip will help me put out the heat I need to get this piece of shat off.
I tried to salvage the day by cutting of the the front hangers for the A-Bomb/52 swap install.
Side note, I started using a pack of Dewalt cutting discs today instead of the cheap harbor freight discs I have been using. I can say with a high degree of certainty that those discs last longer than the HF ones even when you factor in their price multiple (3-4 times more expensive). Plus I think they cut better as well, and break less often. Having said that towards the end of the day, I had a disc break, come back at me and narrowly miss my unit. I walked that off and was cautious, only to have another disc break 10-15 minutes later and collide with my face shield. Anybody wearing glasses or goggles, really should move to a face shield in my humble opinion. They are 12-15 bucks on amazon, and provide full range of vision and face/neck protection from sparks, discs, etc.
Well you would be right.
I cut about 1/4-1/2" into the inner C before I could see a faint and inconsistent line. I say inconsistent because in some places I would have to go quite a bit deeper to follow the line. Either the weld had more penetration there or I was more or less blurring the crack while grinding.
Did a decent amount of damage to the inner part of the inner C from beating on it, but could not get it to budge before my torch went dark.
I ran out of oxygen, and I am pretty close to being empty on acetylene. I researched some about rosebud tips, I only have cutting tips. Like I said before, I am not that skilled/knowledgeable in oxy/acetylene, amongst other things. Sounds like a different tip will help me put out the heat I need to get this piece of shat off.
I tried to salvage the day by cutting of the the front hangers for the A-Bomb/52 swap install.
Side note, I started using a pack of Dewalt cutting discs today instead of the cheap harbor freight discs I have been using. I can say with a high degree of certainty that those discs last longer than the HF ones even when you factor in their price multiple (3-4 times more expensive). Plus I think they cut better as well, and break less often. Having said that towards the end of the day, I had a disc break, come back at me and narrowly miss my unit. I walked that off and was cautious, only to have another disc break 10-15 minutes later and collide with my face shield. Anybody wearing glasses or goggles, really should move to a face shield in my humble opinion. They are 12-15 bucks on amazon, and provide full range of vision and face/neck protection from sparks, discs, etc.
I noticed post posting that it is pretty hard to see the line unless you know what you are looking for. That is partially the picture, and mostly just because the crack is really that faint and small. I used a razor blade to try to trace it around several times, and it is fine enough to barely let the blade seat in the crack. My Dana 60 tolerances appear to be much tighter than the Dana 44 in the cut and turn website.
I have read on other threads that some people believe it is impossible to turn the knuckle and it must be pressed or beaten off then re-pressed or beaten back on. I have no clue it that is true because I cannot do either, and there is about as many different opinions as you have time to read regarding this operation. Anything from easy as pie to impossible with a lot of shades of grey in between.
I have read on other threads that some people believe it is impossible to turn the knuckle and it must be pressed or beaten off then re-pressed or beaten back on. I have no clue it that is true because I cannot do either, and there is about as many different opinions as you have time to read regarding this operation. Anything from easy as pie to impossible with a lot of shades of grey in between.
y5mgisi
1 ton status
That's scary! Rose bud should help. I maintain the need to use a come along to ratchet your cheater bar off of.
Roger that wilco. I am just being a little timid like I said before, because I cannot get the axle secured enough. When I start pulling on the DOM, I get appreciable flex in the DOM and slight lift of the opposite end jack stand. I cannot tighten the straps anymore due to their limitations. The table weighs approximately 2,000 lbs so it is not the bottle neck. The DOM flexes enough that I am worried I might break the kingpin or upper C off if I pull harder (likely just break my ****ty weld (tacked it while holding the DOM on the kingpin when I knew I should have unscrewed the kingpin and welded it that way) and fall into the back of the blazer). If I removed the differential then I could lay it flat on the housing opening, and forget about stability issues, but
1. I do not know what all is involved in taking it out and putting it back together and
2. I am trying to create less work, which I appear to be terrible at.
1. I do not know what all is involved in taking it out and putting it back together and
2. I am trying to create less work, which I appear to be terrible at.
Torches and Rosbuds
Uggh, these projects are lifesucking. After looking at rosebud tips, I am researching whether I should move to or acquire and oxy/propane setup.
Blazers are for rich men with nothing else to do or men who are ok with their rides making them poor and keeping their dance card full.
Uggh, these projects are lifesucking. After looking at rosebud tips, I am researching whether I should move to or acquire and oxy/propane setup.
Blazers are for rich men with nothing else to do or men who are ok with their rides making them poor and keeping their dance card full.
Last edited:
y5mgisi
1 ton status
Lol well in fairness, if you wanted a blazer that just ran good and could get you to your favorite fishing hole with a 4" lift and 33s, you would have been done a long long long long time ago.
I guess you are right, could have just left it how I bought it. I was somewhat happy with it then, until I saw all of the other bad-ass trucks on CK5.
It is a vicious cycle. You want to complete a simple project, so you learn a bit, get more tools. Now that you know a bit more and have more tools, you can complete a more difficult project (with a little more knowledge and tools of course). And once you have successfully increased your knowledge base and tool chest, it just seems slapdick to half a$$ this or that, so you go even deeper (with a little more research and a couple of more tools).
I blame CK5, y'all are enablers. Sometimes ignorance is bliss.
While that is true, I am mostly just kidding. Just frustrated bc this process is a beating. I think if I can get a rosebud torch setup, heat it up, hit it some, then it should come off. Getting it back on in the exact right spot is going to be the trickier part. Hopefully I will be able to rotate it once I get it off and clean up the C and tube.
