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Black Betty TBI swap

mrdrinksalil

mrdrinksalil

1/2 ton status
Joined
Apr 4, 2005
Posts
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Location
Atlanta, Georgia
Goodbye Holley TA, Hello TBI.

1882 C10 Gen I 350ci, stock heads, not positive on the cam cause I didn't build the motor but its mild if anything, Edelbrock dual plane aluminum intake, Long tube headers

Running an inline Ford Fuel pump. Screen filter before the pump, large element filter after the pump. -6 Stainless braided line w/ aluminum AN fittings.

Modded a 87 C10 (350ci) harness. Just about finished wiring this thing up.

QUESTIONS FOR THE EXPERTS...

1) Will this thing run good enough for crawlin without a chip?

a) If yes, will it be worth it to do some DIY PROM tuning for just a trail rig/ wanna be rock crawler?

2) If no, are there any DIY PROM tuning guys on here that could burn me a chip once I log some data?
 
mrdrinksalil said:
Goodbye Holley TA, Hello TBI.

1882 C10 Gen I 350ci, stock heads, not positive on the cam cause I didn't build the motor but its mild if anything, Edelbrock dual plane aluminum intake, Long tube headers

Running an inline Ford Fuel pump. Screen filter before the pump, large element filter after the pump. -6 Stainless braided line w/ aluminum AN fittings.

Modded a 87 C10 (350ci) harness. Just about finished wiring this thing up.

QUESTIONS FOR THE EXPERTS...

1) Will this thing run good enough for crawlin without a chip?

a) If yes, will it be worth it to do some DIY PROM tuning for just a trail rig/ wanna be rock crawler?

2) If no, are there any DIY PROM tuning guys on here that could burn me a chip once I log some data?
Click to expand...

That's an old C-10! Sweet!:D

Brian with Harris Performance burns TBI chips. Got one of his chips in my truck, pretty happy with it. I'm no help on the first two, though. www.tbichips.com
 
If you are going to swap to TBI, and expect decent idle characteristics for crawling around, I'd very highly suggest you swap the camshaft out for something TBI friendly.

Edelbrock's TBI cam plays nice with the stock chip, and actually does a fair bit to wake the TBI engines up when combined with an aftermarket intake and some of the "Ultimate TBI mods" as found on www.thirdgen.org
 
I've been looking around on the third gen site. Lots of info. I really want to get into the PROM burning but would like to get back on the trail ASAP too.
 
mrdrinksalil said:
I really want to get into the PROM burning but would like to get back on the trail ASAP too.
Click to expand...

I do my own PROM programming / burning. I think a low cost option to start PROM burning would be to use products from Moates.net ( http://support.moates.net/2009/05/07/gm-86-95-obd1-guide-read-me/ ). The 87 harness was likely for a 1227747 ECM. If I were to use a 1227747 ECM I would install the Moates.net G2 Memory Adapter ( http://www.moates.net/product_info.php?cPath=31&products_id=36 ) so I could use the 27SF512 Chip ( http://www.moates.net/product_info.php?cPath=31&products_id=39 ). I would use a Moates.net Burn 2 PROM Burner ( http://www.moates.net/product_info.php?cPath=31&products_id=197 ) that can flash erase / burn the 27SF512 Chip.

I've used both TunerPro ( http://www.tunerpro.net/ ) and TunerCat ( http://www.tunercat.com/ ) software to edit / write the information that will be Burned into the PROM. I like the TunerCat software better for the 1227747 ECM.

I can burn you a chip to get you back on the trail, send me a PM for more info.

dave w
 
Thanks Dave W! Looks like I have done some good initial research, cause the moats products and the flash memory chip were in my plans. I made a "one transistor" OBD1 serial port cable yesterday to log data with. I'm gonna get back out in the garage and get to work. Hopefully I can get it runnin in the next 36hrs and we'll be on to logging data next week.
 
Got some more minor issues to work out, but cranked the truck over without the throttle body bolted down and both injectors were firing so thats good news.

Gotta order up some 45 degree AN hose fittings cause the straight ones hit the intake and I can't bolt down the throttle body. Also need a 1/2 to 3/8 npt reducer for the temp. sender. Might have to switch to a 10" air cleaner. dont think there's gonna be room for the 14".
 
dave w said:
I do my own PROM programming / burning. I think a low cost option to start PROM burning would be to use products from Moates.net ( http://support.moates.net/2009/05/07/gm-86-95-obd1-guide-read-me/ ). The 87 harness was likely for a 1227747 ECM. If I were to use a 1227747 ECM I would install the Moates.net G2 Memory Adapter ( http://www.moates.net/product_info.php?cPath=31&products_id=36 ) so I could use the 27SF512 Chip ( http://www.moates.net/product_info.php?cPath=31&products_id=39 ). I would use a Moates.net Burn 2 PROM Burner ( http://www.moates.net/product_info.php?cPath=31&products_id=197 ) that can flash erase / burn the 27SF512 Chip.

I've used both TunerPro ( http://www.tunerpro.net/ ) and TunerCat ( http://www.tunercat.com/ ) software to edit / write the information that will be Burned into the PROM. I like the TunerCat software better for the 1227747 ECM.

I can burn you a chip to get you back on the trail, send me a PM for more info.

dave w
Click to expand...
Yup! What he said!

I use an AutoProm as it has everything. I was amazed at how I could smooth out the idle while hooked up to the emulater!

In doing dozens of EFI conversions on just about any motor I have noticed a few things that effect idle quality. Some can be worked out in chip tuning and others can't, or I haven't figured out how yet. One is the Park/Neuatral switch that a lot of guys leave out. Another is the VSS that can be turned off but I still see a more robust idle in gear with it.

You also need to set the minimum air on the throttle plates so the IAC counts are in the 25 to 50 range.
 
good info. I havn't wired up the park neutral yet. the connector is there I just havn't gotten to it. Good to know before I start tuning though. I also dont have a VSS. I dont even think the OEM setup had it with what I'm using though.
 
mrdrinksalil said:
good info. I havn't wired up the park neutral yet. the connector is there I just havn't gotten to it. Good to know before I start tuning though. I also dont have a VSS. I dont even think the OEM setup had it with what I'm using though.
Click to expand...

Grounding the park / neutral switch to battery ( - ) negative, will get things working ok.

dave w
 
mrdrinksalil said:
good info. I havn't wired up the park neutral yet. the connector is there I just havn't gotten to it. Good to know before I start tuning though. I also dont have a VSS. I dont even think the OEM setup had it with what I'm using though.
Click to expand...
There's a lot of VSS under the dash in the speedometer cable or electronics. There are also lot's of aftermarket VSS avaialable for inline use with speedo cable.
 
Dang. I dont have any of the VSS stuff so thats prolly not gonna happen. I will get the partk neutral hooked up though.
 
ok, sounds good. I'll ground that sucker out when I start it up for the first time. Hopefully saturday. I've been very busy with my lawncare buisness all damn week
 
Ok, she runs. Spent most of saturday trying to clear up vaccum leaks with the adapter plate and what not:mad:. Once I get the base timing set and the initial setup stuff done I'll get the WinALDL working.
 
Ok, seems like the vaccum leaks are under control. Gonna spend some time on this friday going through the voltage checks I read on Binder Planet.
 
got the o2 sensor bung welded in the header. running a one wire sensor for now. went to set the timing tonight at 0deg with the bypass un plugged and the timing was really retarded. Seems to be running worse now that its set at 0deg. Shes running really rich right now so I might have fouled the plugs, idk.
 
Well after you set the timing to 0 with the wire unplugged, lock it down, reconnect the wire and check timing. Should be way advanced. Then turn off and clear codes by disconnecting the batterey for a minute. Then restart and all should be good.
 
I'll check timing again tonight. I know I did the whole set at 0deg with the bypass disconnected procedure correctly. I'm also gonna swap plugs and go though all my voltage checks if it's not raining.

I REALLY appreciate everyones help on this. It's easy to get overwhelmed and frustrated with this engine management stuff. Especially if its not something you do every day and a retrofitted system.
 
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