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box the frame or run a cage tied to the frame?

should i box entire frame or do well designed cage?

  • box entire frame with cage

    Votes: 13 44.8%

  • well designed cage tied to frame with boxin front hangers and steering gear box

    Votes: 16 55.2%
  • Total voters
    29
I would suggest at least boxing around the shackle hangers. I bent the frame at both front shackle hangers when I rolled mine. I currently still have the stock frame, but no core support, the front is caged out like bgreen's above. I have fender shells hung off the cage. The rear is in the process of finishing the tube work and hanging shells.

I have a stick of 2"x4" that I'm planning to use as a new frame front to back eventually. Although I may end up linking it as well.

I still have the stock cab bushings and get a lot of flex in the body even with the cage tied to the frame. My cage is hard mounted to the stock frame with a piece of 1/4" plate to spread out the load.
 
I've thought about welding up some 2x8 or so pieces for a frame for my truck. Definitely wouldn't be cheap, but you could build it without compromise. There's a couple guys on 4btswaps.com that are doing that for jeeps/scouts, etc.
 
cybrfire said:
So, when you guys are building the cage and tying it into the frame are you solid mounting it? If yes, are you attaching it to the body solid as well? What are you doing with the flexible body mounts?
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My cage plates top and bottom with sleeves in the tubes. So yes the body is attached to the cage and frame. Left the stock body mounts just because. They are of no use. Even the core support is attached to the cage so the fenders are supported by it.
 
if i decide to box the whole frame, whats the best way to go about the riveted cross members? im thinking of just cuting the steel to fit around them and just welding it to them. same with my rear shock inboarding crossmember. if i end up doin the entire frame im planing on taking out the engine/tranny/tcase and then just taking out the body bolts on one side and jacking the one side of the body up at a time to get to the frame to weld it.
 
down4thakrown said:
if i decide to box the whole frame, whats the best way to go about the riveted cross members? im thinking of just cuting the steel to fit around them and just welding it to them. same with my rear shock inboarding crossmember. if i end up doin the entire frame im planing on taking out the engine/tranny/tcase and then just taking out the body bolts on one side and jacking the one side of the body up at a time to get to the frame to weld it.
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Trim around them. Sometimes it works better to end a piece of boxing material right at the center of the cross member. Puts your notching half in one piece and half in the other.

Jacking up one side at a time will depend on how you intend to fit the boxing plates and how high you can manage to push it up.
 
should i weld the plates to the crossmembers too? or just leavem notched? is the plates in your kit marked for each part of the frame?
 
down4thakrown said:
should i weld the plates to the crossmembers too? or just leavem notched? is the plates in your kit marked for each part of the frame?
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They are marked these days. In the past they weren't which was cause for some confusion.

I weld to some crossmembers. Some not. Just depends on if its something I think I'll need to remove at some point.
 
Cage tied to the frame no question.

The C-channel itself is far from the only issue. The crossmembers are a major contributor, especially after 20-45 years. The crossmembers crack, they're weren't awesome to begin with and old rivets are almost always loose.

Replacing the crossmembers or bolting/welding on the stock ones makes a big difference, but nothing makes as big of a difference as a cage tied to the frame.

I've heard a story from the ORD guys from years back of a guy that welded 3/8" plate all around the c-channel frame claiming he'd never have another frame flex issue. Then he got up on an obstacle with the suspension twisted up and his fan was hitting the shroud for some reason :doah:
 
ya after looking at the truck and all the lines, wires and exhaust. im thinking im goin to do just the front half. and ive been doin some searching on here about companys who make cage kits. and i might just buy a cage kit then tie it to the frame? anybody had any experiance with this?
 
down4thakrown said:
ya after looking at the truck and all the lines, wires and exhaust. im thinking im goin to do just the front half. and ive been doin some searching on here about companys who make cage kits. and i might just buy a cage kit then tie it to the frame? anybody had any experiance with this?
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Search, there are lot's of opinions on them.

My base "chassis" is an S&W cage kit, actually that's how my Blazer kinda turned into a buggy. I started installing the cage, decided to go full convertible, boatsides, then decided I should taper it, then somehow the cage became the outside of the truck within a couple weeks :doah:

The S&W kit is "ok", mine was a mix of .120" and .135" wall 1.625" DOM which is a dumb size. I'm sure it was used to meet some race spec for something but in my recreational application it's a pain to deal with: you can't really add 1.75" .120" wall tubing to it and 1.625" tubing isn't always easy to get. Hence I have lots of 1.5" tubing in my rig which isn't a huge deal because it's relatively light but on a full bodied rig I'd feel much better about 1.75" .120" wall DOM.

The "kit" is some bends, tubing that keep the A and B pillar WAY too close together in my opinion plus you still have to cut and notch everything. If I were to do it from scratch: buy a notcher from Harbor Freight that uses a drill and hole saw, buy/rent a bender (or have a couple buddies go in on one, they aren't super expensive) and accept that you'll waste some tube. It's easy to find a use for any pieces that don't end up right, gussets etc.
 
I have helped on one S&W cage, now bear in mind I have built a whole lot of cages, everything from a couple of autocross cars, to full family cages in full size rigs, plus the whole cutting the whole cab off thing.

That kit was crap. I am a big guy (6'3") and I would have been banging my head off it all the time.

Compared to something custom built it just plain flat out sucks, everything is way far away from where it could be, which makes sense when you are mass producing a cage. But not good for someone who spends the whole day in it bouncing around quite alot.
 
blazinzuk said:
I have helped on one S&W cage, now bear in mind I have built a whole lot of cages, everything from a couple of autocross cars, to full family cages in full size rigs, plus the whole cutting the whole cab off thing.

That kit was crap. I am a big guy (6'3") and I would have been banging my head off it all the time.

Compared to something custom built it just plain flat out sucks, everything is way far away from where it could be, which makes sense when you are mass producing a cage. But not good for someone who spends the whole day in it bouncing around quite alot.
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I can vouch for that sentiment of S&W cage kits....to restrictive, build from scratch instead. The money you spend on the kit cage will buy you a decent bender.
 
ya after reading your guy's comments maybe ill look intoa bender. anybody have a link to a best bang for the buck bender?
 
Don't know if they're still around but I started with a ProTools manual bender set that did the job just fine. I remember it being about a grand for the bender and 5 dies, some of which were aluminum. Good part of what I still have was built with that bender.
Had an employee that bought a bender with one die (2" in this case) bent his blazer buggy and then sold it. He actually had to mount the bender to the buggy for a solid base to bend his tube. Kind of crazy but it got him on the trails quite nicely.

Good decision.
 
No. Been there. Needs to be .095 or thicker. Very flatbeds would be OK maybe. But I know it will not do a 90.
 
Stephen said:
I boxed the front to the T-cases and caged it front to back and it's been beat and held up well. I've seen desert trucks that were just caged and they held up well also. I like boxing the front since it's hard to effectively cage through the firewall and it gets worked there pretty good.

I caged mine first and it made a big difference so don't be afraid to to that part by itself.
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X2

If I could do it over this is what id do. If you pull the dash and run one of kerts it's a lot easier to cage through the firewall.

Everyone ive seen has broken right in front of the front springs rear hanger. With the exception of one I bought for the drivetrain that was broke infront of the rear spring front hanger.
 
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