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Broken cross pin retaining bolt (12 Bolt Axle). Looking for advice.

I didn't know about the kits when mine broke. I was just glad I had a second vehicle...
 
The "kit" didn't really work out that well for me. Nice kit, looks like it would work in any situation other than mine lol. Gonna hold onto it just in case I need it in the future.

I did get my axle issue resolved... used a hole saw and ended up using the carrier from the other axle I was working with. Swapped the good ring gear onto the good carrier and slapped it all together. Everything worked out well.

Truck moved well under it's own power, rear brakes gave me a hard time. I think I threw the wrong drums on or something... good 'ol pedal to the floor freed them up though.

Thanks to all who contributed to this thread!
 
Joe In Montana said:
The cross shaft is hardened to a bearing-steel hardness. A saw or drill just dances on it.

Same for the retaining pin/bolt. It too is hardened.

Cobalt drills won't even do it - REAL cobalt drills, not Harbor Fright ones!
Click to expand...

My Milwaukee brand cobalt bits ate the cross pin and the lock bolt for lunch.

I center punched the cross pin amd started drilling with a small bit ans worked my way up to a 1/2" bit. My bi-metal hole saw ate the cross pin up too, like it was nothing.
 
scpaul said:
Have you ever heard of reverse drill bits? Center punch the screw preferably and go slow with the bit. It will drill the pin if you buy the good bit. I've seen a mechanic buddy do it several times over the years. They seem to break for no reason.

Hope it works, Paul
Click to expand...


There's no way in hell I could get a regular length bit in the man. I have a set of reverse bits (they've come in handy plenty of times).

You need a long drill bit to get in that hole, too many things interfering with the drill itself, you may be able to get a regular length bit in there but it would be at an angle and chew the threads in the carrier up.
 
handloader90 said:
My Milwaukee brand cobalt bits ate the cross pin and the lock bolt for lunch.

I center punched the cross pin amd started drilling with a small bit ans worked my way up to a 1/2" bit. My bi-metal hole saw ate the cross pin up too, like it was nothing.
Click to expand...

I've got both spare pins and keepers and frankly, they are tough.

The cross shaft won't mark with a file or a hacksaw. I know that cobalt drill bits - especially the split tip ones are good enough to get inside the case hardened pins IF the pin actually breaks flat enough so the bit won't wander into the metal around it.

Being able to center punch the cross shaft is almost unbelievable . Good on ya if you got it to happen. It is a pretty tough case hardened shaft though. If you break through the case hardening (it's really nitrited) - you might be able to drill through the softer center.

My technique ruins the cross shaft - that's necessary - but with no BFH or punches, etc.

I've saved quite a few housings and gear sets the way I do it - and this ain't no infomercial - I've got nothing to sell - I'll tell anyone who PMs and asks for the trick.

HINT: it involves a Dremel and 15 minutes.
 
Handloader,

I've never thought to look at exactly what he's using. I know that he has a couple of 90* drills, and what length or brand of bits he uses. It seems that he has the vehicles up on a double post lift so the suspension is extended completely. I don't remember anything special, but that ain't sayin' much!

Do you think that if you heated the pin and made the metal so that it's not as hard/brittle that might help? Just heat it with a propane torch and let it cool?

I'm glad you said that because I've been meaning to get a set of reverse bits and I might as well get a set that works for this too. I have a Jimmy that has the stock 10 bolt ends in it, so I guess that they have that pin too.

Glad it worked, Paul
 
Man I heated that cross pin up with my MAP torch for so long that the whole carrier and ring gear would burn you if you touched it (ask me how I know).

Did do anything in terms of helping shear that lock bolt/pin... nothing at all.

All of the work I did may have been a wasted effort and a wasted $150 or so (axle, special tool, gear oil and some new hardware for the brake backing plates... I'm planning on swapping in my disc brake swapped 14FF in place of the 12 Bolt I just installed. Shady brakes and a long tow just doesn't sit well in my book.

I just went through the 14FF this past winter and did the disc brake swap, new wheel studs, new seals and bearings/races in the hubs. It's got welded spider gears but I'm gonna pull those and pop some good ones in that I have sitting in the garage. Get a conversion U-Joint, adjustable proportioning valve and 2 8 lug wheels (swap my tires over) and I should good to go.
 
If it requires heat, I've yet to find anything that compares to oxy-acetylene. Everything else seems to be a waste of time. No offense, just haven't had luck with anything else. Any time I've heard of other folks trying propane or MAP, it seems like it's just not hot enough for serious things like "automotive" metal applications.
 
So, I would need oxy-acetylene to get it hot enough to just remove the hardening (anneal?). I didn't realize that I had to get it that hot. Do you think that softening the pin would help stop the pins from breaking? This is just for future reference, my 10 bolts do have the pin, don't they? It won't hurt my feelings if you said no, from what I've heard here, they have enough problems already. I probably don't need to worry about it since I haven't been able to mess with it in a month or more.

Thanks for the info, Paul
 
scpaul said:
So, I would need oxy-acetylene to get it hot enough to just remove the hardening (anneal?). I didn't realize that I had to get it that hot. Do you think that softening the pin would help stop the pins from breaking? This is just for future reference, my 10 bolts do have the pin, don't they? It won't hurt my feelings if you said no, from what I've heard here, they have enough problems already. I probably don't need to worry about it since I haven't been able to mess with it in a month or more.

Thanks for the info, Paul
Click to expand...

I wouldn't worry about it too much.

The lock bolt breaking is only an issue when removing the the crosspin.

The pin portion of the lock bolt will stay secured inside of the hole in the carrier and the crosspin if for whatever reason it did shear. From what I understand 90% or so of lock pins are broken when people go to remove them.
 
I know that a high % of pins are broken. That's why I was asking. My axles are 3.42 and I probably will want to change them down the road because I don't want to go back to a smaller tire. I can't remember for sure, but I think that I'm running 35-12.50's and I want to run it in O/D eventually without it changing in and out of O/D. I think that I'll eventually go to 4.10/11 or lower (4.3x?) but not extreme. I haven't had to do anything to run the 35's, no lifts, shackles, etc. It would look real strange with 235's on it. It came with 31-10.50's and they looked strange as it was. The thing with me is that because of health and money, I'm having to go slow. I have gotten a lot of good info and ideas from this forum, Thanks everybody, Paul
 
I was just talking in general. You can change the temper in steel springs with very little (relatively) heat. Larger chunks of metal will take more heat. If something is going to happen with heat, oxy-acetylene will do it. I think propane/MAP would be good for defeating loctite for instance.
 
Depending on what type of steel you're dealing with will determine what the addition of heat will do. Spring steel and heat will waking it, cross pin bolt and heat will make it harder and almost impossible to drill.
 
Here's a pic of what a run of the mill cobalt bit and cheap holesaw did to the cross pin, lock bolt and the cross pin hole in the carrier.

Center punched the end of the crosspin where the lock bolt is and went to town with a cobalt bit, the bits didn't have any issues with the cross pin. The bit also went through the lock bolt portion that was in the cross pin.

That wasn't good enough so out came the bi-metal holesaw. It had zero issues eating away at the cross pin and some of the carrier... if I had been a little more careful and maybe stepped down one size on the holesaw then I could have avoided damaging the carrier. I wanted to replace the carrier (had one sitting around) due to me beating the snot out of it and possibly having some hairline fractures in it that I couldn't see.

20170428_171457.jpg
 
I always thought that if I heated hardened metal and didn't quench it in anything, just let it cool that it would go back to regular steel or atleast softer than grade 8 and maybe 5.

Depending how much metal you are having to heat, just propane will normally release red Loctite.

I wonder if you were to heat the carrier in the area where the pin is threaded, if the pin isn't completely broken, it might let it come out easier, maybe in 1 piece. I'm thinking that it might make getting a broken one out easier, too. I'm just spitballing, y'all would know the metal work much better than me.

Good evening, Paul
 
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