Dual Circuit Windstar Fan - Final Shroud Update 05/11/11

[Lunatic]

....and I understand fully about the bus bars... just wanted you to be aware that what you want is more than likely available.. even I go for a stepsaver here and there.....

For sure. I wasnt trying to bust your chops on the comment. I believe what actually started the creating of the blocks was something you know about - Waiting for shipments to come in. I wanted to get started, get ahead - "I can start with the blocks, they'll be bling - Then my parts will be here and I cruise through."



And "this just in" - Literally. I picked up my pan gasket and some (seemingly gold, but worth it) Right Stuff. I come home and click my desktop link for the aluminum pan. The pan is suddenly in stock - and now ordered. Todays plans just went a different direction.

Time to scan this thread (of possible glow solutions) and the thread on Pirate for the same - And go see what effects what - And report back.



Troy B
Ft Hood, TX

 

[Fordum]

I figured out how to stop the glow last night. Not too difficult. Unfortunately, what with events occurring around here today, I did not get time to post it.
And now I have forgotten it.
I'll recreate it shortly and get back.
Don't worry, I'll do it, because right now, My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives.

J.

 

[Fordum]

OK, now I remember........

Just move the LED negative wire from terminal 87 to terminal 86. That should do it!

J.

 

[Lunatic]

.....Just move the LED negative wire from terminal 87 to terminal 86.....

Your solution will definitely work - And has also been suggested on the Pirate thread I posted. It would, however, defeat the purpose of the blue LEDs - Indicative signals of the relay being activated.

I thought in the beginning that I was going to use LEDs to indicate when the fans themselves came on - But later learned that (in short order) a speed sensor or something similar would be needed to switch the LEDs on at a certain RPM.

So, I back tracked to the next component, the relay, and decided to monitor that instead.



I checked two things earlier -

The blue LEDs do have voltage to them (12.6) with ignition off, nothing doing anything - Feeds through the fan motors.

The fan motors do generate voltage - I stopped the spinning once I hit 1 vdc.



I have a new question now. IF I were to re-wire, switching the positive circuit (would be the 4th time re-wiring, ) instead - Would there be a readily available solution for the glowing ?

And also - If I leave everything wired as it is now, and grab my blue LED power from the fan power instead of the ignition - What might the effects be ?




Troy B
Ft Hood, TX

 

[Fordum]

Ok, wanted to jump in while you were here. Gonna go eat supper after this one, but will be back later. I have some other ideas.
Converting to positive switching would solve the problem. Sorry about that.
Doing it that way, you would be breaking both sides of the LED.
Just hook the positive lead of the led to 87, the negative lead to 86, and battery supply to 30.
Wiring it this way would cause them to glow like they do now if the relay failed when the temp switch called for fan.
Thus giving you a warning.

Getting the power from the fan lead will not help.

Got a couple of other thoughts for later tonight.

J.

 

[Recon!]

Maybe someone could draw up a new diagram for those of us lost like a mofo?

 

[Lunatic]

I already have the diagram everyone has been seeing - Blank and ready.

As soon as this is figured out - I will update all of them throughout the thread - Im just waiting on a final, functioning (without issues) operating system before I revise......again.




Troy B
Ft Hood, TX

 

[Fordum]

OK, I think the last thing I posted should work. But all it does is tell you that the relay fired, or that it was commanded to fire but didn't.
Not too shabby, but that still does not tell you if the fan is running or how well.

I have some ideas on that.

The simplest way, but not the most accurate is a remote sensing digital ammeter on each fan motor.
You could go analog to match your gauges, but digital is cooler and is a good start on an all digital dash.

Next step up is a remote sensing digital tachometer. It would require a dual display unit if you want to monitor both at the same time, but the inputs are easily switched.
It has the advantage of telling you exactly what your fans are doing, but is tricky.

Easiest way is a reflective photo-tachometer. Stick a piece of reflective tape on a blade, point a sensor at it, and Bob's your uncle.
Course, these days, Bob is liable to be your aunt.......

Downside is, although it can handle some dirt on the tape and sensor, it still likes clean environments.
A better way is a proximity sensor. But, that would require putting a bolt or rivet through a couple of blades.
Not too bad if you have an even number of blades so you can keep it in balance, but you probably don't for noise purposes.

More exotic ideas....

Just as you can do a quick and dirty compression check on a car without pulling a plug by using a recording scopemeter and a DC clamp-on current probe, I wonder if the current spikes that the fan puts out could be detected by a current meter and if they were high enough to be detected.
You would have to divide by the number of poles in the motor, but that's ok

Or a magnetic probe set against the motor.Again we would have to try it and see.

something to be thinking about

J.

 

[Lunatic]

So........ A few things to report today.


Firstly - A solution for the glowing blue LEDs has developed over the last 2 nights. Many thanks to Fordum for taking the time and sharing the knowledge in order to resolve the issue.

A new and final diagram will be shown at the end of this post.


Next, I mentioned having something else in the plans for my fan setup - It turns out this also provided part of the solution as well. I stumbled across a dual circuit temp switch a while back when I was on the BWD website, checking switches for temp ratings.

They run $30 a shot - I paid nothing for 2 at the Pick-N-Pull and even brought home the connector for one of them. The switch turns at 195* and 210*. And it actually belongs in a 1992 BMW 318.


I've also been looking at disconnect switches, for the concern mentioned by BGKYK5 in post #54 - Impacts and/or collisions. This is what I've come up with. I'll spare everyone the boring descript stuff - It is a 500A disconnect, remote and manual switched.

The cheapest I've found the disconnect is $140.00(ish). I'll most likely hit Ryoken up for further ideas being that boats are in his line of work.


I believe thats everything at the moment. I have an aluminum pan on its way, 50' of 10 SXL both black and red already on its way, and a few more items to drop a dime on.


Here's the final final diagram....

Comments and suggestions always welcome.



Troy B
Ft Hood, TX

 

[ryoken]

I should be getting royalties from Blue Seas for turning you guys on to that company ... pricey, but they make nice stuff tho, we where putting those disconnects in the Hinckley's.....

not to go too off topic but,they screwed me recently... they "updated" the ACR i've been hawking in here for years and discontinued the original one i liked.. the new one has better "specs", but i did like the old one... it's still available on shelves, but not for long apparently... the new one is a black plastic box, actually looks similar to that disconnect... I'll probably try it out for my rig....

i dig that dual circuit switch.... didn't know such a beast existed....

 

[Lunatic]

...I should be getting royalties from Blue Seas for turning you guys on to that company...

i dig that dual circuit switch.... didn't know such a beast existed....

LOL - I googled "marine battery disconnect" and Blue Sea popped a response. I'll give you the kudos though - I probably wouldnt have thought of marine anything had I not been reading through your thread so many times.

I saw a therm switch with three prongs and thought, "whats the third one for ?" I didnt know either, until I checked it out. It is, however, a M14 thread FYI.



I figure I'll lead the remote disconnect with a keyed disconnect as well.

I actually saw this idea (just one lone disco) in the Pick-N-Pull too.... A key slot on the outer front fender of a Blazer and thought "huh ?".
Looked closer and discovered what it was. A keyed battery disconnect.

My own however will be under the battery tray, in the fender, pointing down, out of sight. This will serve as anti-theft when Im at the races or such where the Jimmy is out in a field lot, unattended etc.

Some may think "over kill" - Im thinking peace of mind.




Troy B
Ft Hood, TX

 

[ryoken]

yeah, we see LOTS of keyed style battery switches in different styles in the boats...



this style is VERY popular... I'm incorporating one into my glovebox breaker panel....

 

[Lunatic]

I'll be going with a "real" key style for a few reasons.

1. Can go on my key ring easily - And not be a sore thumb.

2. Not sure of the plastic styles like you showed - But it will take some work to turn a tumbler lock without the actual key.

3. Appears to be more solid in design - Being exposed to the environment is harsh on plastic, especially with a tire throwing mud at it.




Leg sore yet ?




Troy B
Ft Hood, TX

 

[BUDDY]

I've just about gotten my dual battery setup all together. (I'm following ryoken's diagram pretty closely), but I'm going to install it all inside my tuffy center console. I'll send all of the cables straight down through the tub & will just turn the switch off inside the console, lock it up, then anybody that wants my truck will have to tow it off to get it. I'll probably also add a removable grant steering wheel that will also lock inside the console.

Later,
Buddy

 

[ryoken]

achy as all heck.... just popped a 700 ibuprofren...


you'd be surprised at what those switches hold up to.. no corrosion issues too... and FAR more reliable than a keyed tumbler... but yeah, mine'll be an interior app, key stowed in my lock box when need be...

 

[Fordum]

BTW, I wanted to ask. Although I think you may have already said, what program are you using to draw those schematics?
Its not any CAD program I'm familiar with. It it that Google Sketchup program I heard mentioned somewhere?

Also what the heck has Ryoken done to his leg??

 

[BUDDY]

BTW, I wanted to ask. Although I think you may have already said, what program are you using to draw those schematics?
Its not any CAD program I'm familiar with. It it that Google Sketchup program I heard mentioned somewhere?

Also what the heck has Ryoken done to his leg??

Looks like they are just using MS Paint. It's cumbersome, but everybody has it.

Later,
Buddy

 

[ryoken]

Also what the heck has Ryoken done to his leg??

I cover it in my build thread....

btw, thanks for asking Troy....

*end gore hijack*

back to our regularly scheduled electrical goodness....

 

[Lunatic]

I lost my familiar photo editor when I moved across to Vista - Fortunately, I never needed to find a replacement (yet). I've been using MS Paint for "this and that" for over the last year now.

Just drop a few pictures on a blank pallet, size em all to each other, and draw lines. Rough in the making but overall fairly clean looking and easy to interpret in the end.


Got my 50' black and 50' red #10 SXL today - Aluminum trans pan shows for Fed-Ex drop tomorrow. Ah, planning the weekend already.....Re-wire tomorrow, wrap wiring up and swap pan Thursday. Pump and direct drive Friday evening into Saturday. I bet it rains....




Troy B
Ft Hood, TX

 

[sloth]

Thanks for posting the wiring diagram.

I have a question. Should the PWR feed for the secondary fan switch actually come from the ACC pole of the water crossing switch instead of ignition power? It looks like you could have a condition where you turn off the water crossing switch but, if the coolant is hot enough, the secondary fan will still run if it is in the on position.

*Edit* I guess maybe you're just planning to turn off both switches during a water crossing.

-Mike