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hot rod 6.2 diesel.

This is a design I found that looks like it will work well for this application. It's a little pricey but hey I guess it is what it is. I'm not sure if I will be running a mechanical fan or electric fans. If I decide to go with electric fans that intercoolers could also be located on the back of the radiator with the outlet coming straight over the engine. It would require a lot more pipe work. Top central mounted the intercoolers would essentially only need elbows to connect turbo straight to the intercooler. Then a soft connection straight to the intake. I like that a lot.

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Vombrown said:
This is a design I found that looks like it will work well for this application. It's a little pricey but hey I guess it is what it is. I'm not sure if I will be running a mechanical fan or electric fans. If I decide to go with electric fans that intercoolers could also be located on the back of the radiator with the outlet coming straight over the engine. It would require a lot more pipe work. Top central mounted the intercoolers would essentially only need elbows to connect turbo straight to the intercooler. Then a soft connection straight to the intake. I like that a lot.

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Which type of fan to run with a diesel really comes down to just one question. Will this truck see any towing of any kind? Electric fans are nice but they just don't move the air needed to keep truck pulling a load cool.

Mounting that behind the rad will have some funky ass brackets. I think running either a engine top or normal front style intercooler will be a lot easier and simpler to mount. Also in thinking about it I'd run a single in/outlet ic, be cheaper and easier to find. For the charge pipes I would run both to one side of the engine bay and have them Y together just before the inlet. Not having a mechanical fan would me you could run the one pipe right next to the rad to crossover.
 
The direction I'm leaning is using a HUMMWV split intake manifold. Weld up a custom crossover for it. This will give me all the room I need on top of the motor. Make a top mounted intercooler easier to place and still provide good flow. Ordered a couple of td04 turbos, header flange and tubing to start on the moch up.
 
That would work. Just remember the hummer turbo intakes use different heads as the bolts go in at angles. The truck heads/intake the bolts go in perpendicular to the head.
 
Got a call back from Bill at Heath diesel this morning, almost missed it as I was walking out the door. Discussing turbo spool times, boost pressure, injector pumps and exhaust headers. This guy has forgotten more than I will ever know.

We discussed the setup, running his cam and Merlin IP. What sort of pressures we could see with the td04 turbos and fuel needs. It's always great taking with someone that is as passionate about diesel trucks as I am. He has a 1100 hp 6.5 in the works, now get you some of that.

The consensus is with the parts selection and machine work I am planning I could easily push this motor well into the 500 hp range if I went with an electronic pump and one of his custom boxes. Not sure I am really wanting that. I mean more is obviously more but to me there is a break over point of reliability. A 500 hp diesel breaks things. The two in my driveway currently eat parts like candy. Hell on the driveline and especially the transmission. With great power comes great transmission. Remember that. I don't think I want to go anymore than 300-350... I can build and maintain a overdrive transmission at that level. Bill sees it as sort of a waste to go that far and not all the way, maybe he's right. He usually is.
 
voice of experience here.
How many times do you want to spend money before you spend what it takes to run his 500 hp build? I've tried cheaping out by targeting a lower hp, in both cases (yeah, I never learn from the 1st time), I ended up spending twice the money for what became scrap - and that one I spent all the money on... still running strong. I know the adage "speed costs money, how much do you want to spend" however, that statement makes the assumption that 50% the money can be 50% of the power. That simply isn't true.

Heath knows his stuff - so my advice is going to be pretty simple. Don't target hp but target what it's going to take to earn the money to simply pay him the first time. Otherwise, you'll have 3 non-runners in your driveway.

And a bonus advice - I know guys who can break rocks in a sandbox, yet others who can make 1000 hp live in front of something smaller then a dana 30. I get your point, but (except in those fun situations on ice when you're committed and nothing but a meatsack) if you can train the monkey between the steering wheel and the seat how to drive - 500 hp really isn't that much to control..
 
We both have different views. Most are looking for the most they can get, I'm not. His main point of contention was basically I was building a 500 hp motor and restricting it down to 300 with a mechanical pump and no electronics. Which is true. My main point was that I don't want the hassle of a computer to control what can be done mechanically. I listen to every word he says carefully, he is the expert. Based on his experience where they thought they were building a 380 hp bonneville truck and ended up with a 600 hp truck almost by accident.
 
It hasn't been mentioned yet but pretty much all crazy hp 6.5 builds use blockcrete. Basically you fill the water jacket with a type of cement to add considerable strength to it. Problem is you have to figured out what you're doing with the cooling passages you still need. Plus you usually have let the block sit for about a month or so with either a set of heads or torque plates on while the cement cures. Then you bore and line hone the block. It's a ton of extra work for a street engine.

I understand what Bill is saying by if you're going to do a build to do it all the way but it truly comes down to what you want. My engine for example has some good speed parts and runs pretty damn good too. Would it be awesome with 500 hp instead of around 300, yes. But it cost me little over 8 grand just to get it where it is. With all the extra machine work needed and other stuff to hit 500 hp I could see it easly costing double what I spent if not more.

I'm a huge fan of the 6.x engines so much so that I want to get one for dd for my girlfriend. However if I wanted an engine that can make a super reliable 500 hp I'd run a Cummins. If fact I actually do. My dodge makes a super streetable 350 rwhp and has for 160000 miles. 500 hp and long life don't mix to well when it comes to the 6.x engines.
 
KirsL said:
It hasn't been mentioned yet but pretty much all crazy hp 6.5 builds use blockcrete. Basically you fill the water jacket with a type of cement to add considerable strength to it. Problem is you have to figured out what you're doing with the cooling passages you still need. Plus you usually have let the block sit for about a month or so with either a set of heads or torque plates on while the cement cures. Then you bore and line hone the block. It's a ton of extra work for a street engine.

I understand what Bill is saying by if you're going to do a build to do it all the way but it truly comes down to what you want. My engine for example has some good speed parts and runs pretty damn good too. Would it be awesome with 500 hp instead of around 300, yes. But it cost me little over 8 grand just to get it where it is. With all the extra machine work needed and other stuff to hit 500 hp I could see it easly costing double what I spent if not more.

I'm a huge fan of the 6.x engines so much so that I want to get one for dd for my girlfriend. However if I wanted an engine that can make a super reliable 500 hp I'd run a Cummins. If fact I actually do. My dodge makes a super streetable 350 rwhp and has for 160000 miles. 500 hp and long life don't mix to well when it comes to the 6.x engines.
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ragged edge is fun until it's not - so much easier and cheaper to make power with a Duramax or Cummins then it is with the Detroit diesel. I enjoy class racing - where every little bit counts, and I enjoy making power with stuff people say you can't (think flatheads), but on a DD? I'm with you, I'd do an engine swap before I spent twice the money to go half as fast.... and let's not forget my screenname.... I have that affliction.
 
superbuickguy said:
ragged edge is fun until it's not - so much easier and cheaper to make power with a Duramax or Cummins then it is with the Detroit diesel. I enjoy class racing - where every little bit counts, and I enjoy making power with stuff people say you can't (think flatheads), but on a DD? I'm with you, I'd do an engine swap before I spent twice the money to go half as fast.... and let's not forget my screenname.... I have that affliction.
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Oh I'm the same way hence the money spent of my 6.5. There is a diminishing point of return as to what an engine can safely handle. Sadly that point is reached kinda quickly with a 6.5. They're great engines when treated right though.
 
I've built literally hundreds of Cummins engines. Mostly mild 350 and under and some well into the 800 hp range. Any monkey with a YouTube video and an afternoon to kill can make 300 hp with a Cummins. It's not a hard thing to do. With a 6.2/6.5? It's just fun. Say whatever you like, I don't care about going fast anymore. Before anyone starts the "just stick a Cummins in it", that's not going to happen. It's getting a good ol GM diesel. That's the topic of this thread.
 
KirsL said:
Oh I'm the same way hence the money spent of my 6.5. There is a diminishing point of return as to what an engine can safely handle. Sadly that point is reached kinda quickly with a 6.5. They're great engines when treated right though.
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don't get me wrong, I'm not pulling my 6.2 unless it's to put a rebuilt 6.5 in it. We're talking money and that's it. I've been in love with the 6.2 ever since I got the disappointed look from some bus rider who got suckered out of the bus shelter and into the rain thinking the bus was coming. The look of utter despair was worth at least 500 hp :)
 
Money isn't really an issue since 90 percent of the work will be done in my shop. If I had to pay someone to do everything it would be a different story I think. The machine work to balance and blueprint the engine I have in the machine shop right now cost me a Detroit locker in a 14 bolt that I had laying here....HAHAHHAAA. I'm lucky in a few things and one of them is knowing the right guys in the right spots. The only downfall is it takes a back seat to paying work and he will get to it when he can. I'm patient, mostly. On top of that I will put about 2k into the engine in parts. Give or take besides the stuff that I already have. I don't feel like it's a fools errand or anything and the truck that I am building for it will make the juice worth the squeeze.
 
Vombrown said:
I've built literally hundreds of Cummins engines. Mostly mild 350 and under and some well into the 800 hp range. Any monkey with a YouTube video and an afternoon to kill can make 300 hp with a Cummins. It's not a hard thing to do. With a 6.2/6.5? It's just fun. Say whatever you like, I don't care about going fast anymore. Before anyone starts the "just stick a Cummins in it", that's not going to happen. It's getting a good ol GM diesel. That's the topic of this thread.
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I'm not saying to pull it and put a Cummins in. I only brought that up as cost to power comparison. Seeing that you have the means to do most of the work yourself does make a huge difference in the cost factor.

It's not a fools errand to build a performance 6.5. I'm just trying to look at it realistically in terms of what Bill Heath told you.
 
Ok check my work,

Without a vacuum operated heater system (1972) and without the need for turbo wastegates, there is no other vacuum source needed on a 6.2. In an attempt to "clean up" the engine and engine bay a good bit I am deleting the vacuum pump, no egr, just a simple crankcase vent, hydro boost braking.....that's about it.

I will add a HUMMV tach drive instead of the vacuum pump. I am bout ready to start assembly of the new block. Word on the street is that it will be ready next week.
 
looks good, looks even better with pictures ;)

to close a loop - I like how you're building the rig you need, not the snowballed rig that, while cool, isn't what you need. carry on good sir.
 
Pics would only show the enormous amount of work I have to do still....HA. Plus it doesn't look like much other than a bunch of seriously greasy parts strewn about. I am measuring motor mount locations on both trucks (84 and 72). Thinking of just swapping the frame stand offs into the 72 from the 84. Comparing the two it looks like the 72 placement would be 3" closer to the firewall than the 84 which is already tight. The 84 frame stand offs are already set up for my motor mounts and should bolt into the 72 with little more effort than drilling a few holes. That would also allow me to use the 84 front crossmember which is a hefty piece. Of course it's riveted in instead of bolted but hey, such is life. That would beef up the frame in the 72 significantly (I think) and give me everything I need to bolt the diesel in. Thank god for a donor vehicle.
 
superbuickguy said:
looks good, looks even better with pictures ;)

to close a loop - I like how you're building the rig you need, not the snowballed rig that, while cool, isn't what you need. carry on good sir.
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This one has been a long time coming. I honestly always wanted to build a stout 6.2 for an older Chevy truck just never had everything come together. With the suburban essentially falling into my lap, then the cheap purchase of the donor suburban with the 6.2 it was an easy decision. All of my chevy's have 6.2 or 6.5 diesels in them so it was an obvious choice for me but I left them all stock. If I ever go into the engine on them for any reason I will make some changes but they all run well. One with 58k original in the 82 and 223k in the 96, no reason to mess with either of them. The 72 will be the toy and my daily driver once finished. So it needs some spunk.
 
my first 6.2, na, lasted 450,000 miles for me and, to the best of my knowledge, is still running well in the vehicle it went into - no rebuild, stone stock.
 
Vombrown said:
Pics would only show the enormous amount of work I have to do still....HA. Plus it doesn't look like much other than a bunch of seriously greasy parts strewn about. I am measuring motor mount locations on both trucks (84 and 72). Thinking of just swapping the frame stand offs into the 72 from the 84. Comparing the two it looks like the 72 placement would be 3" closer to the firewall than the 84 which is already tight. The 84 frame stand offs are already set up for my motor mounts and should bolt into the 72 with little more effort than drilling a few holes. That would also allow me to use the 84 front crossmember which is a hefty piece. Of course it's riveted in instead of bolted but hey, such is life. That would beef up the frame in the 72 significantly (I think) and give me everything I need to bolt the diesel in. Thank god for a donor vehicle.
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the motor mounts should be the same. GM didn't change the location of them with the 73 up body style. With that said, it is a different cross member so there could be some challenge there... that I dunno.
 
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