HP Dana 60 Front in '83 K5

[Blue85]

That was exactly my point, I get cost the arm due to the machine work that has to be done, but for what amounts to a $15 - 4' long pipe nipple (threaded internally), 2 - $30 drag link ends, and a $30 pitman arm. $440-500

How are you going to clear the cross-member? The $30 DLEs don't allow that, so add in the cost of building a new cross-member. No reason you can't use a standard DLE at the steering arm, though. You can even re-use the one from your push-pull drag link. The $30 pitman arm doesn't work either. You need to ream it for the larger "GM 1-ton TRE" taper. That $500 kit probably includes the steering arm, cones and studs, but it looks like you already have that covered - if it's clearing the springs and has enough taper.

 

[AR_K5]

Monday strikes again

Well the steering is on hold at the moment.
My help flaked out on me so I had to pull the transmission by myself. I was being very careful while lowering it to the ground but just as the T-case touched down, the front slipped and caught the top edge on a jack stand and put a 12" crack in the bell housing.

Luckily I found an old retired welder who can TIG weld it for me.

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Feeling a little happier, I scored a full set of brand new Energy Suspension poly body bushings for $50 with free shipping and they just arrived. Wishing I didn't have to wait till I get the tranny back in. It's nice having the extra space to get to the top bolts.

 

[AR_K5]

Ok I got my transmission back from the welder, he only charged me $20 (I gave him $30) since I had it prepped and ready to weld.

And I found my calipers and got some measurements:
The tapered hole in the steering arm measures 0.80" (top), 0.70" (bottom).

Does anybody know of a part number for a drag link that fits it?
I don't know where to look for them by specs.

I still need to get a pitman arm but that end will be easy.

I found out (if needed) I can get solid 10' of round stock for $10-$15 depending upon diameter. But I have another plan I want to try first.

**Soon I'll drop this thread and make another attempt at an actual build thread. I had one all typed out but just as I was about done my computer crashed and it was all lost.

 

[AR_K5]

Ok a called both Moog, and Federal Mogul, both said tie rod ends and drag link ends are THE SAME THING. The only differences are application specifics, and anyone saying tie rod end a drag link ends (in general) are not the same thing is just picking at words.

Their words not mine. So don't flame me, I'm just passing it on.
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I did locate a fairly good spec chart.
http://www.moog-suspension-parts.com/Universal_Outer_Tie_Rod_Ends.asp

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I also called ORU and their part number was 60033 but that was no help since no mfg or mfg part numbers were given.

 

[Fred_M1010]

Ok a called both Moog, and Federal Mogul, both said tie rod ends and drag link ends are THE SAME THING. The only differences are application specifics, and anyone saying tie rod end a drag link ends (in general) are not the same thing is just picking at words.

Their words not mine. So don't flame me, I'm just passing it on.
—————————

I did locate a fairly good spec chart.
http://www.moog-suspension-parts.com/Universal_Outer_Tie_Rod_Ends.asp

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I also called ORU and their part number was 60033 but that was no help since no mfg or mfg part numbers were given.

In general it's a good thing to question what you read online,
but in this case the accumulated knowledge and experience on this forum far exceeds that of most parts guys.
And if you was questioning what was said, you could easily have measured the angle capability on different joints for yourself to verify.


Drag link ends in general are not so different than tie rod ends, yes.
BUT we're talking about Chevy drag link ends now, and that's a completely different story.

On say a Ford or Jeep with inverted T or Y type of crossover steering,
the lower joint almost doesn't see any angle at all, since it's angled 90 degrees.
And on a stock vehicle, the end at the pitman arm doesn't have to take too much angle either.

Old Chevys an Dodges have a very short drag link due to the push-pull type of steering.
That requires an end link with a very high angle capability.
(The dodge has a one piece drag link though, so they are not usably for crossover)

If you just would have went out and measured on your different end links,
you would have found out that a tie rod end only handles about 30 degrees. (And some even less)
And judging by your picture you're already at an angle at the steering arm, so TRE would bottom out in no time.
A Chevy DLE on the other hand handles almost twice the angle.

The list you posted was interesting though.
But for it to be useful, it lacked some critical information.
1. the angle capability
2. the angle of the taper

And I found my calipers and got some measurements:
The tapered hole in the steering arm measures 0.80" (top), 0.70" (bottom).

Does anybody know of a part number for a drag link that fits it?
I don't know where to look for them by specs.

Sounds like the same taper as a Chevy DLE, and since that taper is by far the most common choice for crossover, for earlier mentioned reasons, it is also the most likely.
But don't you have one to compare it to?
I don't feel too inclined to go out and measure on one of mine, since you'll probably just question that info anyway...

 

[chulisohombre]

Subd to see this go through. Don't have much to add except I still have push pull steering and with a raised steering arm and five inch lift it has worked great. Crossover would be awesome but don't have that kind of cash or building skill. I would just just try your idea out and see how it does. If it doesn't work right you're only out a junkyard y link for ten bucks. If it worked on that truck for x number of years, why not yours with slight mods. If you can get a stronger one fôr a hundred bucks and it will be better that's not so bad either. Pitman arm isn't bad price either from what others said. On my buddy's Cherokee the pitman arm I believe had a slight angle to it to connect the drag link end to it when we lifted his. His drop pitman had s little more and would put your drag link at a better angle i believe. It came from rough country. Had a two inch drop and i believe a ten degree or so bend from stock which may get you where you need it to be. It may work but I'm not sure if it will fit a Chevy box.
In the end it's your truck and can try anything to see how it will work. Take everyone's opinion into consideration and go from there. Just be sure if it is street driven its safe so you don't kill innocent woman and children when somethinke breaks driving down city streets. Joking of course. You seem to have that in mind on most of these mods you are contemplating. Every one of these guys you are talking to has done this stuff before so they have experience. They are trying to give you the best advise on what theyve done and what worked or didnt. You may find a way that it works for you that they havnt seen. Thats why we build not buy our trucks. Thats half the fun. Nice looking truck btw. Much better than a crappy half blown engine Honda civic. Lol

 

[AR_K5]

In general it's a good thing to question what you read online,
but in this case the accumulated knowledge and experience on this forum far exceeds that of most parts guys.
And if you was questioning what was said, you could easily have measured the angle capability on different joints for yourself to verify.

I don't feel too inclined to go out and measure on one of mine, since you'll probably just question that info anyway...

Sorry dude, I don't take ANYTHING on blind faith, and yes I tend to question anything I don't full understand, how else am I supposed to learn about it.
If I don't question how or why, how am I supposed to know how to get it right?

Please don't take my questions personal, it's called research, and I might be able to help you with something you don't fully understand some day.

And no I don't have any end to compare angles and such yet. The tre vs dle thing came up by accident because I called Moog with some measurements, looking for a "DLE not a TRE" because of what's been posted here, got laughed at and told "we get this a lot, they are the same thing, there are just many variations depending in the original application". They said call Federal Mogal, so I did, again "LOL... same thing" NOT MY WORDS. I just called to get some part numbers so I could go dig threw boxed at Oreilly's till I found one that worked.

I just passed on their words... oops I guess the tech guys aren't credible here, I didn't realize.

The TRE in the photo, is way too small and not even in the hole straight which is why I said ignore it and just look at the bar itself, but (as expected) that would be too easy for some.

When it comes to design, fabrication, electronics and finding stuff, I'm your guy. Ask me about the inner workings of a transmission, I'll straight up tell you I don't know, but I'll be glad to help you find the right answers to your questions.

I'm not taking what you said as personal (and I'm not upset), even though it was pointed right at me, but I will say this: If you don't like my questions, don't respond. I'm going to ask them anyway. If I don't fully understand an answer I'll ask more questions.

If I give a wrong answer feel free to correct me, but you had better back it up with reliable info, or proof, not urban legends.

I'm raising 3 kids and my wife works night, I don't get a lot of time to work hands on so I do as much research as possible so when I do get time to work on it, maybe I can get it right the first time.

Now can we get back to learning from each other.

At this point, I might post a few pics when I'm done.
Nobody else (that I know of) has this set up anyway, and who know's maybe I'll make some new discoveries along the way.

 

[AR_K5]

Thank you for your input, and I am taking everyone's input in mind that's why I went forward with the 52 swap rather than the hinged shackle idea I started with. As I just said in my last post, I'm just wanting to fully understand why X is better than Y so I get it right the first time and have a factual answer when someone asks me why I did it, other than "some guy on the internet said to, so I did."

Does that make since?

 

[chulisohombre]

II also like to know the why aspect of how and what app makes sence in what I'm doing. It's fine to suggest doing something because it worked for you. I see As a engineer how you'd like to know the whys of things. These guys on here have hundreds and some thousands of hours I'm sure doing these mods in Chevy trucks. So they know their stuff. It Doesn't mean you can't try a new method and maybe find a cheaper easier way to do something. Them the rest of us can try it and see if it works for us. If no one ever tried anything new, we'd all be driving around in lunch box cookie cutter cars and trucks with no lift or mods. Not as much fun. The dle to tre deal is they are built the same way to perform a similar task. But depending in your needs and applicatio with different angles and strength needs, all are not created equal. For them to say that there is not a different name for each is weird. You wouldn't go to the parts store and ask for a tie rod end for your drag link and vise versa.