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Ideas for BB18

When we did the inspection for the I think two years we did it. It was more of a hey bring your rig here and show it to us and we will check it out. We actually found some things that the owner did not know about or see. Rag in radiator, loose bolt come to mind.
It was never a hey your rig sucks you cannot wheel it.
We did have a list of recommended stuff but nothing was if you dont have it you cannot wheel.

Besides its the long as crap trails for stupid breakage reason that make the life long stories.

Think it should be mandatory to have Brandon in any group that runs Golden Spike though. Since he has saved my butt twice on that trail.
 
r3dd0g said:
One of the issues we'll run into though (Wade ran into this) is that the seasoned veterans don't want to do Crack N Back or Fin's N Things. Thankfully Chris Perry hung out as TG for Wade even though I'm sure he would have rather run Rusty Nail with us.

In all reality an "all day trail" for a fairly large Blazer Bash group is a 3-5 hour trail for a seasoned veterans group (barring any of the unforseen issues we've spoken of in this thread). I've personally run Golden Spike in 5 hours with a nice stop for lunch at the crack, the group we ran with this year for Blazer Bash finished Pritchett in 3 hours (top of Yellow Hill). Not everyone wants to go that fast, and I can understand that. That's why for the last few years I've been very picky about who goes with me on the trails I lead.

I'm not sure how we go about finding experienced trail leaders that are OK with taking all day to run a trail, much less 3 of them (lead, mid and tail). I know Brandon and I make a hell of a team for the experienced guys that want to bomb through 20-30 miles of trail and make it back to town for dinner.
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I definitely wanted to do Rusty Nail, but was ok with running crack and back with Fred.

After Scott broke his rear diff, the two of us cut from the group. We headed out so as not to hold up the rest. We got to the top of the hill past Butt Scratcher when we got news of the broken trans housing.
We waited for the rest of the group. One everyone was through Butt Scratcher, Fred and I switched rolls. He stayed with the broken truck and David in the Sub the help lead them while I led everyone to the trailhead with Scott behind me. From that point out, Scott drove out in front wheel drive unassisted. :waytogo:
Now the nextpart was my fault. I assumed everyone understood that with 2 trucks broken all bypasses were mandatory. Well I guess not. The big Blazer 4 trucks behind me broke the rear diff on one of the last obsticals. Fortunately he was still able to drive.

Now at this point I walked back to every truck and made it clear.... All bypasses only......I even hinted to some that I would run over the next truck that took an optional line. lol

All said and done, the broken rigs added about 4-5 extra hours to the day.
 
kgblazerfive said:
When we did the inspection for the I think two years we did it. It was more of a hey bring your rig here and show it to us and we will check it out. We actually found some things that the owner did not know about or see. Rag in radiator, loose bolt come to mind.
It was never a hey your rig sucks you cannot wheel it.
We did have a list of recommended stuff but nothing was if you dont have it you cannot wheel.

Besides its the long as crap trails for stupid breakage reason that make the life long stories.

Think it should be mandatory to have Brandon in any group that runs Golden Spike though. Since he has saved my butt twice on that trail.
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I don't have and will never have an issue with running parts, any trail any time. It gives me a chance to actually use my junk the way it likes to be used.

The long trails with large groups do become long days and it doesn't take much of a problem to make them really long and tough. It's hard to explain the wear and tear of 30 miles on slick rock.
 
kgblazerfive said:
When we did the inspection for the I think two years we did it. It was more of a hey bring your rig here and show it to us and we will check it out. We actually found some things that the owner did not know about or see. Rag in radiator, loose bolt come to mind.
It was never a hey your rig sucks you cannot wheel it.
We did have a list of recommended stuff but nothing was if you dont have it you cannot wheel.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the tech inspections were kinda fun. (Drunk guys with a torque wrench checking ubolts) :whistle::doah: although that was at the bbq.

There were a few rules, iirc, that were deal breakers.
Vehicle safe to drive. Seat belts for all occupants. Roll bar or hardtop. Water and food.

There was one truck this year that I was very concerned with.I'm not going to list names, but with a roll cage that was only tack welded together, it should not have been on anything that could possibly lead to a roll. I honestly wish I hadn't seen it. Made me very uncomfortable.
 
ChrisPerry said:
Yeah, the tech inspections were kinda fun. (Drunk guys with a torque wrench checking ubolts) :whistle::doah: although that was at the bbq.

There were a few rules, iirc, that were deal breakers.
Vehicle safe to drive. Seat belts for all occupants. Roll bar or hardtop. Water and food.

There was one truck this year that I was very concerned with.I'm not going to list names, but with a roll cage that was only tack welded together, it should not have been on anything that could possibly lead to a roll. I honestly wish I hadn't seen it. Made me very uncomfortable.
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Hahaha he had more cage done this year than he did last year ;)
 
ChrisPerry said:
I was worried that the tubes would break off, even with a mild flop. Getting impaled by a 1.75" tube would suck.
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I actually asked him about it and if it was safe even just driving on the trail, he seemed ok with it.
 
The more things change the more they stay the same.

Be prepared, not only for yourself but for others.

Even seasoned guys with V6s break their ring and pinion every now and again.

We wheel stuff breaks. Be cool with it. Be helpful. But if your the guy who breaks be willing to work with anyone who will help. Be willing to split off.

Really just be willing.

I like safety inspections but it's alot of rigs

Having a functional CB is really a big deal.
Communication is key. It can solve many of the issues. Can get guys through an obstacle quicker. Keeps everyone together.

I'd be willing to help out getting CB's working. Or really whatever is needed
 
ChrisPerry said:
There was one truck this year that I was very concerned with.I'm not going to list names, but with a roll cage that was only tack welded together, it should not have been on anything that could possibly lead to a roll. I honestly wish I hadn't seen it. Made me very uncomfortable.
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:yikes: :yikes: :yikes:
 
Justin V said:
If anyone expects to show and not be helped or have to help others, than start you own event called professional moab experts only.
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the_blaze said:
I think have sign ups for the lead, mid and tail gunners, if you don't get volunteers ahead of time ask for volunteers during the drivers meetings. We can stand there awkwardly until we get some leaders but I bet most guys would happily be mid or tail gunner.
For what it's worth I'll be mid or tail for any trail I'm on from now on if it helps. Shit I think the three trucks I'm usually with will take tail or mid gunner with zero encouraging.
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I think there's some misunderstanding here. Those of us with more experience and better rigs are the ones being asked to lead the trails. It's not that we don't want to help you guys through the trails, and to be honest, if it was one on one, I would take absolutely anyone through any trail they wanted me to take them through and I'd make sure they made it through (not necessarily in one piece if it was beyond their rigs/their capabilities). But this is a big group, when your sh*t breaks on the trail, you're not just having a bad day, you're making everyone else have a bad day. Yes some people enjoy fixing issues on the trail (myself included) but some (mainly wives and children etc.) don't like spending all day stuck while someone is broke on the trail. Everyone is at Blazer Bash to have a good time, not everyone thinks dragging a broke rig off the trail and making it back into town at 2AM = good vacation.

I may seem like someone that doesn't want to deal with this ever, but that's not the case, I don't want a large group of people to be held up because of one person. I can't imagine anyone that would think that's cool or even expect it. Also, for the record, if you look at my picture thread my first 3 days of wheeling in Moab had numerous failures (not my rig) and I was done with that by the time most of you guys showed up. It was hot, and spending hours on the trail baking in the sun while working on someones rig gets old quick.

My wife heard a weird clunk on my front axle on Wednesday, even though I didn't have any drivability issues I pulled the cover before I hit the trail on Thrusday (PITA with a double ended ram and panhard...). That's when I found my lovely ring and pinion carnage. I could have ignored it and hit the trails anyways, I may have even been OK, but instead I stayed at camp and got it fixed. If Moab 4x4 Outpost wouldn't have been able to help me I would have packed up my sh*t and gone home after the BBQ rather than have my junk leave me in need of rescue on the trail. When I realized my frame was cracking on Hell's Invasion, I headed back to camp to fix it rather than breaking on the trail with a big group. Same story there. If you know your junk is broke, don't risk holding up a big group just so you can go play.
 
Trail leaders need to be experts. Yes
Mid gunner and tail gunners need to be experienced but You don't need to be a master with insane gear,

You can't let a newb run any of those positions.

Some of us are down there a few times a year and have run hells and other tails more times than we would like to admit but have never led or tailed because we had no idea there was a need (less involved in years past)

The mid and tail are more to keep pace, contact, and spot if needed and assist with issues. (You can find volunteers that are qualified during the drivers meeting with no problem on most trails if absolutely needed)
 
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If you have to split the group, the mid or tail needs to know the trail well enough to get the group through the trail. I would say all 3 positions would be equal.

I'm no master, and insane gear isn't required for any position. Seat time is the biggest upgrade you can do. If you know your rig and you know the trail, you'd be a good trail leader.

The problem I described earlier is that the majority of people that come to blazer bash don't have a lot of seat time, and a good portion rush to get major upgrades done just before they haul their equipment to Moab.

miniwally said:
I already see half a dozen "builds" being revised and redone because of the trip to BB this year. That's great but I would honestly encourage everyone to simply check their rigs over, fix what needs fixing, tighten bolts etc. and go use them. Daily drive it, go on that easy rough road scenic run with your buddies, spend some seat time and keep fixing what breaks as it happens. You'll come to Moab next year a better driver and while you may not have installed that locker, hydro assist, new engine, lift or axles you're actually going to have a solid vehicle under you that won't have those little pesky issues and you'll know how to drive it around all those things that you don't have.
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r3dd0g said:
If you have to split the group, the mid or tail needs to know the trail well enough to get the group through the trail. I would say all 3 positions would be equal.

I'm no master, and insane gear isn't required for any position. Seat time is the biggest upgrade you can do. If you know your rig and you know the trail, you'd be a good trail leader.

The problem I described earlier is that the majority of people that come to blazer bash don't have a lot of seat time, and a good portion rush to get major upgrades done just before they haul their equipment to Moab.
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I see your point I agree I'd hope you have at least 3 guys per trail that have run it more than once.

However if the group splits and you have no mid or tail gunner at all what then?

Mid and tail are responsible for keeping pace and to ensure the group stays together. If there is a break down a small group can stay behind and we can pass the tail gunner role to the last vehicle in line. Who then is responsible for keeping in contact with the leader and mid guy.

Just a suggestion.

I don't see much difference from how it is now other than we would identify specific mid and tail people who have defined responsibility

Maybe throw them a sticker for their time ;)
 
The way I've always done it is this.

Leader, mid gunner, tail gunner. The group doesn't split unless there are problems.

If there is a problem the tail gunner leads out the smaller group.

Mid gunner becomes tail in the larger group hopefully someone can take the place of the mid gunner, but often the group is small enough at that point there is no need for a mid gunner.

The real key to all this is communication. If you rely on the keep the guy behind you in the mirror the group will get spread out. The only way to do this is functioning CB's

No matter what we are gonna get new guys who don't know their rigs or the trails. Totally cool with that. But the trail leader is the boss. He says get out eat lunch we are gonna fix this guy, well that's what you do. He says split into 2 groups that what you do.

The one big problem with getting really experienced guys is they wanna run with buddies. So some more experienced guys might have to not run with buddies in order to have really good tail gunner etc.

I'm willing to put up with some in order to let guys run what and where they want.

And now I'm rambling I think.
 
r3dd0g said:
I think there's some misunderstanding here. Those of us with more experience and better rigs are the ones being asked to lead the trails. It's not that we don't want to help you guys through the trails, and to be honest, if it was one on one, I would take absolutely anyone through any trail they wanted me to take them through and I'd make sure they made it through (not necessarily in one piece if it was beyond their rigs/their capabilities). But this is a big group, when your sh*t breaks on the trail, you're not just having a bad day, you're making everyone else have a bad day. Yes some people enjoy fixing issues on the trail (myself included) but some (mainly wives and children etc.) don't like spending all day stuck while someone is broke on the trail. Everyone is at Blazer Bash to have a good time, not everyone thinks dragging a broke rig off the trail and making it back into town at 2AM = good vacation.

I may seem like someone that doesn't want to deal with this ever, but that's not the case, I don't want a large group of people to be held up because of one person. I can't imagine anyone that would think that's cool or even expect it. Also, for the record, if you look at my picture thread my first 3 days of wheeling in Moab had numerous failures (not my rig) and I was done with that by the time most of you guys showed up. It was hot, and spending hours on the trail baking in the sun while working on someones rig gets old quick.

My wife heard a weird clunk on my front axle on Wednesday, even though I didn't have any drivability issues I pulled the cover before I hit the trail on Thrusday (PITA with a double ended ram and panhard...). That's when I found my lovely ring and pinion carnage. I could have ignored it and hit the trails anyways, I may have even been OK, but instead I stayed at camp and got it fixed. If Moab 4x4 Outpost wouldn't have been able to help me I would have packed up my sh*t and gone home after the BBQ rather than have my junk leave me in need of rescue on the trail. When I realized my frame was cracking on Hell's Invasion, I headed back to camp to fix it rather than breaking on the trail with a big group. Same story there. If you know your junk is broke, don't risk holding up a big group just so you can go play.
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I'm going to come right out and say that it had come across, at least to me, that you aren't/weren't interested in helping the new guys or being bothered by the lesser equipped rigs... I'm over here thinking, Geez, we all started somewhere, does @r3dd0g forget that?

A few people sent me some private convo's last night, we talked about what I said, we talked about the kind of guy you are, we talked about how Moab actually is. I know from past threads how you have been very helpful, and the guys I talked to said you are quite agreeable in person.

I think I have overstepped my boundaries here. I apologize.

I completely agree with you when you say "if you know your junk is broke, stay off the trail, don't knowingly become everyone else's problem."

I have never been to Moab, I shouldn't be so vocal in a Moab thread...

Hopefully next year you and I will get along great...
 
One improvement I'm making for next year - bringing a full trail map. I like to have a large paper map with lots of detail, my GPS, and a compass. This is a good primer, but I like marking up a paper copy. It's the hiker in me. The National Geographic maps have lots of details:

https://www.amazon.com/Bundle-Natio...&sr=8-1&keywords=national+geographic+moab+map

But in a pinch, I wish I'd searched for and found something basic like the jeep kids use.
2015-easter-jeep-safari---moab-off-road-trails-map.jpg

David
 
I use an app on my phone called Back Country Navigator. It has topo maps and I can import GPS tracks downloaded from websites like traildamage.com. I also record our trail runs for future use, like if I want to know how long a trail run took.
 
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