dave w
1/2 ton status
Drivers side is INLET with 3/8" fuel line.
dave w
dave w
CK5
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Just a few wires left...
- Thread starter Clod_King
- Start date
Clod_King
1/2 ton status
Thanks dave.
I thought I was switching it to the correct pathway, but I guess I reversed it... So I am back to square one I guess.
I thought I was switching it to the correct pathway, but I guess I reversed it... So I am back to square one I guess.
Clod_King
1/2 ton status
I got the truck running with the 350 injectors today.
I stuck the spark plugs in the engine without gapping them just to keep junk out of the cylinders when I first got the engine in the truck. So I gapped them today...
I totally forgot about that I never gapped them.
The truck started then. But ran rough. So I took it out for a spin, and it was losing power, and then it would smooth out, and get power, and it would sputter, and backfire, then clean up again...
So I am gonna set the spark timing tomorrow. I just don't know which wire to remove from the distributer to set it accurately. Somebody wanna give me a hint?
And my spark plugs are new, but they are coated with soot. Should I change those again? Or will that affect the performance of the engine terribly? My dad thinks it will burn off if I run it long enough. But I can't right now, so I would personally like to change them to be sure they are not contributing to the problem.
I feel like a moron for not gapping those plugs, AND thinking the fuel lines had to be switched... geez...
I stuck the spark plugs in the engine without gapping them just to keep junk out of the cylinders when I first got the engine in the truck. So I gapped them today...
I totally forgot about that I never gapped them.
The truck started then. But ran rough. So I took it out for a spin, and it was losing power, and then it would smooth out, and get power, and it would sputter, and backfire, then clean up again...
So I am gonna set the spark timing tomorrow. I just don't know which wire to remove from the distributer to set it accurately. Somebody wanna give me a hint?
And my spark plugs are new, but they are coated with soot. Should I change those again? Or will that affect the performance of the engine terribly? My dad thinks it will burn off if I run it long enough. But I can't right now, so I would personally like to change them to be sure they are not contributing to the problem.
I feel like a moron for not gapping those plugs, AND thinking the fuel lines had to be switched... geez...
Clod_King
1/2 ton status
Okay, so I hit everything I could think of right now.
I checked every fuse I could find. I only have four inline fuses (fuel pump, coil power, Computer power, and VSS power). They are all fine. I even checked the fuses in the stock fuse block. Every single one is fine.
I bought new spark plugs, and wires, and a new cap and rotor aswell. And I hooked up the VSS power wire aswell. It all cleaned up the idle. But the engine still struggles when you hit the gas...
We checked the compression aswell. Everything seems alright:
Cylinder 1 =>161 psi
Cylinder 2 =>170 psi
Cylinder 3 =>163 psi
Cylinder 4 =>170 psi
Cylinder 5 =>154 psi
Cylinder 6 =>172 psi
Cylinder 7 =>168 psi
Cylinder 8 =>167 psi
Cylinder 4 is a little concerning, but I think that I just need to adjust the valves for that one. It was my first time doing that, and I think I might've over tightened one in that particular cylinder. But that is still a decent reading I think...
The spark plugs were all covered in soot. Just coated. And the exhaust is still spitting out a light black smoke. It was worse before with the old ignition related parts, but it is still there.
I know the smoke is not burnt oil, the exhaust smells normal I geuss, with an added bit of unburnt fuel.
I only left two wires unsed during the whole setup. The A/C wire, and the transmission lock up wire. And did not cut any wires to any of the sensors.
I'm really stumped now. And I really don't want to take it to a mechanic, but I think I might have to at this point...
Is there anything I should check?
I checked every fuse I could find. I only have four inline fuses (fuel pump, coil power, Computer power, and VSS power). They are all fine. I even checked the fuses in the stock fuse block. Every single one is fine.
I bought new spark plugs, and wires, and a new cap and rotor aswell. And I hooked up the VSS power wire aswell. It all cleaned up the idle. But the engine still struggles when you hit the gas...
We checked the compression aswell. Everything seems alright:
Cylinder 1 =>161 psi
Cylinder 2 =>170 psi
Cylinder 3 =>163 psi
Cylinder 4 =>170 psi
Cylinder 5 =>154 psi
Cylinder 6 =>172 psi
Cylinder 7 =>168 psi
Cylinder 8 =>167 psi
Cylinder 4 is a little concerning, but I think that I just need to adjust the valves for that one. It was my first time doing that, and I think I might've over tightened one in that particular cylinder. But that is still a decent reading I think...
The spark plugs were all covered in soot. Just coated. And the exhaust is still spitting out a light black smoke. It was worse before with the old ignition related parts, but it is still there.
I know the smoke is not burnt oil, the exhaust smells normal I geuss, with an added bit of unburnt fuel.
I only left two wires unsed during the whole setup. The A/C wire, and the transmission lock up wire. And did not cut any wires to any of the sensors.
I'm really stumped now. And I really don't want to take it to a mechanic, but I think I might have to at this point...
Is there anything I should check?
dave w
1/2 ton status
I pasted the information below from the "sticky" on this Forum.
THE ALDL CONNECTOR:
[FONT=Courier New, Courier, mono]---------------[/FONT]
[FONT=Courier New, Courier, mono]| F E D C B A |[/FONT]
[FONT=Courier New, Courier, mono]| M L K J I H |[/FONT]
[FONT=Courier New, Courier, mono]---------------[/FONT]
To Display Trouble Codes:
Run a wire or paper clip from Pin A to Pin B then turn the ignition on but do not start engine. The "Check Engine " light will flash in the following sequence: flash, pause, flash-flash, long pause flash, pause, flash-flash, long pause flash, pause, flash-flash, long pause. This is a code "12" which will always be there and tells that the diagnostic test is working. After this series of flashes and pauses any stored trouble codes will now flash. If you do not see the "12" flash three times, your diagnostic circuit is defective.
Most vehicles will display stored trouble codes, then "12" again.
If you short pin A to pin B; then re-start a fully warmed up engine, you can set the timing to 4 degrees BTDC. Then shut off the engine and remove the short between pin A to pin B. The check engine light will be on with pin A to pin B shorted.
After the timing is set you can check to see if the ECM is getting into closed loop. Re-starting a fully warmed up engine with pin A to pin B shorted the check engine light will flash. If the check engine light is flashing at a rate of about 2 flashes a second, the engine is in open loop. If the check engine light is flashing at a rate of about 1 flash a second, the engine is in closed loop.
dave w
THE ALDL CONNECTOR:
[FONT=Courier New, Courier, mono]---------------[/FONT]
[FONT=Courier New, Courier, mono]| F E D C B A |[/FONT]
[FONT=Courier New, Courier, mono]| M L K J I H |[/FONT]
[FONT=Courier New, Courier, mono]---------------[/FONT]
To Display Trouble Codes:
Run a wire or paper clip from Pin A to Pin B then turn the ignition on but do not start engine. The "Check Engine " light will flash in the following sequence: flash, pause, flash-flash, long pause flash, pause, flash-flash, long pause flash, pause, flash-flash, long pause. This is a code "12" which will always be there and tells that the diagnostic test is working. After this series of flashes and pauses any stored trouble codes will now flash. If you do not see the "12" flash three times, your diagnostic circuit is defective.
Most vehicles will display stored trouble codes, then "12" again.
If you short pin A to pin B; then re-start a fully warmed up engine, you can set the timing to 4 degrees BTDC. Then shut off the engine and remove the short between pin A to pin B. The check engine light will be on with pin A to pin B shorted.
After the timing is set you can check to see if the ECM is getting into closed loop. Re-starting a fully warmed up engine with pin A to pin B shorted the check engine light will flash. If the check engine light is flashing at a rate of about 2 flashes a second, the engine is in open loop. If the check engine light is flashing at a rate of about 1 flash a second, the engine is in closed loop.
dave w
Clod_King
1/2 ton status
So do I still pull the EST wire when I am setting the timing??
And do I want my ecm running in open or closed loop??
dave w
1/2 ton status
Ok, maybe I am mistaken on how timing is set for your vehicle. Some ECM's for some vehicles have the procedure to short pin A to pin B to set timing.
If your vehicle has the EST plug, then find the EST connector ( should be a connector on a tan wire with a black stripe) usually on the fire wall near the distributor or under the glove compartment. With the engine off, unplug the EST connector, then start the engine. I think the timing needs to be adjusted to 4 degrees BTDC, some are adjusted to 0 degrees BTDC. Some extra advance is usually OK with 87 Octane fuel.
The engine will be in "Open Loop" when the engine is first started cold. After the engine is fully warmed up, the engine should go into "Closed Loop". About 3 - 5 minutes of idle run time.
Closed Loop is a very good thing! Closed Loop means the computer is able to keep the injectors and timing working correctly!
Open Loop all the time is a very bad thing! Open Loop all the time means the computer is not able to keep the injectors and timing working correctly.
dave w
If your vehicle has the EST plug, then find the EST connector ( should be a connector on a tan wire with a black stripe) usually on the fire wall near the distributor or under the glove compartment. With the engine off, unplug the EST connector, then start the engine. I think the timing needs to be adjusted to 4 degrees BTDC, some are adjusted to 0 degrees BTDC. Some extra advance is usually OK with 87 Octane fuel.
The engine will be in "Open Loop" when the engine is first started cold. After the engine is fully warmed up, the engine should go into "Closed Loop". About 3 - 5 minutes of idle run time.
Closed Loop is a very good thing! Closed Loop means the computer is able to keep the injectors and timing working correctly!
Open Loop all the time is a very bad thing! Open Loop all the time means the computer is not able to keep the injectors and timing working correctly.
dave w
Clod_King
1/2 ton status
Well I am pretty darn sure it is running in open loop... The engine won't run very long when I bridge the A B pins, but while it did, the CEL was flashing pretty quick.
And I actually noticed it doing that before while I was setting the spark timing. I had to do it twice because the rotor moved a bit while tightening down. But I ran it with the pins bridged by accident after wards, and noticed the CEL wigging out on me, and shut the engine off. That's when I noticed I had the pins bridged still. I didn't know what it meant there, but the engine was warmed up then too.
How would I fix that then?? Is it a sensor I have to replace, or the ECM?
And this is a picture of hand after being held infront of the exhaust tip for a few seconds. Maybe 10-20 total...
I also tried to get a shot of how much smoke is coming out, but you can see the amount of soot built up on the inside of the tip.
And I actually noticed it doing that before while I was setting the spark timing. I had to do it twice because the rotor moved a bit while tightening down. But I ran it with the pins bridged by accident after wards, and noticed the CEL wigging out on me, and shut the engine off. That's when I noticed I had the pins bridged still. I didn't know what it meant there, but the engine was warmed up then too.
How would I fix that then?? Is it a sensor I have to replace, or the ECM?
And this is a picture of hand after being held infront of the exhaust tip for a few seconds. Maybe 10-20 total...
I also tried to get a shot of how much smoke is coming out, but you can see the amount of soot built up on the inside of the tip.
dave w
1/2 ton status
If I was working on the truck, I would get my scan tool and start checking things out.
1. TPS voltages
2. IAC counts
3. Injector Pulse Widths
4. CTS temperatures
5. Knock counts
6. I might even connect an external tachometer on the distributor and verify the RPM shown on the Scan Tool and the tachometer are the same.
Something is not right ... It's just not easy to troubleshoot problems with just a keyboard.
dave w
1. TPS voltages
2. IAC counts
3. Injector Pulse Widths
4. CTS temperatures
5. Knock counts
6. I might even connect an external tachometer on the distributor and verify the RPM shown on the Scan Tool and the tachometer are the same.
Something is not right ... It's just not easy to troubleshoot problems with just a keyboard.
dave w
Clod_King
1/2 ton status
Okay, so I did a little research (internet, and word of mouth), that when the computer stays in open loop, it sets the fuel to one setting because a sensor is not working.
So I did a visual check on all the sensors, and saw that the O2 sensor wire was burnt through, and grounding out... So I removed it and set it up with a new wire, and attempted to clean it out with brake cleaner.
It was a new unit when I had the exhaust installed. But I think I went with the wrong O2 unit in the first place, and I think I had compromised the unit when I left it installed in the exhaust, sitting on our porch...
I read that a bad O2 sensor will produce miss firing, rough idle, knocking, and bad mileage... And I have been experiencing all of these.
The fixed O2 sensor cleaned up the carbon for a little while. There was still smoke coming out, but not black. Alot of water I geuss, looks like steam. But I am geussing it's half burnt fuel...
So I think a heated O2 sensor is need because of how far back the O2 sensor is located on the exhaust system. It's about 6-8 inches after the header meets the pipe.
Thanks again for everybodies help.
So I did a visual check on all the sensors, and saw that the O2 sensor wire was burnt through, and grounding out... So I removed it and set it up with a new wire, and attempted to clean it out with brake cleaner.
It was a new unit when I had the exhaust installed. But I think I went with the wrong O2 unit in the first place, and I think I had compromised the unit when I left it installed in the exhaust, sitting on our porch...
I read that a bad O2 sensor will produce miss firing, rough idle, knocking, and bad mileage... And I have been experiencing all of these.
The fixed O2 sensor cleaned up the carbon for a little while. There was still smoke coming out, but not black. Alot of water I geuss, looks like steam. But I am geussing it's half burnt fuel...
So I think a heated O2 sensor is need because of how far back the O2 sensor is located on the exhaust system. It's about 6-8 inches after the header meets the pipe.
Thanks again for everybodies help.
Last edited:
dave w
1/2 ton status
I agree, heated O2 sensor.
dave w
dave w
Clod_King
1/2 ton status
I got the heated O2 sensor installed just now.
It runs better. Doesn't waste as much gas aswell. And the truck does get into closed loop. But it still misses, and sputters sometimes. Maybe it's the carbon build up.
I think I should take for a nice spin, and see what happens.
But yeah, that O2 sensor really made a difference.
I'll get back to you guys after my drive.
It runs better. Doesn't waste as much gas aswell. And the truck does get into closed loop. But it still misses, and sputters sometimes. Maybe it's the carbon build up.
I think I should take for a nice spin, and see what happens.
But yeah, that O2 sensor really made a difference.
I'll get back to you guys after my drive.
Clod_King
1/2 ton status
Alright took it out for a spin. Not so good...
I didn't go far, maybe 2 kilometers total. But it did shut down on me. It still missed, and backfired sometimes aswell... and sputtered and coughed.
But! It would clear up if you very gradually stepped on the gas. And I mean VERY gradually. Or if it was idling that was perfectly fine too...
How could I check the Electric Spark Timing?? Maybe that could be it?
I didn't go far, maybe 2 kilometers total. But it did shut down on me. It still missed, and backfired sometimes aswell... and sputtered and coughed.
But! It would clear up if you very gradually stepped on the gas. And I mean VERY gradually. Or if it was idling that was perfectly fine too...
How could I check the Electric Spark Timing?? Maybe that could be it?
dave w
1/2 ton status
Maybe the map sensor?
The map sensor needs main vacuum.
dave w
The map sensor needs main vacuum.
dave w
Clod_King
1/2 ton status
Where is the map sensor located on the engine??
I have all my vacuum lines hooked up. All the ones that I know of atleast... Is the map sensor mounted with all those other sensors? I mean on that piece of sheet metal right near the throttle body.
I don't think the engine is throwing any codes right now. I'm gonna check tomorrow. Just to make sure.
I am pretty sure that the heated O2 sensor is hooked up correctly. The black wire to the O2 plug, and the two white wires are for the heating element. I'm geussing that the two white wires interchangable correct? Imean it's just a heating element, I would guess that it doesn't matter which way the power is running through it to work...
I have all my vacuum lines hooked up. All the ones that I know of atleast... Is the map sensor mounted with all those other sensors? I mean on that piece of sheet metal right near the throttle body.
I don't think the engine is throwing any codes right now. I'm gonna check tomorrow. Just to make sure.
I am pretty sure that the heated O2 sensor is hooked up correctly. The black wire to the O2 plug, and the two white wires are for the heating element. I'm geussing that the two white wires interchangable correct? Imean it's just a heating element, I would guess that it doesn't matter which way the power is running through it to work...
dave w
1/2 ton status
Here is a couple pics of a MAP sensor.
Clod_King
1/2 ton status
I was hoping you'd say it was a different sensor...
I pulled all three of those sensors off of a TBI 305 truck. I assume they are interchangable between engines. But I switched that one out for the other, and nothing happened, so I switched them back.
But I did find two decent sized holes in my charcoal canister. THey were both about the size of a kidney bean... They were right where the strap pinches the canister. I guess it got over tightened at one point in time. I don't know who did it, me or the PO, or anyone frombefore that, but I know I removed it during the engine swap, so maybe the removal opened the holes up.
I plugged tem with some RTV, and duck tape. It's a band aid I know, but I don't want to keep throwing money at the engine when it's all experimental right now...
I pulled all three of those sensors off of a TBI 305 truck. I assume they are interchangable between engines. But I switched that one out for the other, and nothing happened, so I switched them back.
But I did find two decent sized holes in my charcoal canister. THey were both about the size of a kidney bean... They were right where the strap pinches the canister. I guess it got over tightened at one point in time. I don't know who did it, me or the PO, or anyone frombefore that, but I know I removed it during the engine swap, so maybe the removal opened the holes up.
I plugged tem with some RTV, and duck tape. It's a band aid I know, but I don't want to keep throwing money at the engine when it's all experimental right now...
Clod_King
1/2 ton status
So I ran the truck.
It ran gorgeously at idle for the first 15-30 seconds. And I hit the gas, and had no stumbling, or misses at all. So I let it run longer, and found that it got progressively worse as it warmed up... I don't get it.
I am wondering if maybe the temp. sensor is ruined or something like that. I read somewhere that if the Temperature sensor is not working right the engine will run prgressively worse as it stays running.
How would I check that? A noid light? Or an Ohm meter??
It ran gorgeously at idle for the first 15-30 seconds. And I hit the gas, and had no stumbling, or misses at all. So I let it run longer, and found that it got progressively worse as it warmed up... I don't get it.
I am wondering if maybe the temp. sensor is ruined or something like that. I read somewhere that if the Temperature sensor is not working right the engine will run prgressively worse as it stays running.
How would I check that? A noid light? Or an Ohm meter??
Clod_King
1/2 ton status
Alright I checked the temp. sensor yesterday, and it is working good. I compared the ohm output to a chart I found online, and it looks to be working right.
So I decided to test the extra TPS I have, and clean the extra IAC I got from the junk yard and install them.
The TPS tested good, the ohms climbed, and sank at a steady rate, and the IAC looked to be in good condition, actually better condition then the one on the truck already.
So today I went out, and cleaned the seat area for the IAC, and tested the TPS on the engine. The TPS looked to work well, but it was a few ohms off of the other TPS I have. I mean the starting and ending points were not the same, but they both tested good.
I started the truck up, and nothing changed. Infact it started a little worse, so I cleaned up the original IAC, and reinstalled it.
I read that bad ECM grounds can cause strange problems, so I went over all the grounds I could in the engine bay. I thought maybe that was it because I had the stock engine lifting loops powder coated at work, and I saw that the magor battery ground sat on one side, and a copmuter ground on the other. So I cleaned up everything, and now the truck won;t start.
How many ECM grounds are there?? I thought there was only the one by the temp. sensor, but the I disconnected it, and the computer retained the code 15 from when I was testing the temp. sensor....
Am I missing a ground that I never knew I hooked up??
So I decided to test the extra TPS I have, and clean the extra IAC I got from the junk yard and install them.
The TPS tested good, the ohms climbed, and sank at a steady rate, and the IAC looked to be in good condition, actually better condition then the one on the truck already.
So today I went out, and cleaned the seat area for the IAC, and tested the TPS on the engine. The TPS looked to work well, but it was a few ohms off of the other TPS I have. I mean the starting and ending points were not the same, but they both tested good.
I started the truck up, and nothing changed. Infact it started a little worse, so I cleaned up the original IAC, and reinstalled it.
I read that bad ECM grounds can cause strange problems, so I went over all the grounds I could in the engine bay. I thought maybe that was it because I had the stock engine lifting loops powder coated at work, and I saw that the magor battery ground sat on one side, and a copmuter ground on the other. So I cleaned up everything, and now the truck won;t start.
How many ECM grounds are there?? I thought there was only the one by the temp. sensor, but the I disconnected it, and the computer retained the code 15 from when I was testing the temp. sensor....
Am I missing a ground that I never knew I hooked up??
Clod_King
1/2 ton status
Never mind. I recall hooking up another ground near the rear of the engine.
But I just went through a bunch of the spark plugs to check for spark. I noticed that they were all pretty intermittant... I don't know what would cause that, but I guess I gotta go through my wires that control the spark. Particularly the one that delivers power to the coil.
But I just went through a bunch of the spark plugs to check for spark. I noticed that they were all pretty intermittant... I don't know what would cause that, but I guess I gotta go through my wires that control the spark. Particularly the one that delivers power to the coil.
