LSX454 swapped 95 BASS burb.

[folkenheath]

As is , I DID modify the 95 one by the way.
Still don't see why they won't swap, but
Wasn't going to put it together and find out the hard way lol.

Good decision, don't be the guy to find out the hard way they don't interchange.

So when you said you chose the firmer one, it's firmer shift not the firmer spring, right?
Because the softer spring gives you the firmer shift

That's not the way it works. A softer spring allows the shift to apply pressure over a longer time and softens the shift. A stiffer rate spring applies quicker reaches full force in a shorter distance faster and firms the shift. And no spring, which is basically a near infinite spring rate, makes the shift the hardest.

 

[shady]

Got the new gasket already.
I'll be heading to the shop in a bit. If all goes well, I'll have it back together and driving today.

 

[imiceman44]

Good decision, don't be the guy to find out the hard way they don't interchange.



That's not the way it works. A softer spring allows the shift to apply pressure over a longer time and softens the shift. A stiffer rate spring applies quicker reaches full force in a shorter distance faster and firms the shift. And no spring, which is basically a near infinite spring rate, makes the shift the hardest.

I don't usually question your knowledge but here I have to question your wording.
I didn't know much about this until this post which prompted me to check a little.
The instructions basically say the more springs you remove the firmer the shift, which means no spring is the firmer, meaning harsh as you said.
So I figured out that the spring is not putting the pressure but holding back the fluid flow that actually applies the pressure.
A hard spring allows a small flow, a softer spring allows more flow which means firmer shift.
And no spring is not infinite spring rate but no rate and allows full flow of fluid.
Tell me I am wrong

 

[shady]

I got it all back together and drove it.
Works great . Firm but not harsh. Down shifts manually now, but lags just a touch when you do. Stock wouldn't let me till I got below a certain speed.
I ended up finding a drill bit in my drawer that was .092. almost dead between the firm and firmest. And I went with that for all 3 holes in the plate.?


Any body notice the minor, but mo-betta cosmetic change I made while it was on the lift.

 

[folkenheath]

I don't usually question your knowledge but here I have to question your wording.
I didn't know much about this until this post which prompted me to check a little.
The instructions basically say the more springs you remove the firmer the shift, which means no spring is the firmer, meaning harsh as you said.
So I figured out that the spring is not putting the pressure but holding back the fluid flow that actually applies the pressure.
A hard spring allows a small flow, a softer spring allows more flow which means firmer shift.
And no spring is not infinite spring rate but no rate and allows full flow of fluid.
Tell me I am wrong

You are wrong.

You are thinking of the spring as a restriction to the flow, that's not how they are used in accumulators, they are used to cushion the application of pressure. The pressure can't be applied until the spring is fully compressed. The accumulator is in parallel to the flow, not in series. The firmer the spring, the less the accumulator piston will move before the pressure is applied, this results in a firmer faster shift as less fluid has to flow before pressure can build.

If you have no accumulator that pressure is nearly instant as the fluid is already in there at low pressure, so the pressure builds immediately.

No spring is nearly infinite spring rate, as it's expressed in lbs/in. If you have 100 lbs/in spring on a 1 sq in surface piston, it would require 100 psi to move 1 inch. If you have a 200 lb spring, 200 psi. If you have no spring, the system can still flex a little, but the flex is minimal and depends on materials, a simple example would be .001" for 1000 psi, which would be a million lbs/in, which for practical purposes we can just say no spring approaches infinity.

 

[folkenheath]

I got it all back together and drove it.
Works great firm but not harsh.

That's the way it should be, what duty cycle you at?

Should be 0% at WOT and 50% or less at idle and ramp it down (increase PSI) with more throttle.

 

[shady]

Right now....
All of it lol.
I have to tone it down.
Think I'm at like 5-10% on the 1-2 for the first 30-40% of throttle.
And everything else is 0.

 

[folkenheath]

That's fine, as long as it doesn't feel too harsh, just leave it higher pressure, it will last longer.

 

[shady]

I might try 25 for 1-2 for first 30-40% tps and see how that goes.
It'll chirp tires if I'm in it. But down low it's not HARSH, but it'll kind of jerk you a little. No where near like it used to be though.

I did figure bout that the 2-1 manual down shift will still only shift when I get slow enough for it to be happy. Which blows. But oh well.
I used to be able to cruise about 25 in second, drop it to 1st and mash it. It'd lift the front to the limits of the suspension travel and hold it there... No reaching the dash type chit lol.
Was fun for showing off during rides.
Oh well.

 

[centexk5]

I might try 25 for 1-2 for first 30-40% tps and see how that goes.
It'll chirp tires if I'm in it. But down low it's not HARSH, but it'll kind of jerk you a little. No where near like it used to be though.

I did figure bout that the 2-1 manual down shift will still only shift when I get slow enough for it to be happy. Which blows. But oh well.
I used to be able to cruise about 25 in second, drop it to 1st and mash it. It'd lift the front to the limits of the suspension travel and hold it there... No reaching the dash type chit lol.
Was fun for showing off during rides.
Oh well.

Think I figured out how your last transmission gave out.

 

[shady]

It was on its way out before that lol

 

[folkenheath]

Was there a mod for "holding manual low" in your kit? That usually fixes that.

 

[Blue85]

So when you said you chose the firmer one, it's firmer shift not the firmer spring, right?
Because the softer spring gives you the firmer shift

That's not the way it works. A softer spring allows the shift to apply pressure over a longer time and softens the shift. A stiffer rate spring applies quicker reaches full force in a shorter distance faster and firms the shift. And no spring, which is basically a near infinite spring rate, makes the shift the hardest.

I think you're talking about 2 different things. The big orange spring, that's an accumulator and it works just how @folkenheath is saying. Since the orange spring is for the 1-2 accumulator, it affects only the first shift. The little blue springs that @imiceman44 responded to are in the accumulator control valve, which regulates the backpressure to the accumulators and affects all 3 upshifts. Apparently as it travels inward, more backpressure is applied, so the lighter spring rate makes the shifts firmer.

 

[folkenheath]

I think you're talking about 2 different things. The big orange spring, that's an accumulator and it works just how @folkenheath is saying. Since the orange spring is for the 1-2 accumulator, it affects only the first shift. The little blue springs that @imiceman44 responded to are in the accumulator control valve, which regulates the backpressure to the accumulators and affects all 3 upshifts. Apparently as it travels inward, more backpressure is applied, so the lighter spring rate makes the shifts firmer.

So you are saying we are both right....that makes sense and explains why we were both sure we were correct, ha ha.

Also, we were both wrong, if he was referring to that particular spring, I was wrong, I thought he was talking about accumulator springs in general. But they still don't use the spring as a restriction, that is usually done by the orifices, and the system pressure adjusted by the pressure regulator spring(s) and the force motor.

Good kits will usually replace the pressure spring(s), not to increase the max pressure, but to change the curve so you have more pressure at low throttle while still reaching a similar max pressure.

I also wonder if his trans guy got a leak between the boost valve and the standard pressure control circuit. The boost valve is made for reverse only and can have presssure's over 300 psi, I wonder what would happen if that pressure got where it wasn't supposed to, it might cause the damage he was seeing, then again, I would think they would have more than a 2x safety factor, so maybe it was something else.

 

[shady]

Was there a mod for "holding manual low" in your kit? That usually fixes that.

Nope, didn't say anything about that.

Just said drill these 2 holes, change the springs mentioned, and install a pressure relief plate/plunger over one of the drilled holes.
That was basically it.

Funny part is.......
When I got all done, I got the valve body in, torqued down, all good, put the pan bolts in, torqued down, then walked over to the table and seen the boost valve package that goes in the pump...

Quickly take the pan off and try to get that in, which didn't wanna go.
THEN put it all back together again lol.

At this point I want a gasket like the stock one that has raised rubber and a stiff ring with anti crush discs at the bolts.

I now understand why the transmission guy didn't change the stock one when he rebuilt the other for me. Its a GREAT gasket design.

 

[shady]

Think my temporary trans is dieing.
It doesn't take much driving for it to get high temps. But it doesn't feel like it's slipping at all.

I seen it hit 190 and had climbed about 10* to that in a matter of maybe a minute or two.
I stopped looking at it and turned around for the shop at that point.
Wasn't far away.

I noticed it climbing like a bastard in traffic a few days back. And thought I had the wrong fan coming on first.
Turns out that was not it. So I'm p*ssy footing it around when I drive it now. Just gotta get to winter.

I believe the new transmission and converter are being built already.

 

[folkenheath]

It may run hotter around town than it will with the converter locked down the highway. 190 is no big deal.

 

[shady]

It was just at 196 after a drive across town and back.
Odd part is, it never used to get that hot

 

[shady]

I'm wondering if it's that filter I put on it causing a flow issue or something.

Also, I noticed a pretty decent oil leak right under the oil pan today. Like under the middle of the oil pan. I'm suspecting the remote filter lines.

 

[shady]

Oh..... One more thing.

I replaced the lower driver's seat for now since I have no idea when I'll get seats for it lol.